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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
5. What FDR said.
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 02:33 AM
Jun 2013

“The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerated the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power.”

What Mussolini said and what Bertram Gross said also play into what fascism has become.

So much Corporate influence on our government. I'm not sure who is running things anymore. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #1
Banksters plus secret inside information is Wall Street on the Potomac. Octafish Jun 2013 #3
I guess ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #47
I agree too, 1StrongBlackMan. Reasoned arguments. That's what I looking for. Not hyperbole. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #58
Can you think of any instance in which broad, domestic spying in a country JDPriestly Jun 2013 #142
East Germany was a (non-fascist) surveillance state. Chef Eric Jun 2013 #155
Agreed. They moved beyond surveillance to repression, but JDPriestly Jun 2013 #186
Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #187
I think your post used fascism. I could be wrong. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #189
I agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #191
We need more transparency about this program than we have. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #229
"What kind of democracy needs this much secrecy?" Enthusiast Jun 2013 #56
You forgot secret, unaccountable, and extra-judicial executions. nt Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #204
That kind of secrecy contradicts democracy. delrem Jul 2013 #228
No it's not ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #2
What FDR said. Octafish Jun 2013 #5
Said the man responsible for Japanese internment camps loyalsister Jun 2013 #57
Here's another example of a well-reasoned, well thought-out argument. Thank you!!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #59
Be prepared, I have been told lately that the Constitution is not the law of the land. That sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #216
IMHO, FDR was the best president we've ever had, but he made mistakes. Horrible mistakes!!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #220
That is a lack of historical context speaking. Pholus Jul 2013 #233
Don't think I'm naive about the history of the New Deal. I'm not suggesting that there NEVER Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #239
Sorry, I didn't get your entire argument then. Pholus Jul 2013 #252
Link to where any DUer called FDR the worst president ever. zappaman Jun 2013 #222
We may understand the action hootinholler Jun 2013 #82
"we have the benefit of hindsight" loyalsister Jun 2013 #116
I can only show you the well hootinholler Jun 2013 #126
I'm not afraid loyalsister Jun 2013 #131
Logic doesn't mean correct. hootinholler Jun 2013 #146
We are far more likely to die for lack of Health Care in this country than from a terror attack. The sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #224
Is it possible loyalsister Jul 2013 #225
and in protest, you're giving up your social security benefits, right? frylock Jun 2013 #183
Yeah that's what I said loyalsister Jun 2013 #210
"I think most people understand that action based on the conditions." - no delrem Jul 2013 #227
No? loyalsister Jul 2013 #241
How is this private power stronger than the Democratic State? treestar Jun 2013 #72
You have an illusion of democracy. An inverted totalitarianism. Fuddnik Jun 2013 #158
I think you and I are probably breaking on opposite sides of the NSA issues, but I wanted HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #177
Fascism is the merging of corporatism with the state,. private control, not a single dictator. Civilization2 Jun 2013 #206
Labels are a tricky thing and defining labels trickier still. Robert O. Paxton, in HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #232
words are defined through usage,. not one mans opinion. Civilization2 Jul 2013 #236
You argue that Bush's voluntary relinquishing of power means nothing because said power HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #240
Fact is they don't have to whisk us off to a gulag,. so why bother. They are confidant that,. Civilization2 Jul 2013 #245
Naturally, the corporatists here will be not only denying that definition, and using strawmen Zorra Jun 2013 #81
The Earth IS flat! randome Jun 2013 #86
That's what Thomas Friedman says. Octafish Jun 2013 #98
Actually to do anything usefull in GIS systems hootinholler Jun 2013 #148
Ah-ha! The Flat Earthers were right all along! randome Jun 2013 #156
true that. blackspade Jun 2013 #169
Or maybe you should Phlem Jun 2013 #6
It's defined perfectly in a post above here. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #136
you mean this? Phlem Jun 2013 #154
The post was ABOVE, you did not read it. You know what you know that's for sure. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #182
