General Discussion

michreject

(4,378 posts)

13. How dare you inject facts into the thread

Reply to The Straight Story (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 09:05 AM

Jul 2013

Have you no shame?

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

297 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Google "people shot this week" . [View all] DainBramaged Jul 2013 OP

If you ask me, everything against the president is because of the gun issue...the NRA knows graham4anything Jul 2013 #1

Making guns illegal won't stop the carnage. michreject Jul 2013 #2

Well then, let's make murder a right under the 2nd Ammendment! Walk away Jul 2013 #3

Of course it won't, and you folks will cheer every Zimmerman that pops up DainBramaged Jul 2013 #4

Damn. michreject Jul 2013 #6

Like corn syrup. Creeps into everything. Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #33

This could be a thread about the weather CokeMachine Jul 2013 #235

We probably should repeal all laws then. Blanks Jul 2013 #19

will it reduce it? booley Jul 2013 #291

If some violent criminals were shot during home invasions, GOOD! Google "home invasions this week." AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #5

What is it about some people's obsession about violence and death being A-OK? RC Jul 2013 #7

That's contrary to the govt policy of letting violent criminals return to the streets while AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #10

I always root for the victim/underdog. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #22

Yep -- I always thought of that as being progressive. Maybe I'm wrong?? nt CokeMachine Jul 2013 #236

The miscreants that break into you home mean you no harm michreject Jul 2013 #8

Yes, just making social calls. And when they take their violent criminal activies to other people's AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #11

And Sandy Hook was a movie mikeysnot Jul 2013 #15

Okay, cue NRA talking points about guns from Gundamentalists in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. . . Nanjing to Seoul Jul 2013 #9

In 2007, 385,178 total firearm crimes were committed.... The Straight Story Jul 2013 #12

How dare you inject facts into the thread michreject Jul 2013 #13

A consideration of facts will slow this down. Not to worry, though, because facts will be ignored by AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #14

So how many deaths do you regard as acceptable? intaglio Jul 2013 #16

If that was the crux of the debate it would be a valid question The Straight Story Jul 2013 #17

Cars have many uses, so does coal, so do knives etc etc intaglio Jul 2013 #18

There are many lawful uses for guns hack89 Jul 2013 #20

No subject FunkyLeprechaun Jul 2013 #21

Well, as long as it's ok with you. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #25

So what is your solution? hack89 Jul 2013 #26

Heller will be overturned FunkyLeprechaun Jul 2013 #34

You hang on to that dream hack89 Jul 2013 #36

I'm not sure why you think Heller is going to stay FunkyLeprechaun Jul 2013 #44

There has been no sea change in America regarding gun control. hack89 Jul 2013 #47

Polling data says otherwise BainsBane Jul 2013 #264

Not on major issues like registration and an AWB hack89 Jul 2013 #268

You mean in MacDonald vs. City of Chigago? AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #54

Where's the indication of that? michreject Jul 2013 #194

All of your lawful uses require that projectiles be propelled with sufficient force intaglio Jul 2013 #48

So? hack89 Jul 2013 #50

And that is relevant how? intaglio Jul 2013 #53

Perfectly good reasons to have guns hack89 Jul 2013 #56

Competition, training, recreation, self-defense AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #59

I am pointing out that the sole purpose of a working gun intaglio Jul 2013 #63

And I am saying that those are acceptable purposes in the vast majority of cases. hack89 Jul 2013 #65

Acceptable does not change the effect intaglio Jul 2013 #75

Since only a tiny fraction of guns are used in unacceptable ways hack89 Jul 2013 #77

OK, assign a value to the lives intaglio Jul 2013 #81

All criminal acts are unacceptable hack89 Jul 2013 #95

But you are making the argument that the vast majority of "responsible" owners intaglio Jul 2013 #101

Counting just criminal acts - .00002% nt hack89 Jul 2013 #107

About 600 deaths. Ah but those are not the only gun deaths, are they? intaglio Jul 2013 #121

