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In reply to the discussion: xPost from BOG: Transcript of the NSA Surveillance Portion of my 6/9-10/13 show [View all]Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)46. The legal underpinnings aren't rock solid, and will be subject to challenge
There was a dissenting opinion written in the case that underlies the justification for metadata not being protected by the Fourth Amendment, written by Justices Stewart and Brennan. Their logic here:
The numbers dialed from a private telephone -- although certainly more prosaic than the conversation itself -- are not without "content." Most private telephone subscribers may have their own numbers listed in a publicly distributed directory, but I doubt there are any who would be happy to have broadcast to the world a list of the local or long distance numbers they have called. This is not because such a list might in some sense be incriminating, but because it easily could reveal the identities of the persons and the places called, and thus reveal the most intimate details of a person's life.
I respectfully dissent.
I respectfully dissent.
Those of us who think vacuuming up metadata wholesale is not a good thing are basing it on that logic: that it would "reveal the most intimate details of a person's life."
Further, there is a second technologically related problem here.
At the time of this ruling, which was Smith v Maryland, the only thing the pen register which was the point of controversy in that case could do was record the phone numbers that had been dialed from Smith's home phone. As noted in the decision, the pen register couldn't tell the police anything about the call: whether it had been completed, and if so, how long it had been, for instance.
The metadata being collected presently by the NSA has that data. Call records obtained using present technology would be able to tell if a call was completed and if completed how long it went on for.
I am firmly of the belief this practice needs to be brought before the court again, as is presently being done by the ACLU, so that it can be re-argued in the light of present-day technology. I think the results would be different. That dissent brought up a legitimate concern, and the technology now present brings up the question of sheer scale: a pen register was very limited in the scale and scope of what it could capture. The scope of present day technology is much larger, and the scale of the data is certainly also much larger. It's like the difference between a wooden bridge over a creek and a suspension bridge over a bay or major river.
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xPost from BOG: Transcript of the NSA Surveillance Portion of my 6/9-10/13 show [View all]
stevenleser
Jun 2013
OP
Thanks for a great show and discussion and the transcript! Will get to it tomorrow.
freshwest
Jun 2013
#10
Obama actually switched his stance on FISA while he was still a candidate, in July 2008
JaneyVee
Jun 2013
#14
And the ideal of almost total freedom that we had when the Constitution was written
pnwmom
Jun 2013
#8
The government has that ability withoout kettling the rest of us. This willy nilly
snappyturtle
Jun 2013
#26
Please, look. All they have to do is get a warrant for the phone records of their suspect.
snappyturtle
Jun 2013
#29
Domestic political activities are not part of the foreign espionage or terror exemption
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#34
My bad. I shouldn't try listening to immigration reform discussion on teevee
snappyturtle
Jun 2013
#39
That is a totally different conversation from what we are seeing from Obama critics but...
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#12
I don't think creating straw men is the way to discuss anything. That person did not say that. nt
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#15
Wow, so he is trying to accuse others of something he himself did. Interesting. I also
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#22
Well, not only did, but he truly managed to screw over his client in the process...
msanthrope
Jun 2013
#23
Glenn Greenwald actually wrote about it before but now acts outraged. Go figure.
DevonRex
Jun 2013
#24
Two days later after this post and no criticism. I find that fascinating. You would think that those
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#30
for one thing, you are wrong about the date of the FISA warrant having to do with the Boston bombing
NoMoreWarNow
Jun 2013
#40
Perhaps engaging with you about the facts of the matter is too much to expect.
redqueen
Jun 2013
#42
I've always felt that Liberalism and Progressivism were first and foremost fact based ideologies
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#43
The legal underpinnings aren't rock solid, and will be subject to challenge
Benton D Struckcheon
Jun 2013
#46
Smith v. Maryland does not involve a National Security Issue. The rules are completely different.
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#47