There are several posts above including the OP. Phlem Jun 2013 #199
Do you know... OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #13
I'll take Oct's over hers any day. snot Jun 2013 #22
Just noticed a similarity in writing. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #24
or the same database Skittles Jun 2013 #26
Or chair. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #27
I don't think those two are the same Skittles Jun 2013 #28
"by-the-rules"? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #190
yes; Pro sticks to a formula Skittles Jun 2013 #193
Oh ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #194
but it is suspect to always, ALWAYS be in the same mode Skittles Jun 2013 #198
Who gives a shit about a DUer who doesn't measure up to your standards? randome Jun 2013 #217
WTF are YOU talking about?? Skittles Jun 2013 #218
But what if the dish was tender, flavorsome and made wonderful gravy? delrem Jul 2013 #230
STOP IT DELREM Skittles Jul 2013 #231
Or staff. Fuddnik Jun 2013 #159
See ...you found a use for the NSA ...find out if they are the same person. L0oniX Jun 2013 #125
Wow ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #45
Its not ProSense, there is no blue links. darkangel218 Jun 2013 #130
Mussolini himself described it best Fuddnik Jun 2013 #157
Stasi is a very apt comparison. If I remember it right, truedelphi Jun 2013 #166
And the NSA is part of the Defense Department too neverforget Jun 2013 #4
Fed...managed and operated... Octafish Jun 2013 #7
There's a lot of money to be made in security, intelligence and war. neverforget Jun 2013 #9
The Bush disaster family, everywhere you look, everywhere something stinks, every time you follow Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #11
Thanks, Fire Walk With Me. Absolutely. Here's new URL... Octafish Jun 2013 #18
+1000! snot Jun 2013 #20
Excellent, thank you very much! n/t Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #23
Excellent, thank you. sibelian Jun 2013 #37
Mandatory kick for mentioning LOMBARDI! Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #52
+1 leftstreet Jun 2013 #73
Thank you, Fire Walk, for ALL your excellent work. snot Jun 2013 #21
+1 Octafish Jun 2013 #108
True, but ignorance is so blissful. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #164
The Carlyle Group just bought Getty Images siligut Jun 2013 #201
It is the dawning of the age of the perilous download. Octafish Jun 2013 #202
Making the Internet a dangerous place to be is their only recourse siligut Jun 2013 #213
WHAT!? Oh shit. Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #209
The Secretary of Defense is the author of HAVA. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #14
that pesky cabinet of rivals approach bobduca Jun 2013 #44
Except Lincoln's cabinet of rivals were truebluegreen Jun 2013 #215
We didn't do this when we had actual enemy agents here during WWII. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #17
A point lost on many. Thank you. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #61
Ike saw it coming.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #95
Didn't do what? Collect phone metadata records? randome Jun 2013 #83
Do you honestly believe there wasn't a drive back then to collect info on EVERYONE? Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #91
Much of this debate hinges on how technology has changed the landscape. randome Jun 2013 #93
It's the ATTITUDE. The tools are irrelevant.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #101
K&R! Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #8
''Money trumps peace.'' -- George Walker Bush*, ''president'' of the United States, Feb. 14, 2007 Octafish Jun 2013 #128
Save your energy, consumers! johnnyreb Jun 2013 #10
Outstanding poem, yours, johnnyreb! Thank you. Octafish Jul 2013 #249
Okay, it's fascism. It's been fascism for 12 years. You just noticed? ucrdem Jun 2013 #12
i remember a guy who persuaded me to vote for him - truedelphi Jun 2013 #32
They've been linked to that, and the Duggan case a thousand times treestar Jun 2013 #74
He doesn't seem to understand any of the issues and instead erects a strawman. reusrename Jun 2013 #87
What issues does he not understand? What strawman? ucrdem Jun 2013 #99
Correct, it is a strawman construction. reusrename Jun 2013 #122
This is all very nice but read the piece. All three of your "primary concerns" are addressed, ucrdem Jun 2013 #129
Erroneous? reusrename Jun 2013 #141
That's great! StevenLeser is a excellent DUer! Octafish Jul 2013 #250
Hitler or Stalin, Right or Left matters not. This is Police State Authoritarianism. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #15
Don't doubt, the genesis of this can be traced. delrem Jun 2013 #16
We should acknowledge the existence of a "shadow government" that transcends administrations. reusrename Jun 2013 #48
Iran-Contra was a breakthrough. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #65
Lawbreaking is the new technology. reusrename Jun 2013 #69
Now we have a fraud-based economy marions ghost Jun 2013 #114
Your fraud is my freedom of speech. reusrename Jun 2013 #119