That's where we are heading towards. hack89 Jul 2013 #122

You are ascribing intent. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #71

But there was intent on the part of the weapon designer and manufacturer intaglio Jul 2013 #76

Completely made up. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #80

Name that weapon intaglio Jul 2013 #83

It is an AR-15 AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #87

Also, I could fix bayonet and stab someone with it, so inclined. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #93

so the original design of an AR15 is not to damage injure or kill intaglio Jul 2013 #94

Not in mine they don't. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #100

so you are telling me that there are absolutely NO aftermarket parts intaglio Jul 2013 #110

That's exactly my point. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #111

Fine but it is faster and easier to do so if you have the base from which to work n/t intaglio Jul 2013 #123

I usually make automotive related parts. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #127

So, by your own argument you AR15 could rapidly revert to being lethal intaglio Jul 2013 #131

So could a solid block of steel. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #135

Rapidly ... intaglio Jul 2013 #172

Let's see, a couple hours on the CNC or AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #174

Hours or days finding the plans to input intaglio Jul 2013 #185

Wait, I thought people were making these with hand tools in the Khyber Pass. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #188

You're the one who brought up CNC machining intaglio Jul 2013 #195

The sole use of an auto is to tranport cargo from on point to another. oneshooter Jul 2013 #106

Oh, the old "Cars is more dangerous than guns argument" intaglio Jul 2013 #128

Math says: cars. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #137

How many hours a day do you spend in and round moving cars? intaglio Jul 2013 #181

I spend more time around my guns. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #183

In Use intaglio Jul 2013 #189

So, 'in use' means what, pulling the trigger now? AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #191

So walking by the nearest armoury would qualify you as a supreme survivor? intaglio Jul 2013 #201

I don't drive a car. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #202

How about when a guns is being transported to the range?? CokeMachine Jul 2013 #245

You really must stop using statistics intaglio Jul 2013 #251

A car is NOT DESIGNED to KILL. However it manages to do so daily. oneshooter Jul 2013 #203

Exactly, a gun is designed to damage injure and kill intaglio Jul 2013 #206

Probably makes a difference to the animal, target, or person. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #61

It does not change the purpose of the gun intaglio Jul 2013 #64

Purpose is in the eye of the person holding it. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #67

Apparently all of my guns are broken then. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #24

Are your guns capable of issuing a projectile? intaglio Jul 2013 #49

Capable, yes. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #52

Doesn't matter, the purpose of a gun is to damge injure and kill intaglio Jul 2013 #55

Again, not true. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #57

Not suitable does not mean they cannot perform their purpose intaglio Jul 2013 #66

Given that you don't know what you are talking about AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #68

Oh, where am I wrong? intaglio Jul 2013 #72

That is absurd. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #74

A weapon is not just the barrel intaglio Jul 2013 #78

And guns need not soley be used to kill. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #82

Prove it, name the weapon. intaglio Jul 2013 #85

SIRT-AR Bolt equipped AR-15. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #90

What of shaving? intaglio Jul 2013 #69

Still cutting and stabbing. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #70

So now it is about usage as well then? Or is it.... The Straight Story Jul 2013 #29

Your response at number 12 concentrated entirely on the apparent sparsity of gun crime intaglio Jul 2013 #51

Except of course civilians are not permitted Destructive Devices. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #58

At this point it should be obvious that someone above is simply trolling The Straight Story Jul 2013 #249

Gun owners are 13 times more deadly than car owners. Robb Jul 2013 #23

And we license every gun owner that carries concealed in all but 3 states. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #27

We license gun owners that carry in public hack89 Jul 2013 #28

Oh, just talking fatalities? 0.006% then fur guns The Straight Story Jul 2013 #30

0.9% for cars on Injuries alone: The Straight Story Jul 2013 #31

Apple, meet Orange. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #32

I thought mere safety wasn't worth giving up rights for? (nt) Recursion Jul 2013 #35

