General Discussion

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)

19. I've said the same from the beginning

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 04:09 AM

Jun 2013

This all by itself indicates that he DIDN'T feel that his life was in danger however he got his injuries. Anyone that believes that they're being beaten so badly that they are about to be killed would not only show injuries in accordance with that but want to go to the hospital to be sure they won't die from their injuries and have them treated.

If he did not believe he needed medical attention for his injuries then he did not believe that he was in imminent danger of death in receiving them.

Self-defense is only justifiable when only enough force to stop the attack is applied and they have a REASONABLE belief that killing the person is the only way to avoid being killed themselves. Zimmerman's light injuries and lack of medical concern for them put the lie to his fearing so much for his life his only choice was to kill Martin. They also put the lie to how he received the injuries.

And if Zimmerman had already brandished his gun to stop an attack or further attack it is reasonable that Martin would be the one with the most justifiable fear for his life and therefore justified in attacking the person brandishing it. I'll never believe that Zimmerman did not draw his gun until AFTER he had received his injuries. The whole point in having the gun was to thwart someone attacking him in the first place by brandishing it. It was that gun that gave Zimmerman the "liquid courage" to get out of his truck, chase after Martin and confront him in the first place. There's just no way that he would not have brandished it the moment he felt in danger of attack never mind in danger of his life. That's what having a gun is FOR.

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Why did Zimmerman Refuse to go to the Hospital after the Shooting ? [View all] JI7 Jun 2013 OP

That is, indeed, a very good question. uppityperson Jun 2013 #1

You are implying that a person actually has to sustain a grievous or fatal injury Azathoth Jun 2013 #2

I think the implication is there is a huge difference between "oh shit! I'm gonna die!" and "oh, uppityperson Jun 2013 #4

The "oh never mind" doesn't occur while someone is straddling you Azathoth Jun 2013 #6

Except the testimony provided under oath Coccydynia Jun 2013 #26

What trial are you watching? All the state eyewitnesses put the man in a dark shirt (Trayvon) shadowrider Jun 2013 #33

I think you are color blind, or perhaps Coccydynia Jun 2013 #34

there is conflicting testimony as to who was on top DrDan Jun 2013 #41

As is always the case. Coccydynia Jun 2013 #43

he does support Z's case DrDan Jun 2013 #47

Most of the witnesses didn't look outside until after the gunshot. Travis_0004 Jun 2013 #42

Holding down the hands of a dead man. Coccydynia Jun 2013 #44

Can't tell the difference between dark red and "dark" colors in the dark. yardwork Jun 2013 #82

One of those witness also claims that Z shot TM three times in the back. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #89

Forensics do not support TM on top. Coccydynia Jun 2013 #90

Isn't that the way Zimmerman is now portraying his injuries? The OP is saying that Zimmerman's pacalo Jun 2013 #5

Zimmerman has always maintained that he acted in self defense Azathoth Jun 2013 #7

Link, please, showing reputable source showing that to be true. uppityperson Jun 2013 #8

Link for what? What did I say that is so controversial it needs to be sourced? nt Azathoth Jun 2013 #10

"he, or at least his family, did claim that his nose was broken, and we now that to be true." uppityperson Jun 2013 #11

Which part do you want sourced? The claim that his nose was broken, or the fact it is true? Azathoth Jun 2013 #12

To simplify, "we now know that to be true". Link? nt uppityperson Jun 2013 #13

I'm not clear what you think I'm making up here Azathoth Jun 2013 #14

Ah, a year old abc story. Thank you. I was hoping for something more like x-rays or medical report uppityperson Jun 2013 #15

So, what does that mean? I didn't break into the hospital and steal his x-rays for you, Azathoth Jun 2013 #16

Why do you act like that? I ask for a link and you get all nasty and accusatory. uppityperson Jun 2013 #17

I produced a credible link and your response came off as dismissive. Azathoth Jun 2013 #18

thank you, that is all I had seen, that it "appeared" but no confirmed diagnosis. They are releasing uppityperson Jun 2013 #21

Fair enough. It seems to me something of a hair-splitting point, though n/t Azathoth Jun 2013 #22

Unconfirmed diagnosis = not accurate or true diagnosis. uppityperson Jun 2013 #24

That doesn't necessarily follow, or at least the 'not accurate' part doesn't follow Azathoth Jun 2013 #28

A PA's unconfirmed diagnosis may or may not be true or accurate but should not be held up as fact. uppityperson Jun 2013 #52

So now a Physician's Assistant is not qualified to diagnose a broken nose? Azathoth Jun 2013 #77

