General Discussion

BellaKos

(318 posts)

131. No *reasonable* defense

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 01:00 AM

Jul 2013

The Physician's Assistant testified that she was aware that Zimmerman was taking MMA classes three times a week at the time of the incident.
Soooooo ....
If we should believe Z's rendition, when is it reasonable to defend yourself from attack by lying on the ground screaming for help and not fighting back in any way short of using a gun?
And if we should attribute the most sinister of motives to Zimmerman, isn't it quite reasonable to believe that Z was quite aware of the legal reasons for self-defense and, therefore, had his "defense" in mind if he were attacked while on Neighborhood Watch? In other words, he would have known beforehand that if he should lay passively on the ground while screaming for help, he could plead self-defense under the law if attacked and then kill the "f%#kin' punks" with impunity.
Bottom line: Shooting an unarmed teenager in response to any perceived threat is unreasonable. And especially, if you're in your twenties and weigh over 200 pounds and have been taking MMA classes three times a week at the time.

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Its now safe to say...there was never a case against Zimmerman. [View all] BigD_95 Jul 2013 OP

Hmmm, so a citizen decides, by racial profiling he can act like a cop, that makes it ok. Thanks still_one Jul 2013 #1

IMO, the bereaved family will only find justice in a civil court. Here are those who should pay: KittyWampus Jul 2013 #13

The police dispatcher? A poor working stiff who used different phrasing than virgogal Jul 2013 #58

I had no idea the dispatcher was a civilian. Unlike most DU'ers I'm not glued to this case. KittyWampus Jul 2013 #193

FWIW naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #78

He didn't. Adsos Letter Jul 2013 #110

thanks, I have not been following closely. However, protocol should be "stay put, stay safe". KittyWampus Jul 2013 #121

I think the transcript of Serino's interrogation makes it clear Adsos Letter Jul 2013 #126

you cant sue the dispatcher backwoodsbob Jul 2013 #139

"civilian volunteer"? Maybe he was. Maybe he wasn't. Where did you get your information? AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #198

already... handmade34 Jul 2013 #178

Thank You. KittyWampus Jul 2013 #191

About the police dispatcher... SlipperySlope Jul 2013 #187

Thank You. KittyWampus Jul 2013 #192

The HOA already settled. Nt naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #219

Example of forming an opinion not based on facts. Please state the evidence showing he Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #25

Calling him a f**king punk. Do you believe he would have referred to a white guy as that? still_one Jul 2013 #82

when I lived in Detroit backwoodsbob Jul 2013 #140

calling someone a punk is now a racial slur? backwoodsbob Jul 2013 #141

Of course! "Punk" is a totally non-racial term for young men (and sometimes women) who Nay Jul 2013 #175

On one of the tapes of Zimmermans dispacher phone call it can be heard lumpy Jul 2013 #95

Where is the evidence that Martin used racial derogatory terms ? Zimmermans lumpy Jul 2013 #109

punk, not coon drhobo Jul 2013 #167

he called him a c**n. i don't know why there is a concerted effort to pretend he only said HiPointDem Jul 2013 #151

It depends. If his father is a retired judge and his g-father worked for the CIA, the answer is yes. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #55

where did you hear a claim that his g-father was cia? HiPointDem Jul 2013 #153

"Zimmerman's grandfather connected to the CIA - this explains why the murderer is not in jail" AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #169

as i recall there was some discussion of this when the case initially hit the media & it was HiPointDem Jul 2013 #194

Are you saying that another good story has been ruined by the facts? AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #196

nyt reported zimmerman's grandpa was in army intelligence -- just that, without further HiPointDem Jul 2013 #199

I have read a lot of posts that Jenoch Jul 2013 #68

Just curious, do you think he would have assumed Martin was a "punk" if he was white? Just like cab still_one Jul 2013 #85

