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In reply to the discussion: But Who STARTED The Altercation Between Martin and Zimmerman? [View all]dkf
(37,305 posts)108. This post was helpful to me.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3131218
From FL case: "When self-defense is asserted, the defendant has the burden of producing enough evidence to establish a prima facie case demonstrating the justifiable use of force. Montijo v. State, 61 So. 3d 424, 427 (Fla. 5th DCA 2011); Fields v. State, 988 So. 2d 1185, 1188 (Fla. 5th DCA 2008); see Murray v. State, 937 So. 2d 277, 282 (Fla. 4th DCA 2006) (holding that law does not require defendant to prove self-defense to any standard measuring assurance of truth, exigency, near certainty, or even mere probability; defendants only burden is to offer facts from which his resort to force could have been reasonable). Once the defendant makes a prima facie showing of self- defense, the State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense. Fields, 988 So. 2d at 1188. The burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, including the burden of proving that the defendant did not act in self-defense, never shifts from the State to the defendant. Montijo, 61 So. 3d at 427; Fields, 988 So. 2d at 1188; see Monsansky v. State, 33 So. 3d 756 (Fla. 1st DCA 2010) (explaining that defendant has burden to present sufficient evidence that he acted in self-defense in order to be entitled to jury instruction on issue, but presentation of such evidence does not change elements of offense at issue; rather, it merely requires state to present evidence that establishes beyond reasonable doubt that defendant did not act in self-defense); Murray, 937 So. 2d at 279 (explaining that defendant in trial for aggravated battery was not required to prove self-defense claim beyond reasonable doubt or by preponderance of evidence; rather, self-defense evidence needed merely leave jury with reasonable doubt about whether he was justified in using deadly force).
From FL case: "When self-defense is asserted, the defendant has the burden of producing enough evidence to establish a prima facie case demonstrating the justifiable use of force. Montijo v. State, 61 So. 3d 424, 427 (Fla. 5th DCA 2011); Fields v. State, 988 So. 2d 1185, 1188 (Fla. 5th DCA 2008); see Murray v. State, 937 So. 2d 277, 282 (Fla. 4th DCA 2006) (holding that law does not require defendant to prove self-defense to any standard measuring assurance of truth, exigency, near certainty, or even mere probability; defendants only burden is to offer facts from which his resort to force could have been reasonable). Once the defendant makes a prima facie showing of self- defense, the State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense. Fields, 988 So. 2d at 1188. The burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, including the burden of proving that the defendant did not act in self-defense, never shifts from the State to the defendant. Montijo, 61 So. 3d at 427; Fields, 988 So. 2d at 1188; see Monsansky v. State, 33 So. 3d 756 (Fla. 1st DCA 2010) (explaining that defendant has burden to present sufficient evidence that he acted in self-defense in order to be entitled to jury instruction on issue, but presentation of such evidence does not change elements of offense at issue; rather, it merely requires state to present evidence that establishes beyond reasonable doubt that defendant did not act in self-defense); Murray, 937 So. 2d at 279 (explaining that defendant in trial for aggravated battery was not required to prove self-defense claim beyond reasonable doubt or by preponderance of evidence; rather, self-defense evidence needed merely leave jury with reasonable doubt about whether he was justified in using deadly force).
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But Who STARTED The Altercation Between Martin and Zimmerman? [View all]
Caroline-Vivienne
Jun 2013
OP
Zimmerman, when he got out of his car. Possibly when he was stalking Martin from his car. nt
rrneck
Jun 2013
#1
But Since it's an Affirmative Defense for Self Defense and not Stand Your Ground...
Caroline-Vivienne
Jun 2013
#10
Is there a reasonable doubt about who killed Martin? Is there a reasonable doubt that he would
Threedifferentones
Jun 2013
#88
even if Trayvon threw the first punch, there is little evidence to justify the use of the gun.
Voice for Peace
Jun 2013
#26
By the extent of his injuries, and the testimony of people who saw Zimmerman on top
Voice for Peace
Jun 2013
#100
Does it have to be a punch? What if Zimmerman grabbed Martin to keep him from walking away?
arcane1
Jun 2013
#56
I think so....any physical contact....My God, why didn't that idiot just identify himself!
Caroline-Vivienne
Jun 2013
#62
I think because he was hunting a black man. That's the opinion I get of Zimmerman.
Maraya1969
Jun 2013
#73
Agreed. Zimmerman began following Martin, armed, in a threatening manner...
HooptieWagon
Jun 2013
#46
A reply bumps a thread up to the top of the page again. That's called a "Kick".
Recursion
Jun 2013
#6
And a preponderance of the evidence just means "it's more likely I'm telling the truth than lying"
Recursion
Jun 2013
#39
"Who touched who" is who initiated the conflict. Z had a right to do what he did up until the moment
Recursion
Jun 2013
#45
Yes, he did. He had every right to be on that sidewalk too, even though he's a douchebag
Recursion
Jun 2013
#48
My conclusion as well. And there are lots of them, and just about everyone is a gun lover.
Hoyt
Jun 2013
#102
I agree. But that doesn't seem to be the legal view. It seems to be the fist fight.
Caroline-Vivienne
Jun 2013
#11
Of course it would need to be proven (or admitted) that the person was STALKING him
etherealtruth
Jun 2013
#53
There is a specific defintion of stalking and it is not as you think it is. It is also not
Bluenorthwest
Jun 2013
#66
So they are just trying to muddy the water....or show that the water is unfailingly muddied.
Caroline-Vivienne
Jun 2013
#17
That's how I see it. I don't think the defense is really trying to prove Zimmerman's actions
Adsos Letter
Jun 2013
#24
I don't think a defendant's word alone can be accepted as proof without additional evidence/backup.
Caroline-Vivienne
Jun 2013
#19
I don't think the jury will buy a self-defense defense. It just isn't clean enough.
Voice for Peace
Jun 2013
#27
If you walk away from a fight...without stitches...or a trip to the hospital.....come on.....
Caroline-Vivienne
Jun 2013
#60
It is impossible to know. Anyone who claims otherwise is simply engaging in conjecture.
cherokeeprogressive
Jun 2013
#74