General Discussion

ProSense

(116,464 posts)

39. I have to admit

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:51 PM

Jul 2013

"Still unwilling to explain your change of heart regarding Bush's domestic spying and the the FISA Bill amendment that was, as you said correctly, nothing more than a cover for his crimes. Airc, you said 'they can't do that'. But they did, didn't they? And Obama voted for it. After speaking out so eloquently against it. That nearly lost him the election back then, but we had so little choice. "

...when you raised the issue here (http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3149401), I thought it a single act of desperation. Clearly I was wrong.

I mean, you apparently are resorting to a failed gotcha:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3122617

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3134799

Desperation must be setting in big time.

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There�s a Secret Patriot Act, Senator Says [View all] East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 OP

has Wyden been fully thrown under the bus on this site yet? villager Jul 2013 #1

IMO more ignored than thrown under the bus but then again being ignored as a Dem Senator think Jul 2013 #9

Give it time. The list of Liberal/Democrats under the bus, along with every Civil Rights organizatio sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #13

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #60

This message was self-deleted by its author trueblue2007 Jul 2013 #81

He has a funny last name. Sounds foreign. nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #105

They are not done with GG and ES yet. MuseRider Jul 2013 #54

Does Wyden have a girlfriend? Maybe we can slutshame her Taft_Bathtub Jul 2013 #71

Yes! DeSwiss Jul 2013 #98

Slutshame? Really? merrily Jul 2013 #112

Nope. LWolf Jul 2013 #90

You just want Palin for President! villager Jul 2013 #91

Of course! LWolf Jul 2013 #92

If he wasn't before, he has been on this thread. merrily Jul 2013 #113

kick for my senator Wyden. grasswire Jul 2013 #2

I cetainly wish we ahd one like himhere in California. n/t truedelphi Jul 2013 #87

So is Wyden going to put a "hold" on it? BumRushDaShow Jul 2013 #3

That would be hard since the article is from 2011. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #6

LOL BumRushDaShow Jul 2013 #11

Ah, the early signs of the smearing of yet another Democrat who dares to speak out about sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #14

What "smear"? BumRushDaShow Jul 2013 #21

No, legislation can't be stopped with a 'hold'. former9thward Jul 2013 #44

Plus, Wyden was talking about a secret interpretation of a law. merrily Jul 2013 #111

Filibustering and Secret Holds fredamae Jul 2013 #61

And this is from June of this year: sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #15

Doesn't change the fact that the OP article is from 2011. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #19

What it doesn't change is that most Democrats have remained consistent in their oppostiion sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #24

Here, ProSense Jul 2013 #27

Still unwilling to explain your change of heart regarding Bush's domestic spying and the sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #36

I have to admit ProSense Jul 2013 #39

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #55

FAIL ProSense Jul 2013 #57

So that's a no then? truebrit71 Jul 2013 #59

No, it's calling out desperation. ProSense Jul 2013 #66

I didn't raise the issue. It was very interesting though to see how opposed you were to sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #76

Well, ProSense Jul 2013 #77

There is nothing more disingenuous than taking a principled stand on an issue sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #83

What ProSense Jul 2013 #84

I would like to know why you changed your mind also. bvar22 Jul 2013 #99

Oh c'mon. She's not going to waste her time telling us why when we already know the answer dflprincess Jul 2013 #102

Come now, Prosense, we are all waiting to hear your reasoning. Th1onein Jul 2013 #96

You mean her posting a link LondonReign2 Jul 2013 #129

It's shameful if that's the reason she's now supporting wholesale spying. Th1onein Jul 2013 #151

So, your point then, is to focus the date, without regard for this subject? MrMickeysMom Jul 2013 #25

Actually, ProSense Jul 2013 #49

So, your "point" was to let the poster know this? MrMickeysMom Jul 2013 #103

We will be waiting for his and other Dems' filibusters BumRushDaShow Jul 2013 #23

Smearing Sen. Wyden now, are you?? Wyden has NEVER cowered in a corner sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #26

