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randome

(34,845 posts)

114. The most recent documents we have are slides that show how PRISM works.

Reply to usGovOwesUs3Trillion (Reply #109)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 08:13 PM

Jun 2013

Does this mean that the NSA is spying domestically? Or does it mean that only data with a foreign communicant involved is being looked at?

We can make assumptions that support our point of views all day. In fact, that's mostly what DU has devolved into lately. But until evidence shows that the NSA is violating the law or the regulations, we have no reason to assume the worst.

That has nothing to do with pushing for more transparency and less secrecy. In fact, I'm sure we'll all agree that it's a foregone conclusion that the NSA will change because of Snowden.

But screaming about 'fascism' and a 'total surveillance state' is simple paranoia unless backed up with evidence.

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The massive, suspicionless spying is UNPRECEDENTED, and is why many folks object to it. [View all] usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 OP

Now he's Paul Revere? I thought he was John Brown? Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #1

I think it is an interesting analogy usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #14

No, he's Gandhi, MLK, Albert Sweitzer, Daniel Elsburg, & Karen Silkwood, all rolled into one. baldguy Jun 2013 #30

We should cut taxes, shrink our evil government, and then ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #2

You sound just like a tea bagger usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #3

Perhaps, however ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #6

what the fuck do you mean "not sure about you"? DO you EVER hear TB talking about improving gov usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #21

How about this ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #27

Just Stop Your Baseless Insults and Accusations. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #48

Oh. My. God. jazzimov Jun 2013 #116

u2 usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #119

Nice try leftstreet Jun 2013 #5

Can you imagine what the evil government will do when ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #9

They're already killing us off just through costs n/t leftstreet Jun 2013 #10

So we don't support Single Payer anymore? JoePhilly Jun 2013 #12

LOL I haven't seen anyone but you make that comparison n/t leftstreet Jun 2013 #15

One can not logically argue that (a) we now live under a totalitarian government and (b) JoePhilly Jun 2013 #17

Yes, look what Medicare and SS have done to seniors! leftstreet Jun 2013 #18

So you agree with me, we do not live under a totalitarian government. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #20

When did you stop supporting SS & Medicare? n/t leftstreet Jun 2013 #24

Never. I support both. And Single Payer. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #33

That's good to know n/t leftstreet Jun 2013 #35

Well, we want DOCTORS to manage our health care and the government to kestrel91316 Jun 2013 #59

Why trust them in the one case, and not the other? JoePhilly Jun 2013 #77

Are you serious? One is a foreign spy agency looking for evil-doers, the other is concerned about usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #100

you dont seem to understand EMR, ARRA, and "meaningful use". suggest you google more. nt galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #38

this is a progressive board and we don't believe in that sort of thing here anymore than we believe Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #8

Looking forward to the day where our totalitarian government, also has direct access to our medical JoePhilly Jun 2013 #11

oh bullshit. if you think there is a moral equivalency between having a single payer universal Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #16

The same government would be controlling both ... no? JoePhilly Jun 2013 #19

oh for crying out loud. Medical files used for medical reassons are not the same a a national Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #26

Why would we trust them to use our medical files only for medical purposes? JoePhilly Jun 2013 #31

I don't agree with the rightwing view that socialized medicine leads to totalitarianism Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #42

Think some more ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #45

massive surveillance states do frequently lead to totalitarianism - socialized healthcare never has Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #47

Though it does clearly illustrate the absurdity of their claims usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #112

You're making the Ronald Reagan argument. And JoePhilly is the one pointing out how ludicrous it is. baldguy Jun 2013 #44

show me one poll that says most people consider Snowden a traitor? Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #49

U & JoePhilly are making the ludicrous claim that our data is safe & confidential with a SPY agency usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #68

If it's not safe with a SPY AGENCY - whose entire existence rests upon keeping secrets baldguy Jun 2013 #71

Yeah, they are doing a swell job of that usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #73

So you're going to blindly accept Snowden's word that the NSA shouldn't be trusted baldguy Jun 2013 #96

it's not just his word, it's his TOP SECRET documents... usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #97

Does seem strange that the same evil government, which you do not trust treestar Jun 2013 #29

And we'd trust this same evil government with a gun registry. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #32

Another good point. treestar Jun 2013 #50

then you just don't understand how free people in democratic societies think. We believe that Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #40

You are skipping the part where the government would know treestar Jun 2013 #54

I don't actually believe you believe what you are saying. But we can look around Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #58

Nonresponsive treestar Jun 2013 #79

I did respond but you just don't understand that those of us who believe in modern liberal Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #84

There's no massive surveillance state for one thing treestar Jun 2013 #86

I would just suggest you look into the matter a little bit - there are several sources Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #87

It's not the same government Ash_F Jun 2013 #127

Right marions ghost Jun 2013 #137

Are you implying that they do not have access already? Downwinder Jun 2013 #39

Jesus ,Snowden is Paul Revere now? Narkos Jun 2013 #4

Apparently, the OP is anticipating a 2nd revolutionary war. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #13

OP does not like the system the Founders created treestar Jun 2013 #82

I'm afraid you should've ended your fine post before the comparison. Demit Jun 2013 #7

Thank you for your wise advice usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #25