I don't think the word 'punk' Jenoch Jul 2013 #100

Punk actually has a sexual connotation marshall Jul 2013 #101

I always thought it meant a kid up to Jenoch Jul 2013 #107

Here are some references marshall Jul 2013 #119

Do you think Zimmerman Jenoch Jul 2013 #133

Unfortunately people don't read much anymore marshall Jul 2013 #162

I don't think that feckless and pusillanimous clown got past Dr Seuss... DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2013 #172

I'm curious about the regional aspect of Tien1985 Jul 2013 #123

I've seen a reference of Jack Kerouac using it as a synonym for gay marshall Jul 2013 #125

What are you basing that off of? Pelican Jul 2013 #147

I agree marshall Jul 2013 #163

Point taken... Pelican Jul 2013 #166

'more recently' = circa 1920. it's not used that way currently. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #157

it was the "hoodie", but regardless that could be argued either way also. In addition, Zimmerman still_one Jul 2013 #104

Zimmerman was not told not to pursue. Jenoch Jul 2013 #117

Alert for trouble is different than looking for trouble, that is what I meant still_one Jul 2013 #120

"Zimmerman was not told not to pursue." Adsos Letter Jul 2013 #127

I have read where Zimmerman agreed Jenoch Jul 2013 #134

I believe they played that portion of the Serino interrogation today Adsos Letter Jul 2013 #137

"If you have some information to the contrary..." Adsos Letter Jul 2013 #114

Now THIS guy is a Punk FrodosPet Jul 2013 #135

this thread is the first time in my 48 years backwoodsbob Jul 2013 #142

It is when said by a bigot with gun about to shoot an unarmed black kid. Hoyt Jul 2013 #189

Even thepolice oficer on the stand felt it wasnt racial profiling BigD_95 Jul 2013 #161

LOL, yes, I always trust the police. Gullible much? n-t Logical Jul 2013 #202

Wow. You are totally WRONG. Tx4obama Jul 2013 #2

Correct. Dawson Leery Jul 2013 #3

+1,000 n/t malaise Jul 2013 #10

I'm afraid you've not been listening to the witnesses. A witness testified it was TM on top Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #27

It was Zimmerman that attended mixed martial arts (MMA) three times a week, not TM Tx4obama Jul 2013 #45

and the police knew that Zimmerman was pursuing Martin not the other way around. nt Lex Jul 2013 #66

Yeah, that would've been irritating to TM, as he said to his friend on the phone. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #76

You are allowed to defend yourself if someone else is an imminent threat. If you are in fear Lex Jul 2013 #80

I'm pretty sure the other person has to directly threaten you, like point a gun or something. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #200

If Trayvon saw Zimmerman's gun, he damn sure had a right to hit Lex Jul 2013 #207

That, I don't know. I don't know what the law is on that, in FL. But first... Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #218

That is not true. Rachel, the girl on the phone, did NOT say that. Tx4obama Jul 2013 #105

not the first time either HiPointDem Jul 2013 #154

because Rachel said Trayvon was at the house drhobo Jul 2013 #168

Yes...who hit who first is very important. A guy following another guy, and the 2nd guy getting Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #203

The account I read said that TM told her, angrily, that a cracker was following him. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #201

That may be. But the FACT is that there is an eyewitness who has testified it was TM on top. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #70

Principle should be (hope it is)"clean hands". truebluegreen Jul 2013 #91

you make stuff up, so please don't lecture people about evidence. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #155

And there is a witness who says the opposite. nt Lex Jul 2013 #65

No, there is not. There is only one eyewitness to the fight. The neighbor who opened his door... Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #72

Have all the witnesses testified? Lex Jul 2013 #74

all that saw anything significant drhobo Jul 2013 #170

Not the testimony dpibel Jul 2013 #97

I don't think Z was overweight at the time of the shooting Adsos Letter Jul 2013 #118

He was technically obese at the time of the shooting drhobo Jul 2013 #171

He didn't look overweight the night of the crime. He's gained over 100 #'s since then. Auntie Bush Jul 2013 #243

