General Discussion

felix_numinous

(5,198 posts)

164. In a respectful relationship you tell the truth

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 10:49 PM

Jul 2013

and you remain authentic. You don't ignore elephants in the room and enable them to ruin your trust and your relationship. If so your relationship is based on lies and denial.

When people are criticized for discussing the hard issues that originated long before this administration, and how these issues have not been curtailed but enabled to continue-- it is like being asked not to talk about the elephant in the room. It is dysfunctional not to speak authentically, to only stick to 'soft' issues that will smooth over the situation.

The surveillance issue is being made into a personality contest, but if it is that then it has to be authentic. We the American people voted for someone to halt the Policies of Bush, and we have seen the opposite done. Then we were dismissed as professional left what ever that meant. So this relationship has not been honest.

I can understand if the powers that be are so powerful that representatives are being psi oped into compliance or blackmailed-- I actually suspect this. But to EXPECT people not to discuss the creeping police state is to enable further social unrest to happen!! Discussion helps people plan a sane response, while repression enables explosive human behavior.

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Obama And The Crumbling Of A Liberal Fantasy Hero [View all] Purveyor Jul 2013 OP

He tried to close gitmo but are illustrious congress prevented it. As for the Europeans, people in still_one Jul 2013 #1

No, he tried to secure funding to open a new super max on US soil to relocate Gitmo TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #44

He failed to close Gitmo. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #178

He didn't want to close Gitmo. Our bipartisan Congress saved his face. merrily Jul 2013 #244

Most of the prisoners cleared for release are Yemeni. merrily Jul 2013 #243

Woo hoo! It's the 'Obama gets a pass because he's black' angle! CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #2

The ability to tell nineteen50 Jul 2013 #28

That's deep, man. Really Number23 Jul 2013 #106

And their arrogant first cousins, chervilant Jul 2013 #159

Yes, but the news in the article is . . . caseymoz Jul 2013 #57

Senator Obama worked on antinuclear programs, but you probably don't care Kolesar Jul 2013 #205

Harder than others who didn't receive the Nobel Prize? caseymoz Jul 2013 #210

Well Done, Sir. bvar22 Jul 2013 #223

Obama's worst nightmare was winning the Nobel Peace Prize LiberalLovinLug Jul 2013 #227

Meanwhile, IF he was a white Republican he'd be on Mt.Rushmore by now. JaneyVee Jul 2013 #145

Yep, Bin Laden is dead, all right. merrily Jul 2013 #246

Race does not belong in that sentence. merrily Jul 2013 #245

"More important would be the broken promise to close the Guant�namo detension centre.." Cha Jul 2013 #3

You should see the comments on the article. CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #15

Just because you vote for him it nineteen50 Jul 2013 #49

Sure, the whole world just imagined that... but he just promised to do it again, or are we imagining usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #21

The one world global power elite nineteen50 Jul 2013 #33

Well, he never tried to close the Gitmo prison Maedhros Jul 2013 #32

Stupid Propaganda crap you're regurgitating. Cha Jul 2013 #46

It's well documented. Maedhros Jul 2013 #84

Dude! Phlem Jul 2013 #236

I'd never considered the DLC/Corporate Democrats' cost to our country in terms of foreign allies. Marr Jul 2013 #4

it's been badcop/worsecop for quite awhile, now elehhhhna Jul 2013 #128

Kind of sounds like you HappyMe Jul 2013 #5

Odd you would say that considering your tagline. LOL eom Purveyor Jul 2013 #6

Okay then. HappyMe Jul 2013 #8

MLK expressed that sentiment. I'm sure he knew all about the silence of his 'friends' sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #169

Kind of sounds like your nineteen50 Jul 2013 #36

I'm not all that patriotic. HappyMe Jul 2013 #113

You are a real patriot if you follow your post. Thank you. nineteen50 Jul 2013 #118

