General Discussion

mindwalker_i

(4,407 posts)

203. I disagree specifically because he was informing us of the govt's illegal actions

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 10:57 AM

Jul 2013

They are illegal because they violate the 4th ammendment. The secret laws have gone too far, and in a democracy it's kind of our duty to fight against those, so I am grateful to Snowden for taking the risks he took to expose them - or confirm them. Furthermore, as this government has broken further laws about torture, specifically with reference to Gitmo and especially Manning, Snowden is smart to get the hell out of here. I don't begrudge him anything for not wanting to be tortured.

So my analogy of a woman getting beat up works in that she would be making parts of her private life less private, which is generally a bad thing, but in that case is very well justified to stop a bigger crime - getting beat up. That's what the term whistleblower means.

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What kind of coward is Edward Snowden? [View all] backscatter712 Jul 2013 OP

Plus 1000! peacebird Jul 2013 #1

THANK YOU!!! BehindTheCurtain76 Jul 2013 #255

DURec leftstreet Jul 2013 #2

Perfect n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #3

Very, very nice. Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #257

+1 Go Vols Jul 2013 #280

Snowden turned 30 years old two Fridays ago. He is a FELONIOUS CRIMINAL running to CHINA/RUSSIA Tx4obama Jul 2013 #4

I too am 30 years old Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #7

Um. Your generation should be trying to grab the reigns now from dog catcher to school board to Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #17

No Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #24

How do you intend to grab those reigns if you don't actually do the work to grab those reigns. Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #39

Productivity is up, wages are down Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #45

You are right, it is the young who will change things, it always is. And from what I see, sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #97

Grreat strategy. How does any of that facilitate you grabbing the reigns? Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #136

reins HiPointDem Jul 2013 #167

Indeed. Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #175

'nuf said. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #177

The 'Reigns of terror'. You're missing the point entirely. eom Blanks Jul 2013 #258

I think the point was - your best bet is to start building your own infrastructure. calimary Jul 2013 #252

Well, you need to get off the computer, do a little hard work, move up the ladder, MADem Jul 2013 #21

I do not identify myself by my occupation Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #33

Why am I not surprised? MADem Jul 2013 #68

what a nasty post, & completely unprovoked. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #169

You obviously didn't read the thread if that's your POV. MADem Jul 2013 #171

I read your exchange with harmony blue from beginning to end. Your nasty personal remarks HiPointDem Jul 2013 #173

You're certainly an expert on nasty personal remarks, based on previous interactions with you. nt MADem Jul 2013 #179

you made nasty unprovoked personal remarks about harmony blue. your comments about me HiPointDem Jul 2013 #191

And here you come, to save the day.... MADem Jul 2013 #213

my motive is always to note who turned the conversation to the personal. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #232

Yes, indeedy. That's precisely your motive!! No doubt! nt MADem Jul 2013 #239

yes. it is. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #240

No doubt. MADem Jul 2013 #242

Your perception rings true, HiPointDem.....nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #221

*thumbs up* nt Romulus Quirinus Jul 2013 #70

Experience and time has many lessons for you, hope for your sake you use those lessons well. Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #82

Haha Hydra Jul 2013 #37

What do you mean, found out what Snowden did? If I worked at his work center and knew MADem Jul 2013 #59

Wahahahaha! Th1onein Jul 2013 #67

You have a squirrel in your pocket? "Us?" Try reading the conversation before you hurt MADem Jul 2013 #72

So Wyden and Udall have been successful in revealing these abuses? Th1onein Jul 2013 #80

Now you're just being creative. MADem Jul 2013 #98

How utterly stupid. Th1onein Jul 2013 #160

Well, maybe they need to get off their "warning" asses and pass some laws. MADem Jul 2013 #178

What do you think about the fact that Clapper lied. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #91

I don't think anything about it. MADem Jul 2013 #106

Read the book, They thought they were free. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #116

Sorry...Godwin. I'm out. You just can't tell me that the US is like a country where MADem Jul 2013 #119

Yup. n/t Agschmid Jul 2013 #121

Wow, so snowden is a bad man for telling the truth. Forgot10Hiro Jul 2013 #166

No. Snowden is an enigma at this stage--he could be a double agent, he could be MADem Jul 2013 #180