It's frightening, pathetic, laughable that this even needs to be said. snot Jun 2013 #19
Agree, totally. That's why I spend time posting on DU. Most people have no idea... Octafish Jun 2013 #163
Jean Seberg was hounded by the FBI and blacklisted by Hollywood SleeplessinSoCal Jun 2013 #25
She was treated like trash, like public enemy #1. Monstrous. Judi Lynn Jun 2013 #34
You're welcome. I think it's worth spreading around. SleeplessinSoCal Jun 2013 #178
Very interesting. Thank you, SleeplessinSoCal......nt Enthusiast Jun 2013 #67
I recall that she committed suicide, but had no idea about the circumstances and what might have SleeplessinSoCal Jun 2013 #175
This is really odd. After posting this yesterday, Cinemoi was removed from our lineup SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2013 #259
Whats insane is that some are okay with it. darkangel218 Jun 2013 #29
+1 HiPointDem Jun 2013 #30
It is fascism, with a lack of opposition from virtually all of our politicians. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #31
Yes, and some here have agreed with me tht it is all truedelphi Jun 2013 #33
I think the trend is to try to wield power vigorously, to show the US American people Judi Lynn Jun 2013 #35
The fact that you are freely complaining about it here... brooklynite Jun 2013 #36
Does "Freely complaining" really mean free speech? fasttense Jun 2013 #40
And how has your ability to "petition and organize" been affected? brooklynite Jun 2013 #43
It's precisely Fascism. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #76
Then organize and petition for redress of wrongs treestar Jun 2013 #75
How? NSA watches, FBI disrupts, CIA assassinates... Octafish Jun 2013 #106
You are really afraid to organize and petition for redress of wrongs treestar Jun 2013 #112
Obviously you have never tried to organize and petition marions ghost Jun 2013 #117
Petty personal issue you are making of it treestar Jun 2013 #120
"Lots of political activists and groups..." marions ghost Jun 2013 #127
that's pretty vague treestar Jun 2013 #132
I'm suggesting you talk to someone whose face you can see marions ghost Jun 2013 #149
Glad you've noticed. I've posted on this topic on DU since September 12, 2001. Octafish Jun 2013 #121
So what has happened to you treestar Jun 2013 #123
What posts of mine in the Creative Speculation forum? Octafish Jun 2013 #135
"as fewer DUers can see them' zappaman Jun 2013 #139
Traffic. More eyeballs on General Discussion. Octafish Jun 2013 #144
Nope. zappaman Jun 2013 #145
It suggests a dictablanda nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #50
Philippines 1971-1975 brooklynite Jun 2013 #63
Nope, think Mexico nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #66
Brooklynite lived in a dictatorship treestar Jun 2013 #78
isn't a dictatorship different than fascism? Phlem Jun 2013 #160
Like this Phlem Jun 2013 #161
Thanks for that perspective treestar Jun 2013 #77
BTW-forgot to mention the curfew and the military checkpoints brooklynite Jun 2013 #90
+1000 Narkos Jun 2013 #53
Do you even know the meaning of Fascism? DCBob Jun 2013 #38
Here, from the horses's mouth nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #49
i see that now and for the last 50 years. tomp Jun 2013 #51
Well said! nt Enthusiast Jun 2013 #79
"fool people into thinking they're free".. actually.. DCBob Jun 2013 #109
Well, that's a relief, isn't it? sibelian Jul 2013 #251
100% agree nt temmer Jul 2013 #244
That's a pretty lame definition... nebenaube Jun 2013 #92
take it up with Merriam-Webster. DCBob Jun 2013 #110
Which edition? nebenaube Jun 2013 #151
You think it's bad now, just wait a decade or two eShirl Jun 2013 #39
Show us the evidence that NSA runs a domestic spy op. randome Jun 2013 #41
Forgot so soon? Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #84
I made my response about Binney, who has been out of the NSA picture for some time. randome Jun 2013 #100
He said that that "capability" was USED ON HIM! Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #104
Where does he say that? I don't see it. randome Jun 2013 #113
Quote from the first link... Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #143
No, you show they aren't because based on human history you are the one actually making the TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #234
More transparency, less secrecy. That's what we need. randome Jul 2013 #237
It's all good. They just do it to protect us. RedCappedBandit Jun 2013 #42
knr forestpath Jun 2013 #46
No, that is YOUR opinion Narkos Jun 2013 #54
True. Absolutely true. Based on FACT. Octafish Jun 2013 #195
Opinion pieces, conspiracy theories Narkos Jun 2013 #203
So, you didn't use the Google? Octafish Jun 2013 #205
No need. You think America is the 4th Reich? Narkos Jun 2013 #208
Loot. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #55
The NSA is the least of it. baldguy Jun 2013 #60
I always refer to Dr. Lawrence Britt's 14 characteristics of fascism... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #62
Used to see that a lot during Bushco post 911 treestar Jun 2013 #80
