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Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)

49. show me one poll that says most people consider Snowden a traitor?

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 10:35 AM

Jun 2013

but that's besides the point. We don't believe in massive surveillance states here - but most of us do believe in universal healthcare - we don't agree that they are moral equivalents - nobody does except right-wingers and born-again authoritarians

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The massive, suspicionless spying is UNPRECEDENTED, and is why many folks object to it. [View all] usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 OP

Now he's Paul Revere? I thought he was John Brown? Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #1

I think it is an interesting analogy usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #14

No, he's Gandhi, MLK, Albert Sweitzer, Daniel Elsburg, & Karen Silkwood, all rolled into one. baldguy Jun 2013 #30

We should cut taxes, shrink our evil government, and then ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #2

You sound just like a tea bagger usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #3

Perhaps, however ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #6

what the fuck do you mean "not sure about you"? DO you EVER hear TB talking about improving gov usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #21

How about this ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #27

Just Stop Your Baseless Insults and Accusations. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #48

Oh. My. God. jazzimov Jun 2013 #116

u2 usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #119

Nice try leftstreet Jun 2013 #5

Can you imagine what the evil government will do when ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #9

They're already killing us off just through costs n/t leftstreet Jun 2013 #10

So we don't support Single Payer anymore? JoePhilly Jun 2013 #12

LOL I haven't seen anyone but you make that comparison n/t leftstreet Jun 2013 #15

One can not logically argue that (a) we now live under a totalitarian government and (b) JoePhilly Jun 2013 #17

Yes, look what Medicare and SS have done to seniors! leftstreet Jun 2013 #18

So you agree with me, we do not live under a totalitarian government. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #20

When did you stop supporting SS & Medicare? n/t leftstreet Jun 2013 #24

Never. I support both. And Single Payer. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #33

That's good to know n/t leftstreet Jun 2013 #35

Well, we want DOCTORS to manage our health care and the government to kestrel91316 Jun 2013 #59

Why trust them in the one case, and not the other? JoePhilly Jun 2013 #77

Are you serious? One is a foreign spy agency looking for evil-doers, the other is concerned about usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #100

you dont seem to understand EMR, ARRA, and "meaningful use". suggest you google more. nt galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #38

this is a progressive board and we don't believe in that sort of thing here anymore than we believe Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #8

Looking forward to the day where our totalitarian government, also has direct access to our medical JoePhilly Jun 2013 #11

oh bullshit. if you think there is a moral equivalency between having a single payer universal Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #16

The same government would be controlling both ... no? JoePhilly Jun 2013 #19

oh for crying out loud. Medical files used for medical reassons are not the same a a national Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #26

Why would we trust them to use our medical files only for medical purposes? JoePhilly Jun 2013 #31

I don't agree with the rightwing view that socialized medicine leads to totalitarianism Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #42

Think some more ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #45

massive surveillance states do frequently lead to totalitarianism - socialized healthcare never has Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #47

Though it does clearly illustrate the absurdity of their claims usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #112

You're making the Ronald Reagan argument. And JoePhilly is the one pointing out how ludicrous it is. baldguy Jun 2013 #44

show me one poll that says most people consider Snowden a traitor? Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #49

U & JoePhilly are making the ludicrous claim that our data is safe & confidential with a SPY agency usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #68

If it's not safe with a SPY AGENCY - whose entire existence rests upon keeping secrets baldguy Jun 2013 #71

Yeah, they are doing a swell job of that usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #73

So you're going to blindly accept Snowden's word that the NSA shouldn't be trusted baldguy Jun 2013 #96

it's not just his word, it's his TOP SECRET documents... usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #97

Does seem strange that the same evil government, which you do not trust treestar Jun 2013 #29

And we'd trust this same evil government with a gun registry. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #32

Another good point. treestar Jun 2013 #50

then you just don't understand how free people in democratic societies think. We believe that Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #40

You are skipping the part where the government would know treestar Jun 2013 #54

I don't actually believe you believe what you are saying. But we can look around Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #58

Nonresponsive treestar Jun 2013 #79

I did respond but you just don't understand that those of us who believe in modern liberal Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #84

There's no massive surveillance state for one thing treestar Jun 2013 #86

I would just suggest you look into the matter a little bit - there are several sources Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #87

It's not the same government Ash_F Jun 2013 #127

Right marions ghost Jun 2013 #137

Are you implying that they do not have access already? Downwinder Jun 2013 #39

Jesus ,Snowden is Paul Revere now? Narkos Jun 2013 #4

Apparently, the OP is anticipating a 2nd revolutionary war. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #13

OP does not like the system the Founders created treestar Jun 2013 #82

I'm afraid you should've ended your fine post before the comparison. Demit Jun 2013 #7

Thank you for your wise advice usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #25

I guess ProSense Jun 2013 #22

the TOP SECRET documents released don't agree with your post, and usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #34

Actually, they do. Have you even read them? jazzimov Jun 2013 #121

again, this is OFF TOPIC usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #123