It gets even worse Forgot10Hiro Jul 2013 #200

You can't argue to save your life. MADem Jul 2013 #211

I don't think pointing out the obvious is an accusation... Forgot10Hiro Jul 2013 #267

Are you doubling down and repeating your accusation that I am a "fascist" because I don't see things MADem Jul 2013 #269

It's clear to me that you have a reading comprehension problem. nt. Forgot10Hiro Jul 2013 #273

Mirror, mirror! MADem Jul 2013 #276

Wow Hydra Jul 2013 #71

I am not convinced that this guy's information is accurate. MADem Jul 2013 #78

Obviously, they CAN'T "fix" shit. Th1onein Jul 2013 #87

Well, when lawmakers can't legislate, perhaps they need replacing. MADem Jul 2013 #139

Sorry, but you are dead ass wrong. Th1onein Jul 2013 #154

Don't be sorry, and no, I'm not wrong. MADem Jul 2013 #181

LOL Hydra Jul 2013 #100

LOL, someone still doesn't know what METADATA is. nt MADem Jul 2013 #188

If Snowden had gone to Udall or Wyden, they would have still been sworn to silence. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #88

I'll bet you a donut he didn't go to ANYONE on ANY Intel Committee. EVER. MADem Jul 2013 #186

"contrarians, newbies, and people who come and go" Scootaloo Jul 2013 #109

Look at the ones who are stirring the shit with the greatest glee. MADem Jul 2013 #124

Bwhahaha!!! I laughed when you suggested that Snowden go to the enablers to fix their own mistakes. Forgot10Hiro Jul 2013 #161

Well, it's obvious that you're easily amused. MADem Jul 2013 #183

Please stop it with the vague internet threat, don't you know that the NSA is listening to you. Forgot10Hiro Jul 2013 #201

Welcome to DU and enjoy your visit with us. Vague internet threat, indeed! MADem Jul 2013 #210

I laugh for no reason at all to. Forgot10Hiro Jul 2013 #268

Well, you should be insecure--you are conducting yourself in a rude fashion. MADem Jul 2013 #270

False indignation doesn't strengthen your lack of an argument. NT Forgot10Hiro Jul 2013 #274

First you get mad because I am laughing, now you insist I am indignant. MADem Jul 2013 #275

Well, it looks like Eddie would have outsmarted you. Apparently he anticipated someone sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #229

Big talk on the internet? Please. MADem Jul 2013 #237

You are wrong LiberalLovinLug Jul 2013 #236

Yes, you have a nice day, too. Invective is never a substitute for substance. MADem Jul 2013 #238

I applaud him for sashaying out that door and wish Swagman Jul 2013 #263

+1000! sheshe2 Jul 2013 #42

Was the government categorizing, charting and then saving the communications JDPriestly Jul 2013 #77

Ooooh, virtually all Americans! MADem Jul 2013 #85

I am curious. Are you the least bit skeptical that our intelligence agencies might be stepping over rhett o rick Jul 2013 #158

Certainly. They've done it before, they'll do it again. MADem Jul 2013 #185

Drake 'took it up the chain of command' and was persecuted, had his career destroyed and sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #103

Manning stole shit and decked his superior in his chain of command. MADem Jul 2013 #118

Drake's case fell apart because there never was a case against him. He has now reached sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #134

Drake's case fell apart because DOD IG was a bunch of mendacious assholes. MADem Jul 2013 #142

And the current program didn't stop the Boston Bombers. Drake did the right thing sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #146

Drake was dealing with the Bush era DOD IG. MADem Jul 2013 #149

Who prosecuted Drake? Manning? And more importantly, who is prosecuting the War Criminals sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #152

Who dropped charges on Drake, at the end of the day? MADem Jul 2013 #212

I can give you names of some of the Wall St. criminals. Funny how people weren't following sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #217

EVERYONE has the idea that Obama is King. The Obama - bashing on this board rivals that MADem Jul 2013 #219

Yes, we certainly did recognize that something had gone terribly wrong. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #224

Let's hope Writely Wrong Jul 2013 #26

I don't see a rainbow with a pot of gold Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #47

that's true BOG PERSON Jul 2013 #57

Why run? brush Jul 2013 #168

peaceably, stealthily, or helter skelter? hopemountain Jul 2013 #190

Dream on jonthebru Jul 2013 #249

Yes you can and your generation is more powerful than you know Caretha Jul 2013 #266