I guess ProSense Jun 2013 #22

the TOP SECRET documents released don't agree with your post, and usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #34

Actually, they do. Have you even read them? jazzimov Jun 2013 #121

again, this is OFF TOPIC usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #123

What is this 'read' you speak of? randome Jun 2013 #124

ProSense: "Spying on Americans was, is and will still be illegal." woo me with science Jun 2013 #56

Can't quit ProSense Jun 2013 #60

This message was self-deleted by its author ProSense Jun 2013 #61

Meh treestar Jun 2013 #23

So, you think everyone would do it, if they could, therefore we should do it, because we can? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #46

Have we violated any of those laws? treestar Jun 2013 #80

Yes, privacy, and free speech. Now can you answer my questions? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #91

I too would prefer that my money be spent elsewhere otherone Jun 2013 #28

see otherone Jun 2013 #43

Apparently totalitarianism is fine, as long as it comes in under a Dem president. n/t Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #36

signs of a declining empire nashville_brook Jun 2013 #37

What money did Obama move from infrastructure to "supressing people"? tridim Jun 2013 #55

Do you think this massive spying program is operated for free? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #64

I asked a specific question of the person who made the assertion. tridim Jun 2013 #67

So... this is an OPEN discussion. But YOU continue to duck the questions in the OP... usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #69

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #72

Oh, now you are throwing around personal insults usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #74

h/t to the jury usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #99

Bogus hide. Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #101

personal insults are not good for free discussion usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #102

Good to know you're familiar Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #104

Yep, well versed usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #105

We shall see. Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #106

oh, now i am beginning to wonder if you are? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #107

I think your OP is a massive Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #110

finally usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #113

Please Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #118

zzzZZZzzz usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #120

Outstanding. Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #122

While the spying may be unprecedented, I do not believe that is why people HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #41

What we see is no less than encroaching fascism. woo me with science Jun 2013 #53

You can take the Paul Revere off the OP, but you can't Progressive dog Jun 2013 #51

That has nothing to do with the questions I raised usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #62

You posted it, reposted it, but it has nothing to do Progressive dog Jun 2013 #63

I posted it just for you usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #65

Try reply #22 from ProSense to respond to some of the questions but Progressive dog Jun 2013 #70

Her post was off topic, and I responded (LINK) but nothing i said is "RW" that is a complete miss usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #89

It isn't unprecedented except as our technology is unprecedented Progressive dog Jun 2013 #92

It either is, or it isn't. I think most would agree that it IS unprecedented. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #93

^^^^^ marions ghost Jun 2013 #138

I agreed that it was unprecedented Progressive dog Jul 2013 #141

Spying on ALL communication IS unprecedented. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #142

No one is spying on all communications Progressive dog Jul 2013 #143

Directly tapping into the fiber optic trunk lines among other devices usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #145

What part of impossible didn't you get? Progressive dog Jul 2013 #147

I like your poster and I 100% agree with the sentiments Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #66

What's so wrong with comparing Snowden to Revere? reformist2 Jun 2013 #75

That can't be a real questioin, can it? Progressive dog Jun 2013 #76

Paul Revere warned his fellow citizens of an imminent threat to their liberty. So did Snowden. reformist2 Jun 2013 #78

You really don't know any American history Progressive dog Jun 2013 #83

Considering the parallels I think MANY find that it resonates usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #85

See Details On PRISM Tasking And Sources Here cantbeserious Jun 2013 #52

Our spying is ever so helpful to foreign relations. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #57

The Path to Domination fredamae Jun 2013 #81

Unprecedented? On the Road Jun 2013 #88

exactly, this massive, GLOBAL, suspicionless spying of ALL digital and phone communications IS UN usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #90

We have never before had the capability to record every phone call. reusrename Jun 2013 #94

++1000 sikofit3 Jul 2013 #140

+ HiPointDem Jun 2013 #95

kick Liberal_in_LA Jun 2013 #98

Good thread Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #103

It's so incredibly unprecedented that we don't even have evidence that it's happening! randome Jun 2013 #108

You keep using that word... 'evidence' usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #109

The most recent documents we have are slides that show how PRISM works. randome Jun 2013 #114

Which is what this thread is ALL about usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #117

You make all sorts of assumptions in your OP. randome Jun 2013 #125

Nope, just going by what is on the docs, and what other NSA employees have testified about. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #126

'Terrorism' is a term bandied about off-handedly. randome Jun 2013 #130

It's definition has certainly broadened as has the term WMD, and is another BIG RED FLAG usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #131

Always. randome Jun 2013 #136

Actually, NO! The main reason people are against it are because jazzimov Jun 2013 #111

Excuse me? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #115

"Suspicionless spying?" Where is that proven? CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #128

the TOP SECRET documents he released to the press (LINK) usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #129

So, they have to meet conditions to collect on FOREIGN targets, and CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #132

Didn't look like that to the documents and testimony I have read usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #133

What has the "whole rest of the world" been saying? Do tell us! CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #146

K&R forestpath Jun 2013 #134

Alan Grayson video on NSA surveillance Zorra Jun 2013 #135

Excellent video! usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #139

Thanks, Zorra! KoKo Jul 2013 #144