So a few should die so you can have your gun? DainBramaged Jul 2013 #37

I'm for gun registration. I'm talking about the arguments I see on DU that giving up liberty ... Recursion Jul 2013 #38

You didn't answer my question, you tried to circumvent it with a curve ball DainBramaged Jul 2013 #39

I don't have guns, and I support gun registration Recursion Jul 2013 #40

And neither did yours. DainBramaged Jul 2013 #41

OK, so your answer is "Life trumps 'freedom'". Recursion Jul 2013 #42

apples and lead DainBramaged Jul 2013 #45

People have died for my right to own a firearm michreject Jul 2013 #43

Should they continue to die for that right? DainBramaged Jul 2013 #46

That sounds a lot like the religious argument that I should believe just in case so my AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #60

crime statistics prove that guns kill 38,000 people a year BainsBane Jul 2013 #73

Keep inflating that number. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #79

Suicide is in fact a crime BainsBane Jul 2013 #84

An average? From when? AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #89

An average over the past couple of decades BainsBane Jul 2013 #97

"and federal statisticians expect a further drop when 1996 reports are complete." AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #102

No, it's an argument for background checks BainsBane Jul 2013 #105

Most of that is already in place. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #108

Not true BainsBane Jul 2013 #115

Bullshit it's not true. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #126

Read the NYTimes article BainsBane Jul 2013 #136

I dont give a shit what the New York Times got wrong. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #138

You don't give a shit, period BainsBane Jul 2013 #141

Clearly you cannot be bothered to look at supreme court decisions or a simple link AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #143

a law means fuck all if it isn't enforced BainsBane Jul 2013 #146

It is enforced. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #148

What the hell is wrong with me is you are ignoring the evidence in front of you BainsBane Jul 2013 #150

The Lautenberg Act applies to every single fucking citizen. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #156

Your link says it doesn't violate WA law BainsBane Jul 2013 #160

Correct. Meaning, it applies here. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #161

File a complaint with the Civil Rights Division? BainsBane Jul 2013 #162

And a state law would do what? AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #164

I'm not necessarily talking about law BainsBane Jul 2013 #167

I can't defend the NRA here. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #173

Let's say there are police departments unaware of this law. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #168

I'm glad to hear that BainsBane Jul 2013 #178

It concerns me that we expend resources where they are effective. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #182

Well, that was evidently a pointless suggestion on my part BainsBane Jul 2013 #225

If registration was the crux of your point AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #232

No BainsBane Jul 2013 #238

I see expending maximum effort on practical legislation as AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #244

It has nothing to do with policy, in this particular case BainsBane Jul 2013 #246

No I didn't. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #247

There is one, and only one weakness to this law. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #163

So you're not interested in what states actually do BainsBane Jul 2013 #132

I care what the law says. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #139

Okay, so as long as a statute somewhere say something BainsBane Jul 2013 #144

Making it double-illegal doesn't protect you. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #145

So read the fucking article BainsBane Jul 2013 #147

I did. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #149

So how did those women die? BainsBane Jul 2013 #151

Wikipedia is not wrong about this. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #152

No, I'm not a lawyer BainsBane Jul 2013 #155

I can't explain the NRA's actions. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #158

This article talks about surrendering guns, do you get it? BainsBane Jul 2013 #157

If you have a DV related restraining order AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #159

Perhaps you should tell the NRA to quit working BainsBane Jul 2013 #165

Then they are not upholding the law. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #171

I know a bit about the difference between law and practice BainsBane Jul 2013 #176

They may not enforce the law. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #179

I think, though, that there are two gaps between the federal law and what petronius Jul 2013 #186

The 'temporary/hearing' issue was abrogated by appeals court. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #190

More from the Times BainsBane Jul 2013 #169

And all of that is overridden by the federal statute. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #175