How would you dare with all this Progressive dog Jul 2013 #277

RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!12 frylock Jul 2013 #9

Really? Pharaoh Jul 2013 #10

I TYPE IN CAPS BECAUSE I DRINK BRAWNDO! Scootaloo Jul 2013 #22

Brawndo made me want to go on a run... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #52

... Scootaloo Jul 2013 #81

Did you have a smoke afterwards?... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #89

No, unfortunately, it makes you a mocking idiot. nm Cha Jul 2013 #93

Mocking idiots is a specialty of mine n/t Scootaloo Jul 2013 #96

Yeah, you'd like to think you're the one who's all cool and all but you're Cha Jul 2013 #172

Specifically I'm mocking their over-the-top, all-caps jingo festival Scootaloo Jul 2013 #176

Because it's got electrolytes neverforget Jul 2013 #108

Snowden is the kind of coward you could only hope to be - nt HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #27

If I had the character that Snowden has I'd jump off of bridge and just end it. Tx4obama Jul 2013 #32

I'll just bet you'd be all down with waterboarding and renditioning him too. As the HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #48

LOL you're funny and you have no clue about what I think or believe about any other... Tx4obama Jul 2013 #66

But you're making it very clear to us what you think, TX4obama! Th1onein Jul 2013 #73

You sheshe2 Jul 2013 #110

This message was self-deleted by its author frylock Jul 2013 #75

So you approve of the secret wholesale spying continued for the criminal bu$h administration? RC Jul 2013 #28

My god, you're right! That DOES mean mass surveillance is ok! /nt Marr Jul 2013 #46

Are you opposed to massive domestic surveillance programs? Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #50

He never should have been born nineteen50 Jul 2013 #54

Wow, you seem to be extremely angry! Th1onein Jul 2013 #58

You don't understand that when someone steals government secrets, then runs to China to still_one Jul 2013 #112

HEY! DOES IT MATTER THAT THEY ARE SPYING ON YOU? Th1onein Jul 2013 #157

SORRY, BUT ONCE HE WENT INTERNATIONAL, THAT SEALED HIM AS A TRAITOR PERIOD still_one Jul 2013 #189

Wow! An ad hominem attack. Why am I not surprised? Th1onein Jul 2013 #198

This sounds like projection. reusrename Jul 2013 #197

i love your passion BOG PERSON Jul 2013 #62

+1 still_one Jul 2013 #101

Ruh Roh...CAPITALS. Does someone feel threatened? nt wtmusic Jul 2013 #122

Lol, hard to tell if you could really be serious. n-t Logical Jul 2013 #153

which part makes him a criminal Forgot10Hiro Jul 2013 #159

Yes! He is FELONIOUS. We should all call him Edward "FELONIUS" Snowden from now on. sibelian Jul 2013 #208

coward kardonb Jul 2013 #223

OMG HE'S MAKING ME FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE THINGS ABOUT OBAMA! Maven Jul 2013 #225

So, if the government does it, then it's OK with you? lark Jul 2013 #233

Can't get it out freemay20 Jul 2013 #259

oooga booga!!! the boogey men are under your bed! galileoreloaded Jul 2013 #279

Hear, hear! woo me with science Jul 2013 #5

I wonder who is pulling the strings. MrSlayer Jul 2013 #6

Any idea who? Number23 Jul 2013 #31

IT'S NOT ABOUT SNOWDEN! JaneyVee Jul 2013 #8

True Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #11

Touche! A valid point! backscatter712 Jul 2013 #13

Exactly! JaneyVee Jul 2013 #49

That would have been the case until he moved from domestic spying to international spying still_one Jul 2013 #113

In Europe we think different about that. BB1 Jul 2013 #248

Answer--someone terribly stupid, or suffering from brain damage due to the adult onset MADem Jul 2013 #12

Ah, now you've devolved to disability-bashing. backscatter712 Jul 2013 #14

Please explain, with specificity, how pointing out the effects of epilepsy is "bashing." MADem Jul 2013 #23

Why don't you explain what you meant. There are a lot of people with disabilities on this forum... backscatter712 Jul 2013 #34

Why don't you, since you're so anxious to be offended, spend a little time learning MADem Jul 2013 #144

