General Discussion

jeff47

(26,549 posts)

79. And when those allies spy on us?

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 12:59 PM

Jun 2013

Everyone is spying on everyone. Ally or not.

The EU countries spy on the US. The US spies on EU countries. When the spying becomes public, one side will feign outrage, and the other will feign apology. Then they get back to spying on each other.

Why?

Well, the most common reason EU countries spy on the US is for industrial espionage - stealing US company secrets to give to EU companies. The US has rules that generally forbid the government handing technology secrets to companies, so we don't do much industrial espionage.

After that, the next most common reason for spying is trying to track supporters of terrorist or other dissidents that cause domestic problems. For example, the UK did a lot of spying around Boston to track the supporters of the IRA.

EU countries don't need to spy on the US to figure out what our government is doing. Our politicians scream that from the mountaintop.

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We are in deep shit with our European allies. [View all] cali Jun 2013 OP

How sad that the EU has more power to influence US spy programs than American citizens. reformist2 Jun 2013 #1

It's a big PR game. We tap them, they tap us. They act outraged, we promise to be nice. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #2

When did the EU systematically target US gov installations? Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #4

And you hinestly believe that the US tapped German lines without knowledge of the Germans? Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #5

That's what the story says. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #9

"Are you that dense?" Typical. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #11

I see you didn't answer my post. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #13

This is a great way to deflect your responsibility nineteen50 Jun 2013 #51

We have troops stationed in a number of places in Germany. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #89

Even if the US did tap German lines . . . brush Jun 2013 #54

Everyone spies on everyone Lordquinton Jun 2013 #91

Exactly. If you're not spying you're not trying. nt brush Jun 2013 #95

Unfortunately we got caught Lordquinton Jun 2013 #100

Yep! That's how it works. brush Jun 2013 #109

I honestly believe that the German Government had no knowledge, nor gave any permission Pachamama Jun 2013 #59

Yeah, well, a lot of people are shocked the US is capable of it, too. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #68

Plus, the reason the German leadership denies this is to avoid the ire of the citizens flamingdem Jun 2013 #72

Do you mean the EU literally, or will member states do? Recursion Jun 2013 #14

Please post. As I said, I must have missed those stories. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #16

Google "Groupe Bull" (spelling fixed) for a starter Recursion Jun 2013 #19

And? It's a French computer company muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #110

That is what the minority refuse to acknowledge the unprecedented scope, and suspicionless nature usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #25

You missed it because nobody covers it. jeff47 Jun 2013 #76

The reason you didn't hear about it is gholtron Jun 2013 #77

I think this is a pretty serious sitiuation. We'll see how it sugars off. cali Jun 2013 #7

False outrage by Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger Kolesar Jun 2013 #8

Not enemies. The official designation is "third class partners" Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #10

New Zealand and the UK have both spied on us in the past two decades Recursion Jun 2013 #15

Then it's ironic that we give them preferred status. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #17

Every country, and I mean *every* country, puts intel assets in their embassies. Period. Recursion Jun 2013 #21

Is this story about implanting intel assets in embassies? Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #22

Taps don't work without them Recursion Jun 2013 #23

I absolutely agree that all nations implant agents in their embassies. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #26

Here's a translation (via Chrome) of the first four paragraphs. Buns_of_Fire Jun 2013 #37

Ms. Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger used the term "enemies" Kolesar Jun 2013 #20

Bingo. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #32

But those are the citizens we've been spying on. caseymoz Jun 2013 #67

And their spying isn't aimed at the government either. jeff47 Jun 2013 #84

I don't think our relations with the EU are anywhere near as close as they are with the UK... reformist2 Jun 2013 #30

If they rebuild the Internet and Telecoms caseymoz Jun 2013 #66

Sychophantics is a way of life. N'est pas? nt PufPuf23 Jun 2013 #33

You know what's funny about your comment .... Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #69

I agree that our posts are not particularly note worthy. PufPuf23 Jun 2013 #94

But these were aimed at civilians! caseymoz Jun 2013 #64

What's wrong with this picture is you're conflating the people with their government. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #71

In the growing government incursion on rights . . . caseymoz Jun 2013 #80

If you have not seen outrage over this, you have not been paying attention. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #88

I think we differ on what we mean by outrage. caseymoz Jun 2013 #96

Something tells me life will go on BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #3

+1 Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #6

This ^^^^ treestar Jun 2013 #36

All moral relativism, no principles whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #49

Keep that label maker working overtime. It's better than not having a hobby at all. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #73

That's what life is like treestar Jun 2013 #83

Well if you prefer a world were the guiding principle is whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #85

You have to in order to survive treestar Jun 2013 #87

Like the current administration? whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #90

Let me phrase what you are saying "They need us, so FUCK THEM!!". Sound correct? n-t Logical Jun 2013 #112