What that sound? East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #72

How do you put a hold on a secret interpretation of a law? merrily Jul 2013 #110

Rec for Wyden and my Senator Udall. Autumn Jul 2013 #4

And now Senator Udall's brother is missing. factsarenotfair Jul 2013 #5

I know, I heard about it. Autumn Jul 2013 #8

I hadn't heard about that. I hope he is found. sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #16

K&R, and thanks to the courage of Snowden, woo me with science Jul 2013 #7

Oh, that Wyden LondonReign2 Jul 2013 #10

Fuck the patroit act. As a Senator, Wyden can declassify any intel on the spot. Mr. David Jul 2013 #12

Really? Then Wyden and all those other Democrats are liars? sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #17

"Of course he could just do what Snowden did and decide to break the law." ProSense Jul 2013 #20

Yes, he knew he was breaking the law and what the consequences would be which is what makes sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #29

Not ProSense Jul 2013 #34

Yawn! They said all of that about Ellsberg (is he still a hero, or did I mess his demotion to sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #38

Ellsberg didn't flee to Hong Kong. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #41

Different country back then. We were still a democracy. sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #52

Different situation is more like it, and ProSense Jul 2013 #56

He was prosecuted but back then there were still elected officials and a free press, plus a SC sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #78

Ellsberg was prosecuted. But he was not tortured, was he? Th1onein Jul 2013 #97

Ellsberg thinks Manning and Snowden are exactly like Ellsberg. merrily Jul 2013 #121

So what? merrily Jul 2013 #116

He doesn't sound at all like he was clueless about the consequences. merrily Jul 2013 #115

They always say laws were meant to be broken, and boy are they ever so broken nolabels Jul 2013 #32

How can anyone expose the secret law breaking by our own government, without breaking the law RC Jul 2013 #50

Exactly -- Joseph Heller couldn't have imagined a more diabolical arrangement! n/t markpkessinger Jul 2013 #85

Wow, that's quite a revelation. I would love to know more. A Senator rhett o rick Jul 2013 #37

The Constitution is the source. merrily Jul 2013 #117

No he can't. former9thward Jul 2013 #46

Members of the Senate Intel Committee have to sign an agreement that they won't reveal merrily Jul 2013 #114

Can POTUS veto it? Myrina Jul 2013 #18

This article is from the past. BlueCheese Jul 2013 #35

I didn't realize it was that old. East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #43

Definitely still relevant. BlueCheese Jul 2013 #45

Can he veto his own secret interpretation of a law? merrily Jul 2013 #118

K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #22

But Wyden's girl friend is a pole-dancer. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #28

I think we have a shadow military government that tells presidents what they want them to know. Zen Democrat Jul 2013 #30

I think there may be something to that. We changed presidents but the intelligence agencies stayed rhett o rick Jul 2013 #40

Not only that, but the heads of those agencies dixiegrrrrl Jul 2013 #64

We should be figuring out that the President may be a figurehead. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #155

Obama seems to love him re-appointing Bushies anyway. merrily Jul 2013 #124

I don't think it necessarily happened with Eisenhower but he saw it coming. dflprincess Jul 2013 #101

This has crossed my mind. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #107

This is a part of a reply to a post I made timdog44 Jul 2013 #108

Great post, Tim! Enthusiast Jul 2013 #109

Trained at West Point, military all his life, general for years, President and CIC for 8 years, merrily Jul 2013 #119

Please expand on your point. nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #135

The credit that Eisenhower gets for that warning has always merrily Jul 2013 #136

I imagine there is good reason for that. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #139

.... merrily Jul 2013 #141

He could have inspired or launched a massive investigation/expose Enthusiast Jul 2013 #146