Oh FFS rufus dog Jul 2013 #130

he's overweight now, he wasn't then. and other witnesses said different. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #152

It is flat out not possible to pummel someone and not get their DNA all over you eridani Jul 2013 #180

It doesn't fucking matter who was in "MMA TRAINING". It matters who has seen an MMA fight. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2013 #64

I'm no Zimmerman defender Jenoch Jul 2013 #73

There were two moderately significant inconsistencies Tx4obama Jul 2013 #113

Also Tx4obama Jul 2013 #116

And the person who had the other in an MMA hold and such skills is the one with the busted nose dkf Jul 2013 #106

his nose wasn't busted. it's obvious that it wasn't from the pictures days after the incident. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #156

Interesting list of who is telling you you are wrong. Only missing a couple. uppityperson Jul 2013 #108

He is a stalker and a murderer, but he probably will go free... immoderate Jul 2013 #4

Actually, GZ wasn't breaking the law in following TM. It's yet to be decided if he's a murderer. nt Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #28

ok we get it CatWoman Jul 2013 #30

She needs time to get her robes back from the cleaners. LeftyMom Jul 2013 #136

Right. Antagonizing is legal. And when attacked, you can freely shoot the n*****! immoderate Jul 2013 #41

and what about those magic bushes Trayvon leapt out of CatWoman Jul 2013 #42

The irony is strong with this one Azathoth Jul 2013 #158

I do. But I think the system works as well as we'll get. immoderate Jul 2013 #190

Well, this one should be fun to watch tularetom Jul 2013 #5

Have you read the transcripts or listened to the audio recordings? justiceischeap Jul 2013 #6

Sorry, but his story has been consistent, with only minor inconsistencies. Everything points Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #34

Using a lawyer or not using a lawyer does NOT go to credibility or guilt/innocence. pnwmom Jul 2013 #43

That's not true, really. He didn't just give one statement. He gave two, and then allowed videotapin Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #215

I think the police bungled the case right from the beginning, pnwmom Jul 2013 #221

So what? I can tell the same lie to save my skin, too. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #210

Not really. Cops will tell you...someone telling the truth will have minor inconsistencies Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #216

Well, okay, then. But Z has claimed both that TM said, "You got me!" AND that he, Z, was unaware if WinkyDink Jul 2013 #222

The jury can find that GZ is lying and uncredible. Or that he is telling the truth. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #223

He IDENTIFIES with the cops.....of course, he's going to willingly talk to them. Th1onein Jul 2013 #230

That is irrelevant to the fact that he willingly put his version of events on tape & video.... Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #233

It's very relevant, on the contrary. Th1onein Jul 2013 #236

No, I'm afraid you're not listening to the evidence. TM was angry that he was being followed.... Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #244

SMH notadmblnd Jul 2013 #7

Mmm... RedSpartan Jul 2013 #8

Whut. Starry Messenger Jul 2013 #9

Such a huge bucket of FAIL. NightWatcher Jul 2013 #11

You are so wrong. bravenak Jul 2013 #12

If TM assaulted him, he was justified in defending himself. There's no evid. he intended to kill him Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #40

The evidence he intended to kill him is that he shot him through the heart. pnwmom Jul 2013 #47

Not to nitpick... Abq_Sarah Jul 2013 #138

That's at a distance. He shot Trayvon at point blank range. n/t pnwmom Jul 2013 #144

Wow. Just Saying Jul 2013 #49

you're very generous in your description of "poorly" CatWoman Jul 2013 #51

And every other Trayvon thread. Moses2SandyKoufax Jul 2013 #54

perhaps he wants to see his donations to Zimmerman's defense fund CatWoman Jul 2013 #57

Perhaps, Moses2SandyKoufax Jul 2013 #62

Just trying to stay within the rules. Just Saying Jul 2013 #56

If Martin was defending himself from a stranger pursing him... krispos42 Jul 2013 #71

"...what choice did he have but to try to grab it before his stalker could?" Jenoch Jul 2013 #94