Perhaps you should tell that to the judges involved BainsBane Jul 2013 #177

I'll be happy to. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #180

Can you cite some state penal codes that list suicide/attempted suicide as an actual crime? petronius Jul 2013 #112

Does it matter? She lumped in suicide with murder, and explained that - big deal. jmg257 Jul 2013 #116

From Wikipedia BainsBane Jul 2013 #118

I found that - I was actually curious about your statement that it's included petronius Jul 2013 #120

I actually thought it was still on the criminal statues BainsBane Jul 2013 #124

So, it's not illegal then. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #140

Not according to common law BainsBane Jul 2013 #153

An excuse not to pay out on a life insurance policy does not constitute a 'crime'. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #154

Where did the additional 8K come form? michreject Jul 2013 #197

So you decide whether I belong or not michreject Jul 2013 #193

You can't even reply with an honest answer, just a corny deflection DainBramaged Jul 2013 #210

I googled "dead children since Sandy Hook" OldEurope Jul 2013 #62

Google "Gallup Poll reason why Democrats own guns" AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #86

The gun nuts are going crazy intaglio Jul 2013 #88

Accurate as always. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #91

Unlike you and your AR 15 that's not designed to d,i or k n/t intaglio Jul 2013 #96

It's a shame you didn't know what you were talking about. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #104

The AR15 is designed to kill intaglio Jul 2013 #129

Again, you do not understand. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #134

So it would take longer to machine a new upper than a full waepon? intaglio Jul 2013 #170

I own one with all the POTENTIAL to do all of those things. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #199

Oooooohhhhh!!!!!! michreject Jul 2013 #198

Google "number of people influenced by the use of the term "gun nuts" AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #98

Sorry, but lots of people are also influence by the term "socialist" intaglio Jul 2013 #103

Good. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #109

To keep their precious, gun deaths are acceptable DainBramaged Jul 2013 #117

Google "Gallup Poll number of Democrats who own guns" AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #92

Oddly murder rates were higher before the gun was invented One_Life_To_Give Jul 2013 #99

Cue "go back to the Gungeon, NRA talking point" post in 3...2...1... n/t bobclark86 Jul 2013 #113

Well obviously a certain level of child deaths are acceptable to you intaglio Jul 2013 #114

It's already pretty low. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #119

So you are saying that over 6,400 deaths per annum are acceptable intaglio Jul 2013 #125

Acceptable is your word, not mine. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #130

you were the one who quoted figures to support your argument intaglio Jul 2013 #133

0 deaths are acceptable to me. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #142

So you regard 6,400 deaths as a fair price to pay for your civil liberties intaglio Jul 2013 #166

It's actually a hell of a lot less than that depending on how you define 'child'. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #184

So adults don't count intaglio Jul 2013 #187

You started this thread fork crying about children. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #192

The thread began by mentioning deaths - the hint is in the OP intaglio Jul 2013 #196

Worth? AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #200

OK so why do you support a no change to the second amendment? intaglio Jul 2013 #204

I'm open to a debate/discussion on altering the 2nd amendment. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #208

Yeah! Taking away our "Civil Liberties"! rdharma Jul 2013 #211

^^This^^ intaglio Jul 2013 #214

I have no idea what the NRA is up to. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #215

The NRA used to be a firearms safety and training organization. rdharma Jul 2013 #226

I agree. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #227

Well...... rdharma Jul 2013 #231

Kind of a silly statement... EX500rider Jul 2013 #205

Swimming pools are not designed to damage, injure and kill intaglio Jul 2013 #207

So, device that outnumbers humans in the US, and is as you said, 'designed to kill' AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #209

So a device that is owned by far fewer humans than there are devices ... intaglio Jul 2013 #216

Handwave away all you want. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #217

How many hours do kids spend in pools? Don't try using statistics intaglio Jul 2013 #220

What does hours in pools have to do with it? AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #221

Same as hours in and around cars and hours around guns intaglio Jul 2013 #223

You're being silly. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #224

Time and numbers intaglio Jul 2013 #234

You didn't even answer my question AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #241