What is this 'read' you speak of? randome Jun 2013 #124

ProSense: "Spying on Americans was, is and will still be illegal." woo me with science Jun 2013 #56

Can't quit ProSense Jun 2013 #60

This message was self-deleted by its author ProSense Jun 2013 #61

Meh treestar Jun 2013 #23

So, you think everyone would do it, if they could, therefore we should do it, because we can? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #46

Have we violated any of those laws? treestar Jun 2013 #80

Yes, privacy, and free speech. Now can you answer my questions? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #91

I too would prefer that my money be spent elsewhere otherone Jun 2013 #28

see otherone Jun 2013 #43

Apparently totalitarianism is fine, as long as it comes in under a Dem president. n/t Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #36

signs of a declining empire nashville_brook Jun 2013 #37

What money did Obama move from infrastructure to "supressing people"? tridim Jun 2013 #55

Do you think this massive spying program is operated for free? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #64

I asked a specific question of the person who made the assertion. tridim Jun 2013 #67

So... this is an OPEN discussion. But YOU continue to duck the questions in the OP... usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #69

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #72

Oh, now you are throwing around personal insults usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #74

h/t to the jury usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #99

Bogus hide. Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #101

personal insults are not good for free discussion usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #102

Good to know you're familiar Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #104

Yep, well versed usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #105

We shall see. Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #106

oh, now i am beginning to wonder if you are? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #107

I think your OP is a massive Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #110

finally usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #113

Please Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #118

zzzZZZzzz usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #120

Outstanding. Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #122

While the spying may be unprecedented, I do not believe that is why people HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #41

What we see is no less than encroaching fascism. woo me with science Jun 2013 #53

You can take the Paul Revere off the OP, but you can't Progressive dog Jun 2013 #51

That has nothing to do with the questions I raised usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #62

You posted it, reposted it, but it has nothing to do Progressive dog Jun 2013 #63

I posted it just for you usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #65

Try reply #22 from ProSense to respond to some of the questions but Progressive dog Jun 2013 #70

Her post was off topic, and I responded (LINK) but nothing i said is "RW" that is a complete miss usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #89

It isn't unprecedented except as our technology is unprecedented Progressive dog Jun 2013 #92

It either is, or it isn't. I think most would agree that it IS unprecedented. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #93

^^^^^ marions ghost Jun 2013 #138

I agreed that it was unprecedented Progressive dog Jul 2013 #141

Spying on ALL communication IS unprecedented. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #142

No one is spying on all communications Progressive dog Jul 2013 #143

Directly tapping into the fiber optic trunk lines among other devices usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #145

What part of impossible didn't you get? Progressive dog Jul 2013 #147

I like your poster and I 100% agree with the sentiments Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #66

What's so wrong with comparing Snowden to Revere? reformist2 Jun 2013 #75

That can't be a real questioin, can it? Progressive dog Jun 2013 #76

Paul Revere warned his fellow citizens of an imminent threat to their liberty. So did Snowden. reformist2 Jun 2013 #78

You really don't know any American history Progressive dog Jun 2013 #83

Considering the parallels I think MANY find that it resonates usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #85

See Details On PRISM Tasking And Sources Here cantbeserious Jun 2013 #52

Our spying is ever so helpful to foreign relations. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #57

The Path to Domination fredamae Jun 2013 #81

Unprecedented? On the Road Jun 2013 #88

exactly, this massive, GLOBAL, suspicionless spying of ALL digital and phone communications IS UN usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #90

We have never before had the capability to record every phone call. reusrename Jun 2013 #94

++1000 sikofit3 Jul 2013 #140

+ HiPointDem Jun 2013 #95

kick Liberal_in_LA Jun 2013 #98

Good thread Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #103

It's so incredibly unprecedented that we don't even have evidence that it's happening! randome Jun 2013 #108

You keep using that word... 'evidence' usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #109

The most recent documents we have are slides that show how PRISM works. randome Jun 2013 #114

Which is what this thread is ALL about usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #117

You make all sorts of assumptions in your OP. randome Jun 2013 #125

Nope, just going by what is on the docs, and what other NSA employees have testified about. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #126

'Terrorism' is a term bandied about off-handedly. randome Jun 2013 #130

It's definition has certainly broadened as has the term WMD, and is another BIG RED FLAG usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #131

Always. randome Jun 2013 #136

Actually, NO! The main reason people are against it are because jazzimov Jun 2013 #111

Excuse me? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #115

"Suspicionless spying?" Where is that proven? CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #128

the TOP SECRET documents he released to the press (LINK) usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #129

So, they have to meet conditions to collect on FOREIGN targets, and CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #132

Didn't look like that to the documents and testimony I have read usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #133

What has the "whole rest of the world" been saying? Do tell us! CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #146

K&R forestpath Jun 2013 #134

Alan Grayson video on NSA surveillance Zorra Jun 2013 #135

Excellent video! usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #139

Thanks, Zorra! KoKo Jul 2013 #144