No it sounds like they need us so they aren't going to treestar Jun 2013 #113

But poutrage is more fun than life! tridim Jun 2013 #52

Baaaaaahhhhh wtmusic Jun 2013 #57

That could be the childish response to every story ever published. morningfog Jun 2013 #74

and where was it suggested that it wouldn't? cali Jun 2013 #92

... and whether or not you like it that way is another matter. sibelian Jun 2013 #105

I would be interested to see evidence that the EU systematically targeted US gov installations Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #12

+1 Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #35

Why do you think they'd only spy on the US gov? jeff47 Jun 2013 #78

my guess - there is big, big money in all of this shit, both sides, all sides- on one hand, I am not NRaleighLiberal Jun 2013 #18

+1 leftstreet Jun 2013 #27

It is all about stealing and profit making, not security and safety Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #29

money and power with ZERO oversight or regulation grasswire Jun 2013 #103

This is plainly wrong, Snowden story has nothing to do with this. We shouldn't spy on allies. JackN415 Jun 2013 #24

Just Like We Should Not Spy On Our Own Citizens cantbeserious Jun 2013 #28

It wasn't spying on citizen for private info.It was meta data for pattern recognition. Not the same JackN415 Jun 2013 #38

Calling It What You Will - Spying Is Spying cantbeserious Jun 2013 #40

like "living" is "living". Simple words do not reveal/solve problems. That's for the dark age. eom. JackN415 Jun 2013 #42

Well Like The Dark Ages - Maybe Some Don't Have The Vision To See What Is Going On In the World cantbeserious Jun 2013 #43

That's the NSA's take on it, anyway. wtmusic Jun 2013 #65

And when those allies spy on us? jeff47 Jun 2013 #79

I'm so sick of my country being the world police agency protecting and serving the 1%. nt Zorra Jun 2013 #31

On the "bright" side, Russia is thrilled & producing t.v. "news" shows about its newfound role as UTUSN Jun 2013 #34

''Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!'' DeSwiss Jun 2013 #41

Ah, the "early AuH2O" label. Yeah, on a lifelong Dem. We'll DO IT LIVE!1 UTUSN Jun 2013 #44

Oddly..... DeSwiss Jun 2013 #45

Well, thanks for steering me to the full GREENWALD article I couldn't find. And I'm not sure UTUSN Jun 2013 #48

Russia might as well take up the banner of human rights marions ghost Jun 2013 #108

AHHHHhhhhhhh!1 Thanks for that. n/t UTUSN Jun 2013 #114

If all this nixes yet another assinine "fair trade" deal CanonRay Jun 2013 #39

If the NSA wants to help, bug the offices of the TPP negotiators. Buns_of_Fire Jun 2013 #46

In order to stop the beast you must nineteen50 Jun 2013 #47

Ingrates! They don't appreciate that our spying on them is really a mark of respect and friendship. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #50

It's a sign of caring. Quantess Jun 2013 #53

good. robinlynne Jun 2013 #55

No one can blame this on Snowden. wtmusic Jun 2013 #56

Dear God vdogg Jun 2013 #58

They both put themselves in extreme danger what what they believed in wtmusic Jun 2013 #62

I look forward to future posts equating Snowden to Jesus jeff47 Jun 2013 #86

Obviously your self-sacrifices outshine all. wtmusic Jun 2013 #101

I'm happily irrelevant. But attacking me doesn't solve your problem jeff47 Jun 2013 #115

Comparing Snowden to Pol Pot? That's rich. wtmusic Jul 2013 #120

It's your criteria for greatness. jeff47 Jul 2013 #121

Sure am Glad vdogg Jun 2013 #60

You should be. wtmusic Jun 2013 #63

K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #61

Al Qaeda my ass. dkf Jun 2013 #70

And, our government is digging itself deeper into the shit. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #75

What, your previous reply to the same thread wasn't getting enough attention? jeff47 Jun 2013 #82

Tsk. Tsk. Two replies to one OP! The horror. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #99

Well, there is an unlimited supply of characters for a single post. jeff47 Jun 2013 #116

God made time so everything wouldn't happen at once. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2013 #117

Snowden keeps proving he's not about revealing domestic surveillance. Pirate Smile Jun 2013 #81

Nope. He's just trying to make his anti-government libertarian friends happy... Galraedia Jun 2013 #107

They just want their pony! Enthusiast Jun 2013 #93

You reap what you sow. The fallout will be from our attitude towards the world, not Snowden n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #97

Yup we are. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #98

Link To New PRISM Details From The Washington Post - How The NSA Collects The Data cantbeserious Jun 2013 #102

Still waiting for proof of the EU bugging USgov offices. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #104

All they have to do is assert it. sibelian Jun 2013 #106

+1 Liberal_in_LA Jun 2013 #111

it's really not that big a thing at all JI7 Jul 2013 #118

Many in the US are just as pissed as they are. blackspade Jul 2013 #119

Just wait till we get to the part about manipulation of friendly governments. roamer65 Jul 2013 #122