General Discussion

forthemiddle

(1,459 posts)

189. Sorry if you took it the wrong way

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 03:16 PM

Jun 2013

I was telling you that when they state Mucous Membranes normal, it does not automatically preclude a broken nose. Sorry to point out a FACT!
I am not prejudging in any case, I was just stating that I read on average 100 medical encounters a day, for the federal government, by the way to audit for charges. In that case what I do is read, and literally count the number of systems a provider exams for a physical exam (along with the history of present illness, and medical decision making - which does not come into play for this post). When "counting for the exam, MMN (mucous membrane normal) that can include oral, nasal, or lips. It would not automatically mean - OH this person doesn't have a broken nose, which you seem to be implying.

This case inflames passion, and opinion of all sides, so I will stay out of it from now on. I only post when I see mistaken (sorry for the words misleading, but that is what you were doing. Misleading people to assume because the mucous membranes where normal, George Zimmerman was lying, and must have broken his nose on his own.

I will not post on the subject again, but for others reading this, please know that just because the mucous membranes were normal, that doesn't mean shit.

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Did Zimmerman self inflict his wounds? [View all] Hugabear Jun 2013 OP

one obvious problem - it appears Zimmerman was on the ground being hit, not TM DrDan Jun 2013 #1

He would have had to have been sitting up for the blood to run down the back of his head notadmblnd Jun 2013 #8

Not true premium Jun 2013 #74

According to one witness who had to recant brush Jun 2013 #10

no need for personal insults - here is what Good had to say yesterday DrDan Jun 2013 #15

So Martin felt his life in danger, was defending himself and was shot. hedgehog Jun 2013 #18

not going to jump to a conclusion until I hear more testimony DrDan Jun 2013 #21

You and I don't agree on much regarding firearms, but on this we're in 100% agreement n/t shadowrider Jun 2013 #71

Except the physical evidence doesn't match up Hugabear Jun 2013 #20

can't answer that - but there is certainly more testimony coming up, isn't there DrDan Jun 2013 #22

yet you keep harping and clinging to Good's testimony CatWoman Jun 2013 #36

harping? did I ever deny their testimony? DrDan Jun 2013 #38

If you insist that other posters stick to the facts, that's going to slow things down. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #48

An earlier female witness said that the larger figure was on top and got off after the shot brush Jun 2013 #24

this whole self-infliction theory is so bizarre - has ANYONE (other than here) suggested anything DrDan Jun 2013 #27

If Trayvon didn't inflict those wounds, they had to get there some other way Hugabear Jun 2013 #34

hence the need to let the testimony proceed - don't you think? DrDan Jun 2013 #40

The only problem is there were several witnesses who looked outside after the gunshot Travis_0004 Jun 2013 #131

I find the repeated attempts to excuse Zimmerman's crime bizarre ecstatic Jun 2013 #155

George himself says he tripped or fell notadmblnd Jun 2013 #167

Forensic evidence up next week B2G Jun 2013 #30

absolutely - and I think that is entirely appropriate DrDan Jun 2013 #33

Good and other witnesses who are members of the condo association have a conflict of interest. yardwork Jun 2013 #73

But wasn't the president of the HOA at the time called as a prosecution witness? Adsos Letter Jun 2013 #87

All these witnesses have been called by the prosecution. yardwork Jun 2013 #91

You're right. Adsos Letter Jun 2013 #94

Any testimony helpful toward Zimmerman is helpful to the HOA. yardwork Jun 2013 #134

The Martin family and HOA have already settled pintobean Jun 2013 #137

That is only one lawsuit. There is a possibility of many more being filed. yardwork Jun 2013 #178

Right again. Adsos Letter Jun 2013 #157

this is my understanding... handmade34 Jun 2013 #151

Also testified to yesterday: Nevernose Jun 2013 #31

interesting to note that Good could "identify" Trayvon in the dark... chillfactor Jun 2013 #82

And yet the jury was listening to him very closely, premium Jun 2013 #86

there have been problems with each key witness to date - but you play the hand DrDan Jun 2013 #175

