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Benton D Struckcheon

(2,347 posts)
46. The legal underpinnings aren't rock solid, and will be subject to challenge
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 06:28 PM
Jun 2013

There was a dissenting opinion written in the case that underlies the justification for metadata not being protected by the Fourth Amendment, written by Justices Stewart and Brennan. Their logic here:

The numbers dialed from a private telephone -- although certainly more prosaic than the conversation itself -- are not without "content." Most private telephone subscribers may have their own numbers listed in a publicly distributed directory, but I doubt there are any who would be happy to have broadcast to the world a list of the local or long distance numbers they have called. This is not because such a list might in some sense be incriminating, but because it easily could reveal the identities of the persons and the places called, and thus reveal the most intimate details of a person's life.
I respectfully dissent.


Those of us who think vacuuming up metadata wholesale is not a good thing are basing it on that logic: that it would "reveal the most intimate details of a person's life."
Further, there is a second technologically related problem here.
At the time of this ruling, which was Smith v Maryland, the only thing the pen register which was the point of controversy in that case could do was record the phone numbers that had been dialed from Smith's home phone. As noted in the decision, the pen register couldn't tell the police anything about the call: whether it had been completed, and if so, how long it had been, for instance.
The metadata being collected presently by the NSA has that data. Call records obtained using present technology would be able to tell if a call was completed and if completed how long it went on for.
I am firmly of the belief this practice needs to be brought before the court again, as is presently being done by the ACLU, so that it can be re-argued in the light of present-day technology. I think the results would be different. That dissent brought up a legitimate concern, and the technology now present brings up the question of sheer scale: a pen register was very limited in the scale and scope of what it could capture. The scope of present day technology is much larger, and the scale of the data is certainly also much larger. It's like the difference between a wooden bridge over a creek and a suspension bridge over a bay or major river.

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Thanks for the cross post, Steve. sheshe2 Jun 2013 #1
You're welcome! stevenleser Jun 2013 #2
Thanks for a great show and discussion and the transcript! Will get to it tomorrow. freshwest Jun 2013 #10
Obama actually switched his stance on FISA while he was still a candidate, in July 2008 JaneyVee Jun 2013 #14
I'm still reading.. I keep getting interrupted! Cha Jun 2013 #3
Kick!! And thank you Steven! LeftInTX Jun 2013 #4
K&R. A must read! (nt) Control-Z Jun 2013 #5
Read this Atlantic article. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #6
And the ideal of almost total freedom that we had when the Constitution was written pnwmom Jun 2013 #8
Are you in favor of doing away with the Bill of Rights? JDPriestly Jun 2013 #9
No. I'm in favor of tracking phone numbers and if links to terrorists appear, pnwmom Jun 2013 #11
The government has that ability withoout kettling the rest of us. This willy nilly snappyturtle Jun 2013 #26
No, it doesn't, since the govt. doesn't know BEFOREHAND who might be connected pnwmom Jun 2013 #28
Please, look. All they have to do is get a warrant for the phone records of their suspect. snappyturtle Jun 2013 #29
They dont have a suspect yet. They are looking for suspects. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #31
Oh, that makes me feel better. snappyturtle Jun 2013 #33
Domestic political activities are not part of the foreign espionage or terror exemption stevenleser Jun 2013 #34
What if I was an OWS sympathizer before country x's involvement? snappyturtle Jun 2013 #35
So let's parse it out stevenleser Jun 2013 #37
I just re-read what you wrote. It hit me in another way: snappyturtle Jun 2013 #36
Nope, I am not saying that. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #38
My bad. I shouldn't try listening to immigration reform discussion on teevee snappyturtle Jun 2013 #39
Kind of far fetched. reusrename Jun 2013 #44
That is a totally different conversation from what we are seeing from Obama critics but... stevenleser Jun 2013 #12
So basically FISA needs to be modified and modernized ... ananda Jun 2013 #13
I don't think creating straw men is the way to discuss anything. That person did not say that. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #15
*never mind* Sheepshank Jun 2013 #17
Bookmarking. Thank you, Steven! n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #7
You're welcome! stevenleser Jun 2013 #16
DU Rec...nt SidDithers Jun 2013 #18
The truth of the matter......... Sheepshank Jun 2013 #19
It was actually my first time listening to your show Jamaal510 Jun 2013 #20
Thought you might enjoy this blast from the past on Greenwald.... msanthrope Jun 2013 #21
Wow, so he is trying to accuse others of something he himself did. Interesting. I also stevenleser Jun 2013 #22
Well, not only did, but he truly managed to screw over his client in the process... msanthrope Jun 2013 #23
looks like someone didn't notice that was from over a year ago JI7 Jun 2013 #32
Glenn Greenwald actually wrote about it before but now acts outraged. Go figure. DevonRex Jun 2013 #24
Hong Kong costs. The Mira isn't cheap. nt msanthrope Jun 2013 #25
to read later snagglepuss Jun 2013 #27
Two days later after this post and no criticism. I find that fascinating. You would think that those stevenleser Jun 2013 #30
for one thing, you are wrong about the date of the FISA warrant having to do with the Boston bombing NoMoreWarNow Jun 2013 #40
Three months worth of surveillance renewed every six months or so? stevenleser Jun 2013 #41
Perhaps engaging with you about the facts of the matter is too much to expect. redqueen Jun 2013 #42
I've always felt that Liberalism and Progressivism were first and foremost fact based ideologies stevenleser Jun 2013 #43
Kick nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #45
The legal underpinnings aren't rock solid, and will be subject to challenge Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #46
Smith v. Maryland does not involve a National Security Issue. The rules are completely different. stevenleser Jun 2013 #47
Just FYI, I am reading it now, Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #48
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