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Deny and Shred

(1,061 posts)

118. Here's some conjecture

Reply to GreenStormCloud (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 03:46 PM

Jul 2013

I believe that GZ left his car to find TM. On his call, 8 seconds go by from when he closes his car door at 2:17 to the operator telling him, "We don't need you to do that." A further minute and a half of phone call go by, during which he is going anywhere but back to his truck.

When he and the operator eventually agree that he should meet the actual police at his truck, he then asks to be called instead.

My conclusion is he lost Trayvon, and was combing the area looking for him, looking in hiding spots.

The conjecture: he found Trayvon, and told him something like don't move, the police are on he way. Trayvon tried to run away and Zimmerman tried to detain him. They have an altercation, and Trayvon wins it. He is on top, and GZ pulls the gun. The pure conjecture on my part is Trayvon recognizes the gun and does his best to control the gun hand. What if he was trying to wrestle the gun out of his hands for a while, and screaming for help the whole time. Winning the 'fight' but scared as hell that he's fighting an unknown adult stalker with a gun who will shoot him?

They squirm around for a while, during which GZ's head is dragged across the pavement while Trayvon's weight is on him, Trayvon hits him a few times in the process, but George eventually controls, and uses, the firearm.

Crazy?

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ZIMMERMAN TRIAL: Day 7, Tuesday, July 2, 2013 [View all] GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 OP

Sereno recommended manslaughter charges for Zimmerman. RDANGELO Jul 2013 #1

I wouldn't think it would be, but I'm not a lawyer. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #3

Lesser included charge. And they can argue both consistently. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #5

Yes, the jury will get to choose for the lesser included charge, and Murder 2 chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #12

Pretty much so. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #39

True. But that is not the question that post#1 asks. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #44

it should raise doubt for the jury about self-defense, if Serino made such a recommendation. Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #57

I agree, wrongful homicide ..or whatever the legal term is.. fits. NM_Birder Jul 2013 #82

"Slippery Slope" (DU Poster) Just Posted This Info ChiciB1 Jul 2013 #45

Interesting. Thanks. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #54

yes...it is in the official police report eom noiretextatique Jul 2013 #47

Let's get them out of the way early: "So now he's guilty already?" "I'll wait to hear all the WinkyDink Jul 2013 #2

+1 Roland99 Jul 2013 #4

Lol awesome nt naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #72

State objects to the defendant's questioning of Serino as to if he thought Zimmerman was truthful Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #6

Judge rules in prosecution's favor, asks the jury to disregard the question. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #8

I'm not a big Serino fan DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2013 #9

I think Serino asked the right questions KurtNYC Jul 2013 #10

But he also said he found Zimmy to be truthful DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2013 #11

Thx for this, that's material to his attitude uponit7771 Jul 2013 #13

Serino's questions and actions show that he did not believe parts of Zim's story KurtNYC Jul 2013 #15

It is a highly improper question Evergreen Emerald Jul 2013 #14

Plus he said he believed Zimmy couldn't possibly have profiled Martin DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2013 #16

The judge's timid-sounding voice annoys me. (I'm easily annoyed.) WinkyDink Jul 2013 #7

for reference, transcript of tape they are playing bits of, Serino interrogation KurtNYC Jul 2013 #17

Prosecution is on fire now. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2013 #18

You just knew yesterday when the defense asked Serino if chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #19

Zimmy is getting ripped to shreds this morning. Atman Jul 2013 #20

good.. I missed all of that and am glad to hear it. Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #58

Thank you. Read last night there were only 3 streets and this is even worse. I wondered also about uppityperson Jul 2013 #129

Bernie's doing a pretty good job on re-direct of Serino. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #21

The defense "awoke a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve." DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2013 #23

This one goes out to Mark O'Mara. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #22

Bernie's on fire today riverwalker Jul 2013 #24

I hope he jumps on this slim-jim crap! FarPoint Jul 2013 #27

I KNOW! Something found DAYS later?! WinkyDink Jul 2013 #29

Probably reading his reviews DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2013 #30

Okay, O'Mara is basically now totally conceding and justifying Zimmerman was profiling. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #25

Oh good, defense points out that a black man was sentenced to 5 years chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #26

"Legally speaking, no."---"Was there anything wrong with Z's following TM?" CRIME isn't the POINT. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #28

Not sure what O'Mara's point is here, except to confuse the jury. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #31

If you look at the totality of Zimmerman's actions, it is Martin that should be concerned about his chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #32

Not just plausible, but logical. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #33

Where are the objections to these questions based on Z's IMPEACHABLE WORDS? This witness needs WinkyDink Jul 2013 #34

OMG. The Defense just got the witness to agree that Z was "trying to be accurate." WTH?! Z's WHOLE WinkyDink Jul 2013 #35

And he got Serino to agree that the evidence shows that Martin was leaning chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #36

And on re-re-direct just now, the "TM on top" scenario has been agreed to! The D.A. is WEAK. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #37

I wonder why the DA that did the opening avebury Jul 2013 #38

doesn't matter which one was on top TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #135

The witness is suppose to answer questions pintobean Jul 2013 #40

I agree, and mentioned the DA. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #42

Mark Osterman on now riverwalker Jul 2013 #41

it's all hearsay riverwalker Jul 2013 #49

"He told you, when he got Trayvon Martin's hands off his mouth,...." NO EVIDENCE TM did this! WinkyDink Jul 2013 #43

It's like the prosecution doesn't care...it's even partly helping the defense Roland99 Jul 2013 #46