Good also said he only heard two cries csziggy Jun 2013 #169

he is testifying to what he heard - I heard none - does that bring my credibility into question? DrDan Jun 2013 #173

Good was the only one who claimed to have gone outside csziggy Jun 2013 #176

How can anyone see the color red in the dark? You can not see colors beyond black/white/grey in the uppityperson Jun 2013 #170

that was his testimony - up to the jury to apply credibility to it DrDan Jun 2013 #171

I know. I just get annoyed with misconceptions of basic anatomy like this. uppityperson Jun 2013 #172

I do realize red will appear black without light - however, I am sure there was some ambient light DrDan Jun 2013 #174

Two women, by the way, say they saw Zimmerman on top. BlueCaliDem Jun 2013 #79

Zimmerman himself claims that he turned TM's body over after the gunshot Duer 157099 Jun 2013 #154

Why would Zimmerman do that? Is that normal for a shooter to turn a victim's body over? BlueCaliDem Jun 2013 #166

Others said it was Zimmerman on top Hugabear Jun 2013 #14

this witness was 15-20 feet away - closer than the others if I remember correctly DrDan Jun 2013 #16

Ahh . . . zimmerman was the larger guy, 40-50 lbs larger. nt brush Jun 2013 #25

Yes, Zimmerman was the larger guy Hugabear Jun 2013 #26

I thought another witness said the guy on top was wearing a red and black jacket pnwmom Jun 2013 #95

The spanish-speaking lady said she saw the red-and-black jacket on top kudzu22 Jun 2013 #163

if it happened this way, forensics will tell. loli phabay Jun 2013 #2

It would be easier to ask his brother, or even one of the cops for help receiving wounds. Ian David Jun 2013 #3

yeah and you dont think that no one would have seen that occur. loli phabay Jun 2013 #5

agree - some will twist the facts into any shape that fits their desired outcome DrDan Jun 2013 #6

Like the fact that Trayvon's hands had absolutely no bruises? Hugabear Jun 2013 #13

one scenarion were you get this is open hand on face pounding head on object loli phabay Jun 2013 #49

Didn't someone testify that bruises do not form after a person dies? cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #96

They should have formed while Trayvon was 'raining down blows' Hugabear Jun 2013 #99

I cannot find anything on the intertubes that says bruises form immediately. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #108

I'm not saying that's how it happened. Just that it wouldn't surprise me. n/t Ian David Jun 2013 #50

if i read stuff right there were witnesses with eyes on from the fight to the emts etc loli phabay Jun 2013 #51

Then if enough of those witnesses say he was already injured, he must either... Ian David Jun 2013 #72

I think this is the most plausible scenario right here. n/t backscatter712 Jun 2013 #19

That thought occured to me also katmondoo Jun 2013 #4

or maybe a unicorn did it cthulu2016 Jun 2013 #7

My unicorn never left the garage that night. pintobean Jun 2013 #9

really? Your unicorn has a set up alibi? hollysmom Jun 2013 #78

Being invisible, it's pretty much required. nt pintobean Jun 2013 #90

you have a Romulan Unicorn? n/t hollysmom Jun 2013 #97

Did he get hit at MMA practice? NoOneMan Jun 2013 #11

GOOD QUESTION!!! uponit7771 Jun 2013 #140

I guess anything pipi_k Jun 2013 #12

Don't you find it surprising that VERY intelligent people, who are VERY well informed... cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #112

Surprised, yet... pipi_k Jun 2013 #186

I wouldn't put it past him. backscatter712 Jun 2013 #17

As Mr. Martin didn't lay a finger on him, obviously it wasn't Mr. Martin. therefore ... graham4anything Jun 2013 #23

The EMT testified that the nose was likey broken B2G Jun 2013 #32

you are asking the wrong person graham4anything Jun 2013 #35

I am asking the person claiming there was no broken nose B2G Jun 2013 #37

70s year apart in Sanford Florida... graham4anything Jun 2013 #43

There is no point in talking to you about this B2G Jun 2013 #46

Yep, premium Jun 2013 #80

The conclusion was reached, in part, upon the responding EMT who wrote AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #102