It's still murder. bravenak Jul 2013 #77

2 syllables, the first is BULL jazzimov Jul 2013 #14

What a bunch of bullshit. Zoeisright Jul 2013 #15

+1 handmade34 Jul 2013 #183

Zimmerman should be found guilty quinnox Jul 2013 #16

As opposed to what? RZM Jul 2013 #132

Excuse me, what trial are you watching? Ilsa Jul 2013 #17

He was watching the same one I was watching. I don't think you're watching it. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #44

I didn't say he committed second degree murder, but Ilsa Jul 2013 #81

I'm not convinced, either. I'm thinking maybe criminal negligence? Or something like that. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #89

Loaded, safety off, was my understanding. nt Ilsa Jul 2013 #92

The weapon is designed to be carried that way safely. Llewlladdwr Jul 2013 #149

Is there corroborating evidence that Ilsa Jul 2013 #177

No. There is contradicting testimony..... Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #182

Just GZ's account of that, as far as I know. TM's not here to give his version. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #204

Thank goodness there are trials. GeorgeGist Jul 2013 #159

Whatever happened, he didn't intend to kill TM. Thank goodness there are trials, for sure. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #205

Yeah, right. Gemini Cat Jul 2013 #18

So, were YOU there? Blue_In_AK Jul 2013 #19

AND CatWoman Jul 2013 #20

All of the evidence hasn't been presented yet. pintobean Jul 2013 #21

I agree. I'm not prepared to declare him not guilty. But we're finding out things that are new. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #46

Damn near everything so far pintobean Jul 2013 #53

Apparently Zimmerman's legal defense fund went to hiring sockpuppets on message boards. nt killbotfactory Jul 2013 #22

LOL gollygee Jul 2013 #38

Poor Use Of Funds If You Ask Me HangOnKids Jul 2013 #96

DUzy! Th1onein Jul 2013 #231

Yet another billh58 Jul 2013 #23

+1 gollygee Jul 2013 #36

GZ wasn't breaking the law when he was carrying a weapon and calling someone in to the cops Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #50

Yeah, we get it billh58 Jul 2013 #59

+1000 CatWoman Jul 2013 #61

+ a billion. bravenak Jul 2013 #86

^^ THIS ^^ Dawgs Jul 2013 #184

Prepare to be shocked when the verdict comes in, is all I can say. nt DeschutesRiver Jul 2013 #24

FAIL. Arugula Latte Jul 2013 #26

Well... I suppose... opiate69 Jul 2013 #29

As a ranter this is a sad Freeper Fail! Begone troll!-NT Anansi1171 Jul 2013 #31

Pathetic. yardwork Jul 2013 #32

From watching CNN it seems so Renew Deal Jul 2013 #33

They also called it that Casey Anthony would be found 100% unanimously guilty. Jamastiene Jul 2013 #186

Baloney. GoneFishin Jul 2013 #35

hunt kid down, shoot him elehhhhna Jul 2013 #37

I think he was guilty but the police made deliberate choices to shelter him. pnwmom Jul 2013 #39

Thanks for the laugh. nt Lex Jul 2013 #48

WTF? I think you forgot the sarcasm tag. nt Demo_Chris Jul 2013 #52

THE CASE BECAME A CONCRETE ONE THE MOMENT HE PULLED THE TRIGGER. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2013 #60

What a bunch of Bollocks..he's a child killer.. HipChick Jul 2013 #63

Oh FFS. Apophis Jul 2013 #67

Ollie, Ollie Oxen Free CatWoman Jul 2013 #69

It is highly controversial and silly to pretend it's safe to conclude anything treestar Jul 2013 #75

Horseshit. 99Forever Jul 2013 #79

Nice hit and run OP... not. nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #83

it's cowardly Lex Jul 2013 #84

like all gun humpers Skittles Jul 2013 #90

Trashing this very racist thread. Welcome to IGNORE. Enjoy replying to yourself. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #87