I don't see how his launching an investigation would merrily Jul 2013 #147

So we've been on double secret probation since 2011? leeroysphitz Jul 2013 #31

More like since 1914, if not before. merrily Jul 2013 #149

As president Johnson said, nineteen50 Jul 2013 #33

Yeah he was only kidding about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #42

and Clapper was only kidding about government not nineteen50 Jul 2013 #47

No, no that was completely a misunderstanding as he told Ms. Mitchell and she accepted it. rhett o rick Jul 2013 #53

That is what the prison boss told nineteen50 Jul 2013 #63

Wyden and Udall have consistently questioned the Patriot Act provisions since 2011 Maedhros Jul 2013 #48

At one point threads like this on du... NCTraveler Jul 2013 #51

The whole country is on Double Secret Probation n2doc Jul 2013 #58

That was my first thought! deutsey Jul 2013 #62

So, when did Wyden become a Rand Paul supporter? Fuddnik Jul 2013 #65

Thank you Senator Wyden felix_numinous Jul 2013 #67

filibuster mtasselin Jul 2013 #68

A law that is classified is no law at all, at least as far as I'm concerned Jack Rabbit Jul 2013 #69

the Roman plebes had to threaten to found their own city to get law public MisterP Jul 2013 #75

the OP says it is Obama's secret interpretation of the law, not the law itself, that is the issue. merrily Jul 2013 #127

Repeal the fucking thing then. bunnies Jul 2013 #70

Wyden did not vote to extend it in 2006 but Senator Obama sure did. Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #73

And it was the wrong thing to do. bunnies Jul 2013 #74

And it was extended by President Obama in 2011 when the majority bullwinkle428 Jul 2013 #122

They don't want to repeal it. ProSense Jul 2013 #79

Thanks Pro. bunnies Jul 2013 #82

Yeah, that's gonna change everything and the secret surveillance East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #89

You are correct, given that the Executive Branch claims it can have secret interpretations of laws, merrily Jul 2013 #126

The more shame on them. It should be repealed. merrily Jul 2013 #125

Agree on the contents, but you can't repeal a secret interpretation by the Exec. Branch. merrily Jul 2013 #123

I think we probably agree that... bunnies Jul 2013 #128

People are starting to talk about economic boycott. merrily Jul 2013 #132

I think you might have more faith in the American people than I do. bunnies Jul 2013 #133

Sorry about that! There's one in Boston, but I don't know if you want to spend most of merrily Jul 2013 #134

Id bet *most* people still dont know. bunnies Jul 2013 #137

64% of 40 something percent of the Country is not a majority of Americans, though. merrily Jul 2013 #138

True enough. bunnies Jul 2013 #140

"Maybe I projected unreal expectations onto the man." merrily Jul 2013 #144

all hail warrprayer Jul 2013 #80

k and r nashville_brook Jul 2013 #86

Ultimately we have a 4th Amendment. They can't endrun it very easily. Gregorian Jul 2013 #88

"They can't endrun it very easily." Yes We Can! kenny blankenship Jul 2013 #100

Secret Laws, Secret Agencies, Secret Edicts - Where Is The Transparency We Voted For, I Demand Answers cantbeserious Jul 2013 #93

You can go to whitehous.gov and learn everything Obama wants you to know. merrily Jul 2013 #130

What is going on? Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #94

I can't say. It's a secret. merrily Jul 2013 #131

k & r! nt wildbilln864 Jul 2013 #95

No matter how paranoid or conspiracy-minded you are... alterfurz Jul 2013 #104

Yeah, no. I've seen some loony theories on message boards. merrily Jul 2013 #120

Ron Wyden worked his way through college as a pole dancer. QC Jul 2013 #106

LOL :) nt Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #157

Old News! Coyotl Jul 2013 #142

It is amazing to see what some posters DO NOT know. Coyotl Jul 2013 #143

Waaaaaaaa East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #145

The front page is generated automatically by statistics. Coyotl Jul 2013 #148

No it isn't. East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #150

Yes it is. Coyotl Jul 2013 #152

No it isn't. East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #153

Oh dear. Safetykitten Jul 2013 #154

Everybody is a terr'ist, right? blkmusclmachine Jul 2013 #156