General Discussion

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)

98. I absolutely believe the gun was already out

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:58 PM

Jul 2013

And that is why Martin was so fearful that he felt he needed to get into a physical altercation with this guy. I don't believe it matters who started the physical altercation, and I believe that Zimmerman did going by Rachel's testimony as well as testimony from at least one other witness that they heard talking by two people that was a brief exchange of words (one voice, the other voice responding, and possible the first voice again) before the physical altercation started.

And from the moment that Martin saw Z's gun whether because he drew it or displayed it purposefully or by accident Martin then had every right to physically defend himself from and armed creepy guy that followed him in his car and on foot and then confronted him.

It was that gun that gave Z the courage to get out of his car and chase after Martin, hunt around for him after he lost sight of him, finally confront him when he found him again, and there was no way he was going to allow this person he believed was a criminal, a "fucking punk" up to no good either "get away" or cause him any harm. The whole reason a person carries a gun is to protect themselves from what they perceive as danger which Z already long since perceived with Martin being a dangerous person not necessarily to shoot anyone but to let them know that they had the gun either by displaying it or brandishing it to deter the person from physically harming them. No way did Zimmerman not get out his gun until after getting into a physical altercation with Martin nor getting so beaten up that he was in fear of immanent death. That's exactly what his having that gun was meant to prevent, and he would have used it do that by in whatever way making sure that Martin knew that he had it. I just don't think he believed that the gun would cause Martin to fight for his life... in Z's mind the gun would always instantly subdue to most dangerous of persons the moment they saw it.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

143 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The lie that Zimmerman told that should convict him [View all] Duer 157099 Jul 2013 OP

I'm confused. So if someone says there is not a problem virgogal Jul 2013 #1

Rather than saying "I am neighborhood watch" he basically said he was following for some other uppityperson Jul 2013 #7

ESPECIALLY if that person is armed, right??? Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #41

THANK YOU Skittles Jul 2013 #51

Did Martin know Jenoch Jul 2013 #54

Unfortunately, we may never know. Only one that will tell us was shot dead. Dawgs Jul 2013 #55

Zimmerman needed to identify himself as a Jenoch Jul 2013 #67

That makes sense. I'm still baffled by the fact that Zimmerman did not identify himself. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #90

As I have stated before, Jenoch Jul 2013 #95

No, it sounds like what you're describing is the Stand Your Ground law, not a self defense Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #102

I was not describing stand your ground law. Jenoch Jul 2013 #107

Under the FL statutes it doesn't matter who started it. reusrename Jul 2013 #115

That's interesting. Jenoch Jul 2013 #118

Why didn't Zimmerman Identify Himself? blkrjoe Jul 2013 #142

Indeed!! These are questions that the Zimmerman Cheerleaders refuse to answer. Why? Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #143

"He might not have participated in any altercation had he known" .. "Zimmerman was armed." Dawgs Jul 2013 #120

Zimmerman had prepared by becoming "armed and dangerous." reusrename Jul 2013 #114

Wow. I'm trying to deal with the facts Jenoch Jul 2013 #117

I know, the facts are pretty damning. reusrename Jul 2013 #128

I am unaware of any evidence Jenoch Jul 2013 #131

What other motive is there? reusrename Jul 2013 #132

I think it is more likely Jenoch Jul 2013 #134

Wtf? If he was afraid of him, why did he follow him? reusrename Jul 2013 #135

Watch the trial. Jenoch Jul 2013 #137

I'm terrified that kid is going to kill me, let me follow him. reusrename Jul 2013 #138

Why would I think he had a fantasy about killing someone? Jenoch Jul 2013 #139

It is called the process of elimination. reusrename Jul 2013 #140

You're right, there is NO other explanation for his actions. Jenoch Jul 2013 #141

I'm saying that when TM asked GZ, essentially, why he was following him, GZ denied it Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #10

I think you make an excellent point. crim son Jul 2013 #36

Neighborhood Watch liberal from boston Jul 2013 #44

and he was supposed to recruit others and assign each block a captain and never did either... bettyellen Jul 2013 #74