The Logic of the Surveillance State -->> nashville_brook Jun 2013 #64
Paranoia strikes deep moondust Jun 2013 #68
I think we can cite several preemptive raids nebenaube Jun 2013 #94
You mean crowd control? moondust Jun 2013 #96
actually, it was... nebenaube Jun 2013 #111
Good find treestar Jun 2013 #184
we're not there yet but neverforget Jun 2013 #70
That is known as global plutonomy and plutarchy. Zorra Jun 2013 #71
Even the old style fascism only exploited nationalism as a means to power. kenny blankenship Jun 2013 #89
Very well said, thanks. nt Zorra Jun 2013 #103
But it's the Good Kind! kenny blankenship Jun 2013 #85
See Details On PRISM Tasking And Sources Here cantbeserious Jun 2013 #88
It's another step towards fascism, yes. Apophis Jun 2013 #97
Some of us keep missing the foreign targets part of this. Progressive dog Jun 2013 #102
You might find this Democracy Now interview interesting. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #150
You might want to see when Binney last had access to the policies Progressive dog Jun 2013 #165
It's such a drag when Amy Goodman interviews irrelevant people just for the hell of it. n/t Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #172
Yes it is nt Progressive dog Jun 2013 #192
K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #105
Corruption marions ghost Jun 2013 #107
It is FUCKING FASCISM ~nt~ b.durruti Jun 2013 #115
How will the Facists running our government run a single payer health care system? JoePhilly Jun 2013 #118
Its already happening. darkangel218 Jun 2013 #133
You and Sarah Palin agree on 'death panels?' leftstreet Jun 2013 #147
Apparently they are going to ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #152
Really? zappaman Jun 2013 #124
Frank Zappa, Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky once got a few seconds to talk about it on TV. Octafish Jun 2013 #140
Clear? On the Road Jun 2013 #134
I should have included a link... Octafish Jun 2013 #179
B-b-b-but it's LEEEEEEEEGAL!!! backscatter712 Jun 2013 #137
Oh, backscatter.... sibelian Jul 2013 #253
K&R woo me with science Jun 2013 #138
Remember how demonstrators in Iran felix_numinous Jun 2013 #153
they want The Evidence... marions ghost Jun 2013 #167
Thanks for responding felix_numinous Jun 2013 #168
IIRC, only 800 people were arrested and only 4 killed in order to put down the uprising in Iran. reusrename Jun 2013 #170
Thanks for the information, felix_numinous Jun 2013 #176
Considerably different system we have compared to Iran's treestar Jun 2013 #185
So far. felix_numinous Jun 2013 #188
But..but...it's "not as bad" Fascism unlike the Republican brand of Fascism. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #162
Progressive fascism is different. reusrename Jun 2013 #171
No it is not, Fascism intaglio Jun 2013 #173
Whew! At least we have a label for it. I was losing sleep trying to think of one. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #174
In general, I like what you write and would strongly defend against HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #180
No it isn't. I don't approve of these programs. But its not fascism. phleshdef Jun 2013 #181
Money is used to suppress political opposition. Octafish Jun 2013 #197
Yet it fails because political opposition is still alive and well. phleshdef Jun 2013 #211
So which of those two parties is going to jail the Wall Street bankers? Which direction GoneFishin Jun 2013 #219
It probably won't happen. phleshdef Jun 2013 #223
It's an illusion of opposition. Whenever the interests of the 1% conflicts with the 99%, the 99% GoneFishin Jul 2013 #235
a new kind of fascism temmer Jun 2013 #196
''Information Overflow'' and few know of ''Friendly Fascism'' Octafish Jun 2013 #200
Chalmers Johnson says we're like the Roman Empire... EVDebs Jun 2013 #207
Have you ever lived under a real fascist regime? question everything Jun 2013 #212
Exactly. zappaman Jun 2013 #214
You aren't paying very close attention are you? GoneFishin Jun 2013 #221
Many rather wouldn't. sibelian Jul 2013 #255
K&R. (nt) Kurovski Jul 2013 #226
Agreed. nt DLevine Jul 2013 #238
K&R! nt raouldukelives Jul 2013 #242
K&R marions ghost Jul 2013 #243
Congratulations WatermelonRat Jul 2013 #246
What part is ''teabagger''? The NAZI parts? The Wall Street parts? The neocon trickledown parts? Octafish Jul 2013 #248
kick woo me with science Jul 2013 #247
bullshit makes terrible poetry. MjolnirTime Jul 2013 #254
It does. So, you're a critic. Please, tell me what's wrong with what I posted. Octafish Jul 2013 #257
Kick And Recommend cantbeserious Jul 2013 #256
K & R malaise Jul 2013 #258
Just knowing some history, not much really Rex Jul 2013 #260
K&R n/t bobthedrummer Jul 2013 #261
kick woo me with science Jul 2013 #262
Kick bobthedrummer Jul 2013 #263
Well said, bobthedrummer. Octafish Jul 2013 #264
They haven't the decency of the Thought Police in "1984" where Inner Party members could turn off BB bobthedrummer Jul 2013 #265
The rest had to leave the Telescreen on. Octafish Jul 2013 #266
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