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Showing Original Post only (View all)"People Who Urge Calm Over NSA Spying Make Me Nervous" [View all]
http://www.fair.org/blog/2013/06/25/people-who-urge-calm-over-nsa-spying-make-me-nervous/People Who Urge Calm Over NSA Spying Make Me Nervous
Posted by Jim Naureckas
"There are reasons to be concerned about intelligence-agency overreach, excessive secrecy, and lack of transparency," wrote Hendrik Hertzberg in a New Yorker piece (6/24/13) about NSA surveillance revelations. "But there are also reasons to remain calm."
It's his reasons to remain calm that make me nervous.
"They have not put the lives of tens of millions of Americans under 'surveillance' as that word is commonly understood," Hertzberg writes; with "every American's phone calls," the government is merely recording "the time and the duration of the calls, along with the numbers and, potentially, the locations of the callers and the called."
Really? If government agents followed Hertzberg around, keeping tabs on where he went and how long he stayed there, and entering these facts into a government database, I would think he would acknowledge that he was under surveillanceeven if the agents didn't get close enough to overhear his conversations. Likewise, if the government had a record of who was contacting whom through the mailwho, for example, was getting a periodical-rate mailing from the New Yorker every weeksurely this would be understood to be a surveillance program.
But, Hertzberg reassures, none of the info the NSA collects on every phone call is "ever seen by human eyes except in the comparatively tiny number of instances in which a computer algorithm flags one for further examination, in which caseat least, since 2008a judicial warrant is legally required."
So unless your pattern of phone calls are deemed to be somehow suspiciousand who know what that means, because, as Hertzberg stresses, they're looking for people who are calling "unknown, unsuspected terrorists"the government won't go to a secret Star Chamber to get rubber-stamp approval to listen in on your actual conversations. This is what Hertzberg means when he says, "From what we know so far about these NSA programs they have been conducted lawfully." Feel reassured yet?
Hertzberg goes on to say of NSA spying programs:
The threat that they pose to civil liberties, such as it is, is abstract, conjectural, unspecified. In the roughly seven years the programs have been in place in roughly their present form, no citizen's freedom of speech, expression or association has been abridged by them in any identifiable way. No political critic of the administration has been harassed or blackmailed as a consequence of them.
It's a defense often made of NSA surveillance, and it's peculiar: It's as if it's not possible for the government to violate people's Fourth Amendment rights (to be protected against "unreasonable searches and seizures"
In reality, of course, our civil liberties are violatedconcretely, certainly and specificallywhenever we are subjected to an unreasonable search, which is to say one that is conducted without a judge having been convinced to warrant that there is probable cause to believe that we've done something wrong. It's not OK for the government to sneak into our homes just to have a look aroundeven if they don't use what they saw there to mess with us.
88 replies
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There are plenty of people here willing to give up my privacy for their security.
L0oniX
Jun 2013
#2
While yer at ...it let me know when they keep the other driver from risking my life.
L0oniX
Jun 2013
#9
It could be a 911every day and a Benghazi every night and I would *STILL* say abolish the NSA
The Green Manalishi
Jun 2013
#18
And if they gave up their privacy to save 200 children what would they be leaving
snappyturtle
Jun 2013
#51
Either the Constitution is worth dying for or it isn't. I take it that you
snappyturtle
Jun 2013
#67
I've said what I wanted to say. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
snappyturtle
Jun 2013
#75
Calm should return, reasonable thinking would indicate it would not be necessary to follow the calls
Thinkingabout
Jun 2013
#3
Perhaps I do not choose to be a part of occupy, would you be comfortable with me suggesting you
Thinkingabout
Jun 2013
#56
Perhaps you did not read the previous information, I dont care if you do or do not actively
Thinkingabout
Jun 2013
#72
Just because I am not an active participant in occupy does not mean I am not
Thinkingabout
Jun 2013
#84
My calls are not "wonderful"... but my phone may have been tapped in the 1980's, anyway.
deurbano
Jun 2013
#32
The point is that the government can chart all of your contacts and who they
JDPriestly
Jun 2013
#37
Well, that's being reasonable and implies people will be proactive. Ranting w/your hair on fire
KittyWampus
Jun 2013
#10
With persuasion? For most politicans, what's more persuasive than money?
AnotherMcIntosh
Jun 2013
#25
Gee wiz, that's why some of us elect Wyden and Merkley who have been along
Bluenorthwest
Jun 2013
#45
I'm sorry to disagree with you in that I think you make quite a few inferences
Skidmore
Jun 2013
#47
Our past two administrations seem to be working to realize Mussolini's Dream in America
panzerfaust
Jun 2013
#23
The activities that are already illegal under 18 U.S.C. § 2511 should be prosecuted. n/t
AnotherMcIntosh
Jun 2013
#24
I just read a stirring section on the patriotism and willingness to serve of US servicemen and
JDPriestly
Jun 2013
#40
And it was panic that gave birth to the Patriot Act and all of this crap. Fear.
Bluenorthwest
Jun 2013
#46
Are you saying the PATRIOT Act wasn't written and passed in a "climate of fear"?
Fumesucker
Jun 2013
#66
There is a history of the FISA Courts all should understand, it is here to
Thinkingabout
Jun 2013
#78
Previously to the FISA Act whoever was the presidemt could get the wiretaps without
Thinkingabout
Jun 2013
#83
You may be correct in arguing with those infatuated with non truths, just like "scandals" of recent
Thinkingabout
Jun 2013
#88
I certainly do not advocate running out in a panic, but clearly there has been
geckosfeet
Jun 2013
#81