I certainly agree with you in this instance. I was referring virgogal Jul 2013 #83

Well, it can be somewhat generalized Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #84

yes you are confused demwing Jul 2013 #127

i'm still trying to understand how GZ unholsters his firearm.. frylock Jul 2013 #2

Me too. brush Jul 2013 #12

About the 'head bashing' . . . fleur-de-lisa Jul 2013 #21

Except zimmerman claims Martin was brush Jul 2013 #22

Oh, I agree completely that GZ is a liar. fleur-de-lisa Jul 2013 #24

Yes, and he would have a concussion, possible skull fracture . . . brush Jul 2013 #32

His wounds don't support the repeated bashing senario notadmblnd Jul 2013 #78

Neither does the alleged broken nose. No offensive wounds on Trayvon's hands or knuckles. NONE! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #94

Huh? Jenoch Jul 2013 #108

You need to slow down and re-read what I wrote notadmblnd Jul 2013 #119

Hey nota . . . fleur-de-lisa Jul 2013 #123

That injury could not be from recoil of Zimmerman's pistol. drhobo Jul 2013 #72

We all know who started the confrontation. It was Zimmerman. He admits that he continued to Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #96

O.K., so let's accept for a minute that Trayvon did bash Zimmerman's head.. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #93

The physician's assistant testified that Zimmerman was already seeing a shrink kskiska Jul 2013 #52

Zimmerman was fired from a job as a bouncer because he was too violent. yardwork Jul 2013 #82

History of violence: (1) domestic abuse charge and (2) striking a police officer charge. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #97

Apparently the same way he was able to alsame Jul 2013 #27

simply amazing, isn't it? frylock Jul 2013 #31

I hope the jury picks up on alsame Jul 2013 #34

Only happens if prosecutor introduces them as evidence. HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #56

and reaching for the gun all at the same time. louis-t Jul 2013 #57

was just thinking about that, and per GZ's account, Martin must've had 6 arms.. frylock Jul 2013 #64

Yeah, he had to be a Budda. brush Jul 2013 #103

Not Buddha--he had just two arms. tblue37 Jul 2013 #116

Good catch. Agreed. nt brush Jul 2013 #124

Personally, I think he had his gun out the entire time he was stalking his victim. notadmblnd Jul 2013 #77

I absolutely believe the gun was already out TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #98

ANd shot Martin straight through the torso, hitting the heart dead on csziggy Jul 2013 #111

no kidding. dionysus Jul 2013 #126

He had a few instances where he could have diffused the situation Xyzse Jul 2013 #3

You're joking, right? nt Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #4

The "fry Zimmerman" crowd have checked out Azathoth Jul 2013 #6

Unlike the "zimmy defender" crowd? Is insulting others who have a different opinion really helpful? uppityperson Jul 2013 #9

Different opinions? Sure. But that's not a license to say ridiculous things Azathoth Jul 2013 #11

Oh there are enough Zimmy defenders posting ridiculous things also. uppityperson Jul 2013 #14

how did you feel about OJ? noiretextatique Jul 2013 #13

lol, I think you've got it mixed up Azathoth Jul 2013 #20

What makes you say that? I am curious. uppityperson Jul 2013 #25

What makes you curious? Azathoth Jul 2013 #26

Because I don't see that and wondering why you do. Why do you? uppityperson Jul 2013 #28

Maybe we know different people Azathoth Jul 2013 #29

Why do you say "A lot of the 'fry Zimmerman' folk were the ones chanting 'free OJ' back in the day"? uppityperson Jul 2013 #30

Am I wrong? Did you want OJ convicted? n/t Azathoth Jul 2013 #33

You are not going to answer my previous question. Got it. Thanks for playing. Again. uppityperson Jul 2013 #35

lol, interesting that you wouldn't take the opportunity to prove me wrong Azathoth Jul 2013 #40

lol, interesting that you won't answer a direct question but continue to dodge. uppityperson Jul 2013 #59

that one heaven05 Jul 2013 #65

Hmmm....I don't seem to recall you asking me a straightforward question Azathoth Jul 2013 #86