It IS amazing, the levels they will stoop to, Th1onein Jul 2013 #94

Ooooooooh......THEY!!!! MADem Jul 2013 #145

Um, that is the dumbest post of the internet treestar Jul 2013 #105

A Bush whistleblower is in jail Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #16

Manning grabbed a bunch of shit and gave it to Assange. MADem Jul 2013 #43

k&r usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #19

I love this post... SidDithers Jul 2013 #129

One who did not stay in the country to deal with what he had done treestar Jul 2013 #15

I wouldn't stay in the country Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #18

Oh blah treestar Jul 2013 #102

"One of the least corrupt"? tblue Jul 2013 #230

And you wouldn't be saying the same things about him if he was here and being tortured? Hydra Jul 2013 #44

Right? Romulus Quirinus Jul 2013 #74

Would you really expect him to say here and be tortured as Bradley totodeinhere Jul 2013 #84

The kind who puts everyone who he disagrees with on ignore? Number23 Jul 2013 #20

LOL Hydra Jul 2013 #55

It actually does bug me! I just think it's so damn immature to crow about who you're ignoring Number23 Jul 2013 #65

Many of us are not here to make points or win people over Hydra Jul 2013 #83

I'm here to read. Hard to do that when I've decided that people that don't see the world exactly as Number23 Jul 2013 #95

Then don't be on the wrong side of the evidence Hydra Jul 2013 #107

See, there's that thing called nuance again. Number23 Jul 2013 #132

Preach it sister, and may I associate myself with your remarks? MADem Jul 2013 #218

It's just WEIRD, isn't it? Number23 Jul 2013 #256

I love you; you speak for me, and you had better babylonsister Jul 2013 #260

Harumph, Mr. Plonk doesn't care what you say!!! Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #165

Wish I could rec your post to infinity - n/t HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #25

But, but, but... mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #29

I'm more worried you were not already aware of this... Agschmid Jul 2013 #92

That sounds like a great idea mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #117

It's going to be his best option soon... Agschmid Jul 2013 #120

He's an individual and not rich mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #126

Ummm... Agschmid Jul 2013 #137

Steal state secrets mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #164

Not fighting against him. Agschmid Jul 2013 #196

I disagree specifically because he was informing us of the govt's illegal actions mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #203

Again... Agschmid Jul 2013 #204

Before, it was a very strong suspicion mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #205

I'm done. Agschmid Jul 2013 #207

K&R DeSwiss Jul 2013 #30

Another DURec bvar22 Jul 2013 #35

K&R Cleita Jul 2013 #36

"What Kind Of Coward" would flee to Hong Kong? ProSense Jul 2013 #38

The kind of coward you could only hope to be. - nt HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #76

I don't like being trapped in Russian airports. ProSense Jul 2013 #79

You ought to delete that treestar Jul 2013 #104

Already showing promise as an enduring comeback. wtmusic Jul 2013 #130

If Snowden isn't a coward.. then he should not have acted like one.. Cha Jul 2013 #162

Someone who has been banned from Disneyland for pinching Goofy's ass!! Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #170

The kind of coward that doesn't want to be tortured like Manning n/t eridani Jul 2013 #235

Oh please shawn703 Jul 2013 #40

Selling secrets? Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #51

They keep throwing that accusation, but have no evidence. n/t backscatter712 Jul 2013 #56

The currency shawn703 Jul 2013 #63

Ah, living as an exile under threat of assassination/kidnapping for the rest of his life is freedom. wtmusic Jul 2013 #135

Like Roman Polanski? shawn703 Jul 2013 #195

Roman Polanski exposed evidence of illegal surveillance? wtmusic Jul 2013 #209

Roman Polanski was granted asylum and is wanted by the US shawn703 Jul 2013 #214

Oh, I thought there was a reason why someone would give a crap wtmusic Jul 2013 #215

They all wanted to avoid prosecution for their crimes? shawn703 Jul 2013 #222

Oh come on. Bobby Fischer played a match in Yugoslavia wtmusic Jul 2013 #234

Sad story shawn703 Jul 2013 #243

If they're denying him of the fundamental right of seeking asylum wtmusic Jul 2013 #244

Well shawn703 Jul 2013 #245

I don't think for a second the U.S. is beyond orchestrating a horrible "accident" wtmusic Jul 2013 #250