Actually, the EMT who responded wrote in his report wrote: "Mucous Membrane Normal". AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #101

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2013 #141

The doc said it might have been broken Nevernose Jun 2013 #39

she also, I thought, seemed sympathetic to the defense Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #65

Sometime in the 10 - 20 seconds pintobean Jun 2013 #47

Some of these posts make me wonder if I somehow stumbled into CokeMachine Jun 2013 #57

It's quite obvious that some people pintobean Jun 2013 #58

Yep -- Have a great Weekend!! nt CokeMachine Jun 2013 #59

You too. pintobean Jun 2013 #60

I would think it highly unlikely. egduj Jun 2013 #28

Leaks of the autopsy say there was damage to Martin's knuckles. dkf Jun 2013 #29

That's not news Just Saying Jun 2013 #45

that reads like sensationalist reporting Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #67

That's false, there was a "small abrasion" on his ring finger there was no damage to his knuckels uponit7771 Jun 2013 #142

Leaks? Seriously. Get a grip. dpibel Jun 2013 #162

I feel like his injuries may be a combination of Just Saying Jun 2013 #41

Who knows at this point, but I wouldn't put it past that murderous asshole. Arugula Latte Jun 2013 #42

Some research on the Sanford PD will give you some russspeakeasy Jun 2013 #44

I saw the video of Zimmerman walking into and at the police station, only minor DeschutesRiver Jun 2013 #52

Here's where the EMT report can be found: AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #103

Thanks for that link; had not seen the EMT report before DeschutesRiver Jun 2013 #117

Here are photos of his injuries. The do not look serious. prole_for_peace Jun 2013 #123

Those kind of tiny scratches are what I remember seeing from that earlier video DeschutesRiver Jun 2013 #126

And keep in mind Zimmerman outweighed Martin by 40 pounds quinnox Jun 2013 #53

Even if I knew that breaking my own nose would keep me out of prison, Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #54

You don't have a friend who would help? AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #105

So someone I could call and say "hey man! I need you to get here ASAP and break my nose!" Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #107

No smeared blood on the back of his head and no lumps RandiFan1290 Jun 2013 #55

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2013 #143

Here's the on-scene photo taken by the cop. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #56

Looks broken to me...and the EMT on scene agreed. n/t B2G Jun 2013 #63

as did the physicians assistant who treated him the following day. pintobean Jun 2013 #66

RECENTLY broken noses are accompanied by blood vessel damage as shown by black eyes. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #70

Indeed. Here's the video of her testimony pintobean Jun 2013 #109

Since the on-scene EMT reported "Mucous Membrane Normal," AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #115

Or, he could have been struck by a meteorite. pintobean Jun 2013 #129

"Or, he could have been struck by a meteorite. ... in case you're interested in reality." AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #136

The EMT report didn't mention his MMA buddies pintobean Jun 2013 #138

Then if you don't believe that he had such buddies, you must be right about your meteorite theory. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #139

I read medical records for a living forthemiddle Jun 2013 #168

So you "read medical records for a living" and anyone who doesn't read medical records for a living AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #187

Sorry if you took it the wrong way forthemiddle Jun 2013 #189

Thank you for the info. nt pintobean Jun 2013 #190

Does it look RECENTLY broken? I'm including a link to the EMT report. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #81

In the cleaned up pic RandiFan1290 Jun 2013 #76

Also, the EMT who responded wrote in his report wrote: "Mucous Membrane Normal". AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #83

Contrast that picture with this one: cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #114

And this is evidence photo taking a police station prole_for_peace Jun 2013 #125

I've always thought he did. connecticut yankee Jun 2013 #61

has there been testimony yet from the ME who examined Trayvon? Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #62

I think so. Starry Messenger Jun 2013 #64

Was there enough time? Adsos Letter Jun 2013 #68

deliberately self-inflicted, no TorchTheWitch Jun 2013 #69

Could Zimmerman's gun have kicked back and hit him in the nose when he shot Martin? yardwork Jun 2013 #75