You miss the point. Not without a diagnosis and you seem to only want to be insulting, not discuss. uppityperson Jun 2013 #78

Ah, ok, I get the act Azathoth Jun 2013 #79

Projection. eom uppityperson Jun 2013 #80

if his nose was broken, why didn't he go to the hospital? HiPointDem Jun 2013 #31

And why did he not follow up with the ENT like he was told to? I agree. uppityperson Jun 2013 #51

No evidence that Zimmerman's nose was broken by Martin. None. yardwork Jun 2013 #83

he thought it was serious enough to kill him JI7 Jun 2013 #20

True, and if confronted by a stalker with a gun, I'd be frightened for my life HereSince1628 Jun 2013 #45

Zimmerman thought it was greivous. Sheepshank Jun 2013 #56

But he did sustain the head bashing treestar Jun 2013 #72

There's no evidence, other than Z's own words, that TM did the bashing uponit7771 Jun 2013 #75

His own words might have some bolstering had he gone to the hospital treestar Jun 2013 #76

Because he didn't have a lawyer to do the pre-calculating for him. pacalo Jun 2013 #3

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #9

I've said the same from the beginning TorchTheWitch Jun 2013 #19

because AtomicKitten Jun 2013 #23

So the photos taken by the police that night aren't proof he was injured? n/t Azathoth Jun 2013 #25

I don't trust the police at that particular station. AtomicKitten Jun 2013 #27

people seem to forget(or want to forget)there was the whole problem JI7 Jun 2013 #29

Hat tip to Charles Blow who was outraged by no charges AtomicKitten Jun 2013 #30

Actually, Dr. Fredric Rieders committed perjury about the EDTA. reusrename Jun 2013 #88

I've seen numerous photos of Zimmerman taken that night that look like he is perfectly fine. yardwork Jun 2013 #84

The pics were taken by a neighbor at the scene B2G Jun 2013 #48

Really? Which pictures are those? As I said, I've been busy elsewhere, not following daily and would uppityperson Jun 2013 #53

Joe Manalo took them with his iphone B2G Jun 2013 #60

Thank you, I appreciate it. Off to read. uppityperson Jun 2013 #62

You're welcome n/t B2G Jun 2013 #63

Of course he wasnt in fear of being killed. darkangel218 Jun 2013 #32

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #35

Enjoy your stay. nt darkangel218 Jun 2013 #36

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #38

Not defending Zimmerman, cause I pretty much think he's guilty justiceischeap Jun 2013 #37

I wonder if the 2 mugging you feared for their lives also. Since Z was the one pursuing with the gun uppityperson Jun 2013 #54

That's fair. And I believe that Trayvon Martin felt that he was being mugged or attacked. yardwork Jun 2013 #86

I totally agree but I'm just stating that you can be in fear of your life without justiceischeap Jun 2013 #87

No insurance? Sienna86 Jun 2013 #39

This is an astonishingly silly question. dairydog91 Jun 2013 #40

*If* Martin did slam Zimmerman's head into the pavement. If. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #46

Did they really say that? FunkyLeprechaun Jun 2013 #49

Exactly. It doesn't make any sense at all. uppityperson Jun 2013 #55

Imagine this, you're in an auto accident Savannahmann Jun 2013 #50

Here is where your scenario breaks down"You laugh about the fear, because thankfully nobody got hurt uppityperson Jun 2013 #57

Hardly. Savannahmann Jun 2013 #58

My, was such a reply really necessary to a simple disagreement of part of what you wrote? uppityperson Jun 2013 #59

Absolutely Savannahmann Jun 2013 #61

And rather than civil discussion you stoop to insults. Interesting. uppityperson Jun 2013 #64

A civil discussion requires both people to communicate honestly. Savannahmann Jun 2013 #66

I disagreed with part of what you said, you attacked me and insulted me. Do you want discussion or uppityperson Jun 2013 #67

Your disagreement was an intentional misrepresentation. Savannahmann Jun 2013 #68

Oh. Kay. I agree that adrenaline during an incident makes things different. Time changes. Perception uppityperson Jun 2013 #69

Because he knew... TeeYiYi Jun 2013 #65

Good argument treestar Jun 2013 #70

Several years ago a car driven by an intoxicated person clipped a telephone pole ... spin Jun 2013 #71

Drugs in his system madokie Jun 2013 #73

I can only assume it's because what the cop on the witnrss stand said. egduj Jun 2013 #74

As someone else stated pipi_k Jun 2013 #81

Because he is tough, due to the fact he carries a gun. Kingofalldems Jun 2013 #85

Spam deleted by MIR Team sandieg Dec 2013 #91