He was a corporate Trojan Horse, woo me with science Jul 2013 #7

Someone didn't like what you had to say: AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #13

Thank you MissDeeds Jul 2013 #25

Thank you for serving, woo me with science Jul 2013 #100

Corporate Trojan horse is exactly right. limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #18

Obama sold quite a bit of that, too. merrily Jul 2013 #237

It's pretty sad that to carry out change in America these days you have to commit a major felony. leveymg Jul 2013 #47

One person's major felony is another person's whistleblowing. merrily Jul 2013 #238

I used to dislike such moral relativism, and reject the equivalency of all causes, but there has leveymg Jul 2013 #239

At one point, Osama said that he had decided to do something to hurt America merrily Jul 2013 #240

Osama or Poppy. I don't accept that choice. leveymg Jul 2013 #241

? No one asked you to choose between Osama and Poppy. merrily Jul 2013 #242

Chicago School Octafish Jul 2013 #60

+1 woo me with science Jul 2013 #110

Truer words were never spoken. forestpath Jul 2013 #89

Yep-- and he's provided the best proof yet for the fact that this is a liberal country. Marr Jul 2013 #131

Thank you. It amazes me that the argument woo me with science Jul 2013 #134

Maybe for Senator, but never for President. HughBeaumont Jul 2013 #166

Good point leftstreet Jul 2013 #142

Can you IMAGINE if he had run on: bvar22 Jul 2013 #226

Yes, "Thank you, Edward Snowden" Agony Jul 2013 #146

A corporate Trojan Horse. The sooner the 99% realize that, the sooner we can fight for our LIVES. chimpymustgo Jul 2013 #207

It is a charade Puzzledtraveller Jul 2013 #212

Three and a half more years alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #9

Yeah, the poor little victims will have Cha Jul 2013 #16

Yeah. Like maybe by then the Bush era tax cuts will have been allowed to expire. Octafish Jul 2013 #62

Greenwalds motto... sheshe2 Jul 2013 #88

Yeah, she.. everyone is suspect except Greenwald, Snowden, Assange, Cha Jul 2013 #154

I'm wondering if G's dad advised his son to after power with LIES, she? Cha Jul 2013 #162

Maybe there's hope for impeachment! CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #37

Get real zeemike Jul 2013 #109

Geez, back to the "Obama is a RW pawn/Manchurian Candidate" theory? CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #119

No it is triangulation. zeemike Jul 2013 #125

Are you laughing at children killed by drones? HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #75

Oh, the melodrama! alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #111

No, it's not melodrama, it's politics. sibelian Jul 2013 #157

apparantly you *do* think it funny demwing Jul 2013 #203

I don't think that's very helpful. sibelian Jul 2013 #85

The demands for a primary failed. JoePhilly Jul 2013 #91

Please Universe - Spare Us From The Fate Of A Hillary Presidency cantbeserious Jul 2013 #138

SEXIST! sibelian Jul 2013 #156

What I love most about all of this, is the total exposure of what we only suspected before. sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #229

Forward! alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #230

K&R quinnox Jul 2013 #10

There's no doubt that it's a class war and Obama is a Rahmulan. byeya Jul 2013 #11

Thus the Trojan Horse conotation lark Jul 2013 #76

The delivery of those ponies we ordered back truedelphi Jul 2013 #12

The fact that the house of cards is falling after this long is nothing short of a miracle Hydra Jul 2013 #14

somebody didn't get their pony snooper2 Jul 2013 #17

Original. senseandsensibility Jul 2013 #19

Sometimes you got to stick with the original snooper2 Jul 2013 #23

Most of the serious opponents of the less savory aspects of the Obama administration sibelian Jul 2013 #38

No more and no less than prefacing an editorial with "cult" and fantasy" achieves much either... LanternWaste Jul 2013 #80

I think there's more to Obama support than cultism, yes. sibelian Jul 2013 #105

Ya got that right! This is officially an Obama opposition research site now. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #39