Fascinating performance by a Z partisan....... korak Jul 2013 #53

the book author/best friend of Zimmerman? Roland99 Jul 2013 #55

Serinos interrogation is powerful, the mouth smothering peice is something the defense hasn't uponit7771 Jul 2013 #50

Ostermans story riverwalker Jul 2013 #48

+1,The tip of Z's nose was bleeding also, not the nostrils there's no sense that there was no blood uponit7771 Jul 2013 #51

Not true, premium Jul 2013 #56

I see blood on the tip of Z's NOSE, I don't nkow what you're looking at uponit7771 Jul 2013 #70

That's not my fault that you can't see what's obviously there. nt. premium Jul 2013 #83

She just said there was blood coming out of his nose. nt. premium Jul 2013 #94

Osterman's credibility....he writes a book about his best friends most life altering event Ninga Jul 2013 #52

Prosecution playing Sean Hannity interview w/Zim Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #59

Great, now we have to listen to Sean Hannity's smarmy little voice. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #60

This interview is really ticking me off. avebury Jul 2013 #65

Z tells Hannity riverwalker Jul 2013 #61

"I didn't think I hit him" vs. "He cried out, 'You got me!'" Which one, GEORGE? WinkyDink Jul 2013 #62

So, the death of Trayvon Martin was "God's plan". All-righty, then, Z! You lying PoS. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #63

"It was all God's plan" riverwalker Jul 2013 #64

I heard one pundit describe Prosecutor John Guy as reminiscent of a "young Kevin Costner" Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #66

The voice IS, even to the inflections! Ha! One role is cast.... WinkyDink Jul 2013 #68

I just hope he doesn't bring in his dad and ask him to play catch. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #85

Dr. Rao riverwalker Jul 2013 #67

Medical examiner testified that Zimmerman's injuries were "insignificant and not life threatening" Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #69

Zimmerman was "not incapacited in any way" post-shooting. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #71

ONE hit, not "dozens." WinkyDink Jul 2013 #73

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #76

Injuries not consistent with head being slammed repeatedly into concrete. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #81

+1, establishing what the FP said uponit7771 Jul 2013 #75

"Insignificant injuries" riverwalker Jul 2013 #74

Yeap, because they were in the same area of the head..that's pretty good uponit7771 Jul 2013 #77

A dictionary definition is hearsay - are avebury Jul 2013 #78

I think the prosecution willingly let that in. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #84

i like the way you think Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #89

sidebar now riverwalker Jul 2013 #79

not consistant with "slammed" riverwalker Jul 2013 #80

Do you know if he had a head xray or mri or anything? Union Scribe Jul 2013 #88

+1, I played football for 6 years...if the head was hit in the wrong place you're out... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #90

no Xray, no CT scan, no MRI riverwalker Jul 2013 #92

If they were 'wrestling' near/on the 'cement' as the lady last week put it, Myrina Jul 2013 #91

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #93

Rao's direct testimony was short and sweet. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #86

Desperate measure by the defense, she's the ME...we expect here to be related to the state uponit7771 Jul 2013 #87

Rao is coming off as a very strong witness, to me. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #95

Just Checked In Here... ChiciB1 Jul 2013 #98

"Why does the defense think his injuries were much more severe today?" Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #99

I See It That Way Myself... ChiciB1 Jul 2013 #108

Sure, a prosecutor could "throw" a case... Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #109

this is getting ridiculous riverwalker Jul 2013 #96

why is the judge letting the defense go on with these stupid questions uponit7771 Jul 2013 #102

I don't think the prosecution minds. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #104

O'Mara tried to get her to say riverwalker Jul 2013 #97

It would be helpful if they could show injuries that were known to be caused KurtNYC Jul 2013 #101

But they've seen Bruce Willis movies, so they know it's not that bad! n/t Scootaloo Jul 2013 #106

Apparently Mark O'Mara never had a buzz cut in his life. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #103

Why is she testifying from photos? Ha! She just asked the same thing! Feh! He got"It's possible"s. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #100

The medical examiner is giving O'Mara heartburn! madaboutharry Jul 2013 #105

He got her to admit may more impacts possible ksoze Jul 2013 #107

I stepped away so can someone update me on what avebury Jul 2013 #110

they want to enter his college transcripts riverwalker Jul 2013 #112

How did the judge rule? avebury Jul 2013 #119

State is arguing to enter into evidence riverwalker Jul 2013 #111

No knowledge of SYG? Bullshit!! GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #136

this is what they are arguing riverwalker Jul 2013 #113

O'Mara: they have to show he was in the class n/t riverwalker Jul 2013 #115

Not really. Apparently Z denied (to Hannity) even HEARING of SYG. Please. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #122

The defense is objecting to the next witness because it will show Zimmerman lied.... Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #114

Prosecution: He had the text book riverwalker Jul 2013 #116

The evidence should be allowed to be avebury Jul 2013 #121

Fox commentator: "Can of Arizona ice tea = deadly weapon." anneboleyn Jul 2013 #117

Fox News, go home, you're drunk. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #123

Here's some conjecture Deny and Shred Jul 2013 #118

Not at all crazy. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #120

Makes eminent sense to me. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #125

walking suspiciously riverwalker Jul 2013 #124

walking suspiciously = walking while black Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #127

"he was looking at houses" riverwalker Jul 2013 #130

If there are class attendance records, or even proof that Z was there on Day 1 when the syllabus was WinkyDink Jul 2013 #126

sounds like the Professor is there riverwalker Jul 2013 #128

they will decide in the morning riverwalker Jul 2013 #131

They're baaaaack. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #132

Kristen Benson, finger print expert. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #133

Slightly off-topic, but I seem to recall seeing a live captioned stream version of the trial... Mr. David Jul 2013 #134