We will just have to agree to disagree shawn703 Jul 2013 #253

and his 6th amendment rights. he's trying like hell to give those up nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #41

One that was lead by the nose into thinking he'd be a world hero........ Historic NY Jul 2013 #53

+1000. K&R. nt. polly7 Jul 2013 #60

Another screed honoring the douchebag thief... baldguy Jul 2013 #61

Maybe everyone just can't see the forest for the trees. watoos Jul 2013 #64

If the surveilence won't stop Hydra Jul 2013 #114

The kind of person who can't stand to the consequences of his own actions, because doing so could patrice Jul 2013 #69

Those things obviously didn't mean much to him BeyondGeography Jul 2013 #86

The assassin of Yitzhak Rabin was young and thought himself a courageous hero too. Still does. stevenleser Jul 2013 #90

Well, according to some DU posters... Scootaloo Jul 2013 #99

C'mon, compare him to Hitler. I know you want to. wtmusic Jul 2013 #128

I think a discussion of what makes a 'hero' and, conversely, a HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #143

The Heroic kind... on point Jul 2013 #111

He's the kind of coward who won't stand up, and prefers to hide frazzled Jul 2013 #115

If he had stood up you never would have heard his name, would you? wtmusic Jul 2013 #125

Of course we would have frazzled Jul 2013 #133

Never in a million years. wtmusic Jul 2013 #138

Remember Jose Padilla? Due process really served HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #148

Jose who? wtmusic Jul 2013 #156

+1 And the one who has his dad hook up a Libertarian Neo-Con Lawyer for him flamingdem Jul 2013 #131

The kind who hates Social Security, the US Government, and personal responsibility CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #123

A relatively sane one, who realizes the US is a police state. PDJane Jul 2013 #127

Sounds like you're in the slammer railsback Jul 2013 #147

I'm outside of the US, gratefully. PDJane Jul 2013 #199

Ah. Yes, easy to imagine the worst when not living it. railsback Jul 2013 #206

A stupid one who couldn't see past his nose. Lil Missy Jul 2013 #140

K&R. wtmusic Jul 2013 #141

The coordinated anti-Snowden brigade will be all miffed about this thread. Forgot10Hiro Jul 2013 #150

They already are. backscatter712 Jul 2013 #174

What kind of coward? One that is a TRAITOR! SoapBox Jul 2013 #151

Lol, drunk? Me too! n-t Logical Jul 2013 #155

Why did he run? brush Jul 2013 #163

It was sad to see so many DUers flinging poop at Snowden upi402 Jul 2013 #182

We SO need unrec back. Lady Freedom Returns Jul 2013 #184

Ha. moondust Jul 2013 #187

I think the author is confusing Summer Hathaway Jul 2013 #192

The kind of coward blue cat Jul 2013 #193

1. Man, it's exciting, isn't it? Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #194

He's no coward, but that doesn't, in itself, make him a hero. It's not just intentions that count. leveymg Jul 2013 #202

Mostly he is just Human, and i think it is quite easy to afford him that nolabels Jul 2013 #216

Kicked and Recommended! nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #220

coward? nah..just a dumb ass madrchsod Jul 2013 #226

"I am not here to try and hide from justice." randome Jul 2013 #227

K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #228

I agree. He's not a coward. Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #231

thank you yurbud Jul 2013 #241

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #246

Some people argue terrorists aren't cowards as well michigandem58 Jul 2013 #247

I love how you guys harp "PROVE IT!!!!!111!!!" when it comes to the NSA Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #251

At 29, I still obediently accepted big brother's every proclamation and edict. At 35, I began to indepat Jul 2013 #254

Who cares if he's a coward, Progressive dog Jul 2013 #261

K&R pam4water Jul 2013 #262

They're waking up ProSense Jul 2013 #264

Perfect timing! Theoted Jul 2013 #265

Perhaps calling him a coward isn't accurate... Blanks Jul 2013 #271

If the U.S. wasn't supermaxing and torturing people and giving them kangaroo trials... backscatter712 Jul 2013 #272

The solution to that is not handle it the way Manning did. Blanks Jul 2013 #278

Kick n-t Logical Jul 2013 #281

I would change the word coward to traitor. . B Calm Jul 2013 #282