Highly unlikely, premium Jun 2013 #84

Then in that case I think that Zimmerman hit himself with his own gun. It had his blood on it. yardwork Jun 2013 #88

It would seem to me that you've already convicted Zman premium Jun 2013 #93

isn't that what I said? TorchTheWitch Jun 2013 #92

Sorry, I hadn't understand that that was exactly what you said. yardwork Jun 2013 #135

Unknown. Doesn't matter. Deep13 Jun 2013 #77

Unarmed people can still kill you Recursion Jun 2013 #85

"Can't use lethal force to respond to non-lethal force"? Sure you can. Sometimes, even legally. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #110

When? nt Deep13 Jun 2013 #111

I have no doubt Zimmerman murdered Martin, but I don't think he injured himself other Hoyt Jun 2013 #89

And you have no doubt that most gun owners are RW bigots premium Jun 2013 #100

No question in my mind. Just go to a friggin gun show, gun store, range or whatever you choose. Hoyt Jun 2013 #104

7 people out of, how many, 80+ million? premium Jun 2013 #106

Yes, gun shows are models of racial diversity Hugabear Jun 2013 #113

So AA and Latinos don't buy firearms also? premium Jun 2013 #116

Prem, wise up. If white folks weren't irrationally afraid of minorities, we wouldn't have a problem. Hoyt Jun 2013 #118

You're on a roll Hoyt, premium Jun 2013 #122

Yet gun violence is mainly intra-racial hack89 Jun 2013 #156

Gun Shows I attended in Las Vegas, Reno, Carson City sure were. nt. premium Jun 2013 #124

7 my ass. Hoyt Jun 2013 #119

Wow, 14 out of 80+ million gun owners? premium Jun 2013 #121

We're talking about gun shows Hugabear Jun 2013 #132

Do try to keep up, premium Jun 2013 #133

Uh huh. RichardPatrick Jun 2013 #128

Only page with matching images...... RandiFan1290 Jun 2013 #158

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #159

Welcome Back! RandiFan1290 Jun 2013 #160

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #161

Buh bye troll jackbag! RandiFan1290 Jun 2013 #165

How many gun shows have you gone to? Didn't you say at least once that you were a former robber AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #145

Neither, but you are obviously a gun lover. Hoyt Jun 2013 #146

Actually, you said, "As a former robber, I locked the door to keep people out" AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #147

Mac, it was a response to your or another gun nuts' stupid statement. Hoyt Jun 2013 #148

I didn't even post in that thread, so you didn't respond to me. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #150

You are still too obtuse to get it, worse you stalk posters. Hoyt Jun 2013 #153

Staging could be a possibility. moondust Jun 2013 #98

The wounds on the back of his head could have come from falling on the sidewalk. prole_for_peace Jun 2013 #120

I've always had the faint suspicion his daddy beat the hell out of him Warpy Jun 2013 #127

No bruises on Martin's hands could be a result of mwrguy Jun 2013 #130

...nope, played balled and used them all the time..they would swell like mad until I got gloves... uponit7771 Jun 2013 #144

I read initial reports that he refused EMT assistance AtomicKitten Jun 2013 #149

Don't you actually have to be alive to have bruises? grok Jun 2013 #152

If the prosecutor has some evidence that GZ's injuries were self-inflicted kudzu22 Jun 2013 #164

well the first witness was there in like thirty seconds so backwoodsbob Jun 2013 #177

The injuries could have been caused by recoil when he fired the gun. yardwork Jun 2013 #179

oh come on...this is getting silly backwoodsbob Jun 2013 #180

If was hit by recoil he didn't calculate at all. yardwork Jun 2013 #181

I never said he was a victim backwoodsbob Jun 2013 #182

Zimmerman's defense depends entirely on him being a victim. yardwork Jun 2013 #183

of course backwoodsbob Jun 2013 #185

My guess is Politicalboi Jun 2013 #184

my guess is backwoodsbob Jun 2013 #188