The party needs to move to the left. sibelian Jul 2013 #70

"DU is for all stripes" CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #93

Weren't we told by Obama after the 2010 election, "I get it"? AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #140

I suspect he found he genuinely couldn't do as much as he wanted... sibelian Jul 2013 #155

Only 3.5 years of poutrage remain!! JoePhilly Jul 2013 #20

I've decided DevonRex Jul 2013 #31

What...you don't like the conspiracy theories which imply the US government killed Michael Hastings? Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #65

If you can't beat 'em join 'em. Obama bombed the MOON!!!!! OMG!!! DevonRex Jul 2013 #81

Pretty much ... JoePhilly Jul 2013 #87

I'm sick of hearing the lie about Obama not keeping his promise on Guantanamo. Zen Democrat Jul 2013 #22

He just wanted to move it, not close it. RC Jul 2013 #86

What about Red Tie Guy? His enthusiasm is truly contagious... limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #24

i dont judge people for being diehard fans of obama BOG PERSON Jul 2013 #136

I usually do but there are so many that it doesn't tell me much. limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #141

blame it on capital's deliberate fostering of fan culture / brand loyalty BOG PERSON Jul 2013 #149

ACLU Comment on Appointment of Envoy to Close Guant�namo ProSense Jul 2013 #26

Those of us who voted for a real human being instead of a super hero geek tragedy Jul 2013 #27

I don't think that means very much, does it? sibelian Jul 2013 #40

No single person--even the President--can move things in the right direction geek tragedy Jul 2013 #45

So you lay responsibility at the feet of the entire political capital. sibelian Jul 2013 #63

For one, there is no single direction, because there is no single policy or issue. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #66

Presumably you feel that some issues aren't worth tackling, then? sibelian Jul 2013 #71

All of them are worth tackling. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #74

OK, thanks for clarifying. nt. sibelian Jul 2013 #79

The record shows aggressive advocacy of a corporate agenda woo me with science Jul 2013 #96

This ^^^^^^^^ Phlem Jul 2013 #122

the consistent pattern suggests this is a matter of policy rather than pragmatics nashville_brook Jul 2013 #130

+1 I'd say more than suggests. woo me with science Jul 2013 #143

+1 leftstreet Jul 2013 #144

But "the republcians would have twisted his elbow if he had not done all that." n/t truedelphi Jul 2013 #153

Please post this as its own OP. The body of evidence is unrefutable. chimpymustgo Jul 2013 #209

Rec and bookmarking AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #216

Too bad that Medicaid Expansion has been made optional. Jamastiene Jul 2013 #208

Supporting Obama makes perfect sense... Orsino Jul 2013 #132

+1 HiPointDem Jul 2013 #186

Off topic. But you'll have to revise your opinion on Ned Starks effect once... Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #198

Fire and Ice have already been joined, as we shall learn. nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #200

You deserve the "geek" tag in your name... Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #202

Strikes me as almost gossipy, if we're talking about geek tragedy Jul 2013 #220

This ^^^^^ treestar Jul 2013 #52

"somewhat less crestfallen" at what -- do you admit disappointment in NSA spying? nashville_brook Jul 2013 #129

Every President is going to do everything the courts geek tragedy Jul 2013 #184

This means noting coming from those who hated him from the start. MjolnirTime Jul 2013 #29

OK, how about me? sibelian Jul 2013 #42

I was one of his biggest supporters here and yet you falsely accuse cali Jul 2013 #50

You also post about specific policies Recursion Jul 2013 #55

Are you the OP? nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #56

the post in question is directed generically. nashville_brook Jul 2013 #126

must have hit a nerve. MjolnirTime Jul 2013 #233

nope. dishonest comments from the likes of you cali Jul 2013 #234

Bullshit. You act like nobody saw any of your posts for the last 5 years. MjolnirTime Jul 2013 #232

that's actually quite a revealing remark -- shows that you believe criticism=hate nashville_brook Jul 2013 #124