Do you want me to take it one word at a time? intaglio Jul 2013 #254

Intent matters. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #258

So you carry your gun to protect human life intaglio Jul 2013 #260

I may also protect human life by taking predatory non-human animal life. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #262

This changes nothing except exposing, again, how you puff yourself up intaglio Jul 2013 #266

You don't know what I do for a living. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #269

I did not make any assumptions about your living intaglio Jul 2013 #276

You realize there are people employed by the state for the purposes of eliminating predatory animals AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #285

Number of pools doesn't matter, as I showed intaglio Jul 2013 #256

Number of pools is directly relevant to figuring out AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #289

Nearly right, intaglio Jul 2013 #292

I don't quite get that argument either.. EX500rider Jul 2013 #212

By design guns are meant to damage, injure and kill intaglio Jul 2013 #219

Hunting isn't a civil right. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #222

We are talking about guns, not hunting intaglio Jul 2013 #229

I didn't say anything about 'sport'. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #230

An in another post I pointed out how inefficient fodder hunting is. intaglio Jul 2013 #233

Your definition. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #243

Citation needed intaglio Jul 2013 #252

I highly doubt AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #253

So support your argument about fodder hunting intaglio Jul 2013 #255

No point. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #259

As I pointed out - you are not Superman intaglio Jul 2013 #261

'chance'. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #263

And far more innocents have died than bad guys intaglio Jul 2013 #267

Died, yes. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #270

You've come one step intaglio Jul 2013 #274

There are also a lot of lawful DGU's in which no one is killed. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #284

To go back to a false equivalence intaglio Jul 2013 #287

False only because you reject the analogy. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #288

It is not an analogy, it is not even a metaphor it is false equivalence intaglio Jul 2013 #290

I presume you are referring only to accidental deaths? AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #293

No, because the victim has to be acted against intaglio Jul 2013 #294

And someone placed involuntarily underwater in the pool? AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #295

Nope, you might find a closer parallel intaglio Jul 2013 #297

Univ of Warwick Long Term Historical trends in violent crime One_Life_To_Give Jul 2013 #271

Fine, so what level of death amongst young people due to guns is acceptable? intaglio Jul 2013 #273

0.2 per 100,000 threshold? One_Life_To_Give Jul 2013 #275

So in excess of 6000 deaths per annum intaglio Jul 2013 #277

Beating Carnot Efficiency would be nice too One_Life_To_Give Jul 2013 #279

Please note that I did give the correct figure later in the post intaglio Jul 2013 #280

Guns are irrelevant to the 0.2 Rate One_Life_To_Give Jul 2013 #281

I asked what rate you found acceptable and that was the figure you gave intaglio Jul 2013 #282

Public Perception of the acceptability of using Lethal Force One_Life_To_Give Jul 2013 #283

I can see clearly who the NRA hacks are in this thread..... DainBramaged Jul 2013 #213

^^K&R^^ Progressive dog Jul 2013 #218

and pretend those who die really don't BainsBane Jul 2013 #228

or that the deaths are, comparitively, so few intaglio Jul 2013 #237

Indeed BainsBane Jul 2013 #239

anchor a statement in self-rightousness and knee jerk, get this OP. galileoreloaded Jul 2013 #240

Are you just a drive-by poster? intaglio Jul 2013 #257

Nope BainsBane Jul 2013 #265

Just another gunner showing us a mirror image of themselves DainBramaged Jul 2013 #286

Such words alienate One_Life_To_Give Jul 2013 #272

I don't give a shit DainBramaged Jul 2013 #278

Your notion of tyrannical gun control BainsBane Jul 2013 #296

I already told the NRA that I didn't want to hear from them again......... rdharma Jul 2013 #242

20 pound bag of manure? DainBramaged Jul 2013 #248

Along those lines! rdharma Jul 2013 #250