UTTER BULLSHIT Skittles Jul 2013 #88

Yoo Hoo! Where are u? bravenak Jul 2013 #93

Hey, I recognize you BainsBane Jul 2013 #98

Another gun humper fail RetroLounge Jul 2013 #99

Dafuq? WilliamPitt Jul 2013 #102

Another reliable witness claims she witnessed the person on top, during lumpy Jul 2013 #103

didn't look to good for him today nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #111

Kewl story bro! Rex Jul 2013 #112

Off to ignore you go Marrah_G Jul 2013 #115

it's not safe to say it's now safe to say. spanone Jul 2013 #122

Zimmerman may be guilty.... Calista241 Jul 2013 #124

The Results Are In? If Not HangOnKids Jul 2013 #143

hey Big D Enrique Jul 2013 #128

Bullshit talks, Zimmerman walks. HolyMoley Jul 2013 #129

No *reasonable* defense BellaKos Jul 2013 #131

The videos today didn't help either LittleBlue Jul 2013 #145

They were forced to take a case they couldn't win marshall Jul 2013 #165

Uh-oh Azathoth Jul 2013 #146

Zimmerman is in front of a jury of his peers AgingAmerican Jul 2013 #148

it's not a bit clear. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #150

He STALKED and SHOT and KILLED an UNARMED MAN. Rosco T. Jul 2013 #160

I would convict him of manslaughter, even with the evidence presented (maybe murder too)... Sancho Jul 2013 #164

He had a gun with the safety off. naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #220

What is lost on many... NCTraveler Jul 2013 #173

Let's start with the ultimate fact and then move backwards: Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #174

I think JustAnotherGen Jul 2013 #181

Was he aquitted? nt Deep13 Jul 2013 #176

Only if you're on the jury loyalsister Jul 2013 #179

What the hell?? OwnedByCats Jul 2013 #185

feel better? CatWoman Jul 2013 #197

I'm fine, but if you're someone who OwnedByCats Jul 2013 #228

Kind of like you billh58 Jul 2013 #208

I haven't ASSUMED anything OwnedByCats Jul 2013 #225

What I find interesting are the posters who think like you. Same old, same old. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #213

Who think like me? OwnedByCats Jul 2013 #226

Much as when Zimmerman assumed he could get away with financial fraud. LanternWaste Jul 2013 #240

I've noticed a lot of Z defenders are doing so due to personal experiences apples and oranges Jul 2013 #235

Zimmerman hunted down an unarmed law-abiding kid and shot him - dead jpak Jul 2013 #188

It's a sad day when you can't walk to a friend's house... allin99 Jul 2013 #195

Even if he is found innocent of criminal charges... roamer65 Jul 2013 #206

"You were not there." Neither were the jurors. Duh. And we are watching the same trial they are. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #209

huh? that is the stupidest thing I ever heard Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #211

There was testimony devastating to GZ's case today shawn703 Jul 2013 #212

I'm sorry to say that you have been completely fooled by all the bullshit out there. AverageJoe90 Jul 2013 #214

BigD... I Give You A BigF... ChiciB1 Jul 2013 #217

sad to say, I am no longer shocked. There are people here on DU who desperately want to CTyankee Jul 2013 #224

You are wrong. Dead ass wrong, in fact. Th1onein Jul 2013 #227

With an affirmative defense, reasonable doubt DOES apply to the prosecution Shrek Jul 2013 #237

This is a PROPOSED amendment. You are aware of that? Th1onein Jul 2013 #238

According to the article, the proposal is just a clarification of existing language Shrek Jul 2013 #241

There was never a case for MURDER II, but my understnading of FL law BlueStreak Jul 2013 #229

Armed man shoots unarmed man = MURDER B Calm Jul 2013 #232

Whether he is a racist or not is irrelevant. He still stalked and killed an unarmed teen apples and oranges Jul 2013 #234

Were that the case, it does seem to beg the question LanternWaste Jul 2013 #239

I don't think there is any doubt that charge were filed... NaturalHigh Jul 2013 #242