Europe hated him from the start? Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #199

Wishful thinking won't make it so. ucrdem Jul 2013 #30

5th Rec, thanks for the link, ucrdem sheshe2 Jul 2013 #115

Well, if Obama is a liberal fantasy hero.. baronjake Jul 2013 #34

Anyone out of power who doesn't have to get results in the real world Recursion Jul 2013 #53

never had any illusion that he was a liberal to say nothing of a liberal hero - I just thought he Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #35

Loads of I got your back Obama B's here nineteen50 Jul 2013 #41

I suspect policy is now of secondary importance to them. sibelian Jul 2013 #48

If a political party is headed down the wrong path nineteen50 Jul 2013 #54

I have Obama's back. SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2013 #51

The right is dropping sharia crap on women what has nineteen50 Jul 2013 #59

If you have to ask... OilemFirchen Jul 2013 #94

2 women justices for starters SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2013 #97

So the litmus was female I am nineteen50 Jul 2013 #99

What women have gained nineteen50 Jul 2013 #67

when govt becomes literally invasive and disruptive SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2013 #108

When nineteen50 Jul 2013 #117

I just see a lot of people acting like Snowden and not thinking SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2013 #135

Who is not thinking Snowde or Clapper? nineteen50 Jul 2013 #147

This thread is about Obama as liberal fantasy hero SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2013 #148

I don't think it has anything to do with DU the nineteen50 Jul 2013 #151

I just listed several huge differences. And my concerns are those of this president SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2013 #167

What is the number one expenditure nineteen50 Jul 2013 #175

Those are the big issues, but there are equally important personal and economic issues. SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2013 #180

If America awakens nineteen50 Jul 2013 #206

Obama is not a liberal Doctor_J Jul 2013 #168

I don't think the left wing criticising Obama is going to mean the Democrats will lose sibelian Jul 2013 #69

this is what the thick-headed apologists can't seem to grasp Doctor_J Jul 2013 #172

Yes. They consider themselves strategists... sibelian Jul 2013 #183

Because your characterization of "continued the path of your hated enemy" geek tragedy Jul 2013 #58

Your opinion nineteen50 Jul 2013 #61

Bush's program for ending tax cuts for millionaires, drawing down our military presence in Iraq, geek tragedy Jul 2013 #64

Tell me where you want me to send you a response nineteen50 Jul 2013 #82

White House Delaying Key Obamacare Provision For A Year nineteen50 Jul 2013 #92

I'm kind of shocked that this is in the Financial Times. Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #43

Conservative UK paper bashes Obama, what's the world coming to? ucrdem Jul 2013 #77

Maybe that's all it is. Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #83

This is the island serving up Assange and Greenwald. ucrdem Jul 2013 #90

Easy to miss that since our conservatives aren't as clever at hiding it. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #218

you never loved him n/t warrprayer Jul 2013 #68

I certainly didn't. I thought he was a damn good bet. sibelian Jul 2013 #73

I'll forgo a step-by-step rebuttal IrishAyes Jul 2013 #72

Good plan. CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #98

The best President we've ever had? that's upaloopa Jul 2013 #107

The veneer has all worn off and what the veneer had covered has been lain indepat Jul 2013 #78

I get that he had to do the whole sexy graphics thing. sibelian Jul 2013 #95

Liberals can't have a hero because liberals don't get elected... Drunken Irishman Jul 2013 #101

Bingo! Cleita Jul 2013 #102

Your entire post rests on the premise that those criticising Obama don't support him. sibelian Jul 2013 #114

How many people come at the argument from your perspective? Drunken Irishman Jul 2013 #123

The problem is that there is too much Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #137

Why don't you ask them which party they plan on voting for at the next election? nt sibelian Jul 2013 #139