I didn't heaven05 Jul 2013 #122

What specifically leads you to believe that? LanternWaste Jul 2013 #37

What is the implied correlation? Azathoth Jul 2013 #43

Why do you say this? There's absolutely no correlation. Why would you say something like this? Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #49

i think we all know the reason JI7 Jul 2013 #61

He wrote that he knew people Jenoch Jul 2013 #71

He shouldn't accuse others of the same just because he knows people who supported OJ. It's unfair. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #87

I'm just reading what he wrote. Jenoch Jul 2013 #91

No, I'm offended because he seems to imply race in the two cases. I believe OJ was guilty as hell. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #100

I don't know this guy. Jenoch Jul 2013 #109

There's a double standard Azathoth Jul 2013 #112

Everyone I knew wanted him to be found guilty. Jenoch Jul 2013 #113

What are you talking about? Azathoth Jul 2013 #85

The relationship should not have been made and whoever made it is really sick. One argument Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #89

And once again Azathoth Jul 2013 #92

I answered your question below. Yes, I think OJ is guilty. Yes, I also think Zimmerman is guilty. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #101

lol, see ya Azathoth Jul 2013 #104

No n/t Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #8

+1 blue_heron Jul 2013 #5

zimmerman is banking on racism noiretextatique Jul 2013 #15

Of course he is Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #16

indeed it seems to be the defense strategy noiretextatique Jul 2013 #17

Absolutely he is gollygee Jul 2013 #68

I don't think that's not a prosecutable offense. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #18

Unless it was precipitated by GZ? Then it's excused? Or what? Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #19

How can you establish a desire for confrontation from a non-confrontational response? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #45

GZ himself established a desire for confrontation by his own actions Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #46

Following someone is not a crime. Not having a problem with someone is not a crime. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #47

You act like those things are completely unrelated to what happened. Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #48

They are not, in and of themselves, crimes. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #50

But... Caroline-Vivienne Jul 2013 #58

There's no legal basis for that argument. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #63

yeah heaven05 Jul 2013 #66

If you feel better now perhaps you can move past your emotionalism Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #76

oh please heaven05 Jul 2013 #121

You realize you lose all credibility when you resort to attacking the poster joeglow3 Jul 2013 #125

I honestly believe the intent is to shout down anyone that questions. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #130

Why hasn't the prosecutor advanced the OP's argument? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #129

"And since Zimmerman walked away from the scene without any stitches and didn't need a hospital stay Jenoch Jul 2013 #110

Taken individually, GZ's actions were mostly legal Nevernose Jul 2013 #53

Like the typical troublemaker, he chose to create drama rather than make a genuine, civilized pacalo Jul 2013 #23

He got out of his car, chased the kid and shot him. Rex Jul 2013 #38

" He got out of his car, chased the kid and shot him." Jenoch Jul 2013 #69

I've always had a problem with Z's claim that Trayvon said "You got me" upon being shot. crim son Jul 2013 #39

If anything, I can imagine saying "You SHOT me!" Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #42

Only people in old ganster movies brush Jul 2013 #105

Z's claim that M said "you are going to die tonight" sounds way too self serving. arely staircase Jul 2013 #60

That never happened. H2O Man Jul 2013 #62

if Martin was being followed and was runnig from him B2G Jul 2013 #70

Because he was almost home.... TeeYiYi Jul 2013 #73

Martin was on the phone with his friend....the one who testified last week. He was concerned Grammy23 Jul 2013 #75

How many black teenagers would think to call the cops if they are being chased? yardwork Jul 2013 #79

No kidding. For that matter, white teenagers would also be unlikely to call 911 Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #81

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #80

(facepalm) flvegan Jul 2013 #88

Context is everything Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #99

Really? flvegan Jul 2013 #106

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #133

I'd just like to say... sofa king Jul 2013 #136