Thank you Drunken Irishman nevergiveup Jul 2013 #116

+1000! sheshe2 Jul 2013 #127

Not this nonsense again. woo me with science Jul 2013 #133

You'll notice that the post is highly repetitive sibelian Jul 2013 #152

So, who's the liberal hero leading the UK today? Drunken Irishman Jul 2013 #185

Oh, there's plenty of pragmatism in the UK. sibelian Jul 2013 #189

So, what's your point? Drunken Irishman Jul 2013 #196

God ... GeorgeGist Jul 2013 #224

What? Drunken Irishman Jul 2013 #182

Obama got elected campaigning as a neo-FDR leftstreet Jul 2013 #158

I don't think that point's lost on him. sibelian Jul 2013 #161

What terms? Drunken Irishman Jul 2013 #188

Your post further upthread speaks for itself. sibelian Jul 2013 #190

Just spit it out... Drunken Irishman Jul 2013 #195

I wonder if you paid attention at all in 2008... Drunken Irishman Jul 2013 #187

Awesome post ! treestar Jul 2013 #163

Nailed it. sagat Jul 2013 #194

In this excerpt alone... OilemFirchen Jul 2013 #103

Oh Gawd.... LuvLoogie Jul 2013 #104

lol This article is really quite sympathetic to the President. Not that the rec crew will notice Number23 Jul 2013 #112

Why would anyone suspect a self-described centrist politician of being a liberal? Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2013 #120

Self-described Republican, actually. But he waited a prudent interval before outing himself kenny blankenship Jul 2013 #165

Totally hyperbolic hype from the TeaLeft. Nonsense. RBInMaine Jul 2013 #201

We did A LOT better than bush in '08, we can do A LOT better than Obama in '16. sadbear Jul 2013 #121

You can't blame Obama. He never had the votes.� Stinky The Clown Jul 2013 #150

�Obama talks like the president of the American Civil Liberties Union but he acts like Dick Cheney.� Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #160

Liberal talk, rightwing action kenny blankenship Jul 2013 #179

In a respectful relationship you tell the truth felix_numinous Jul 2013 #164

Marvelous post. woo me with science Jul 2013 #174

I appreciate your post. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #215

it's strange that an article in a European paper about disappointment in Doctor_J Jul 2013 #170

We can't be allowed near the steering wheel. sibelian Jul 2013 #171

I can't wait until we find out why WE'RE responsible for Europe's Doctor_J Jul 2013 #173

Europe's a giant hot-bed of creepy Rand Paul supporters... sibelian Jul 2013 #177

No, that's what GD has become. Skidmore Jul 2013 #197

Well that's a bit of a strange hypothesis, really sibelian Jul 2013 #235

Here's the sadder fact. roamer65 Jul 2013 #176

No. LWolf Jul 2013 #213

I guess they never watched any James Bond Agent 007 movies! Amonester Jul 2013 #181

Bingo. Great article LittleBlue Jul 2013 #191

Whatever... Lady Freedom Returns Jul 2013 #192

Not Fair sam_25tx Jul 2013 #193

Europe was "the headquarters of global cult of Obama"? WTF? In which reality? Sure he was liked idwiyo Jul 2013 #204

Some of the responses to this thread indicate that LWolf Jul 2013 #211

Those posts are always good for a {{{chuckle}}} after all the positive posting I put up over Purveyor Jul 2013 #214

Yep. nt LWolf Jul 2013 #221

I find it interesting...the pursuit of destroying Obama while in other news Sheepshank Jul 2013 #217

Gitmo is a tiny part of how he's failed to follow through. RILib Jul 2013 #219

K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #222

''....but he acts like Dick Cheney.'' DeSwiss Jul 2013 #225

Obama was never a "liberal" - that was the fantasy. Vinnie From Indy Jul 2013 #228

�Obama talks like the president of the ACLU but he acts like Dick Cheney,� sadly true with some yurbud Jul 2013 #231