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DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)

50. I hope this is not another pitiful attempt at explaining away.....

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 08:45 PM

Jul 2013

...our own perfidy by pointing fingers at some other guy. The ''everybody does it'' defense is total BULLSHIT. Okay?

- This is the shit right-wingers do.

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If you have been fooled into believing the German Government is mad at us... [View all] stevenleser Jul 2013 OP

What European countries may do internally dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #1

Read the last paragraph of what I posted again. nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #2

That doesn't change issue dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #6

Germany is doing it universally to the world. We know to what they will admit. That means they are stevenleser Jul 2013 #11

Agreed. The babe in the woods routine is insulting really. MrSlayer Jul 2013 #3

There is an aspect of willful naivete to it that is insulting and funny at the same time. stevenleser Jul 2013 #15

The 2006 affair was found to be "very clearly illegal" by the parliamentary investigation Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #4

Perhaps. They are still ramping up their online surveillance. nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #8

That may very well be. But they apologized and fired people for the 2006 affair. Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #13

That was the second incident of them spying on journalists. There was another incident not too long BenzoDia Jul 2013 #16

How habitual is it for the NSA to apologize and fire people over such stuff? Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #19

Germany has a specific law against BND involving itself with journalists. We don't. Nevertheless stevenleser Jul 2013 #32

So... Not habitual... Which was my point. nt Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #34

Yes habitual. You are wrong. Habitual oversight. Habitual taking to task for any perceived rule stevenleser Jul 2013 #40

Again. I am talking about the level of criticism and sanctions. Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #49

I'm sure the German people are just as happy as their government about NSA spying Fumesucker Jul 2013 #5

The BND's predecessor was the Gehlen Group. stevenleser Jul 2013 #7

Evidently you agree with me, no big deal to the German public Fumesucker Jul 2013 #9

in Germany the process goes like this> news item about some local or national body spying somehow> KittyWampus Jul 2013 #62

Is there a road map or some other visual aid to help explain this? nt bike man Jul 2013 #64

google Germany and Surveillance for news items from that country. Slow, steady stream of stories KittyWampus Jul 2013 #65

Hell no. Cha Jul 2013 #10

That you don't see the irony of dismissing concerns with; Germany is good with spying on everyone usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #12

It's also very misleading as the BND is on a very tight leash compared to the NSA. Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #14

Outwardly it may seem the BND is on a tight leash. It's clearly not true. The evidence is in stevenleser Jul 2013 #18

The evidence is in my responses in this thread. Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #20

You've offered little to nothing other than the schaeffer report which is not related to my main stevenleser Jul 2013 #26

It shows that the BND is subject to a level of oversight that the NSA is not. Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #31

NSA and CIA and FBI are subject to constant congressional oversight. There are regular hearings and stevenleser Jul 2013 #33

This does not contradict what I said... Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #36

Yes, it does contradict what you said. The oversight is just as strong here. And apparently stevenleser Jul 2013 #41

If you want to believe that the difference is wrongdoing by the agencies... Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #47

Exactly usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #23

Generally, certainly more concerned than Americans are. nt Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #25

Yes, so concerned... that they ask us to share the data we get from the means that supposedly stevenleser Jul 2013 #27

Yes I am. Just look how controversial the debate about Vorratsdatenspeicherung is. Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #28

The German people are asking us to share data? Check the antecedent. DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #42

These are their Democratically elected representatives are they not? They even have a more rapid way stevenleser Jul 2013 #43

I will answer thusly DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #44

Nope, not trying to comfort concerns, directly refuting a talking point. stevenleser Jul 2013 #17

And that is misleading as well since it censors the view of German citizens usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #29

I'm 'censoring' the view of German citizens? I think the word you are searching for is omitting. stevenleser Jul 2013 #37

Censorship by omission, yep, that's exactly what you are doing to present a false narrative usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #45

That's not how I interpret the responses to the OP. nt ucrdem Jul 2013 #39

I think this must be Liberatarian open enrollment week ucrdem Jul 2013 #35

are they part of that EU agency that decided to deny flight space to Morales just for laughs? frylock Jul 2013 #21

And it bolsters might point even further. Yes, the Europeans make their own decisions. They have stevenleser Jul 2013 #24

really? so you want to continue to deny any US involvement whatsoever? frylock Jul 2013 #57

Don't inject reality into the hope that CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #22

If the whole world thought it was ok to sell a daughter in marriage Savannahmann Jul 2013 #30

Now you are comparing the policies of the European Democracies to Saudi daughter selling? nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #38

Ooooh. $26 million a year. Heady numbers, those. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2013 #46

We haven't been "fooled" Steven. And your OP is drivel. Th1onein Jul 2013 #48

I hope this is not another pitiful attempt at explaining away..... DeSwiss Jul 2013 #50

It's not a "defense." It's a view of the playing field, that most here seem to miss. MADem Jul 2013 #52

An irate DUer wagged a finger at me because I'm apparently insufficiently upset! nt MADem Jul 2013 #51

they get upset enough for the whole planet.. Cha Jul 2013 #53

Indeed, you are quite right! nt MADem Jul 2013 #54

Anyway, the grownups involved are going to be discussing this.. Cha Jul 2013 #55

Poor Steve:Obama, Merkel agree to high-level talks on U.S. surveillance program Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #56

LOL. Meeting contents - Merkel: "OK Barack, I have to pretend I am doing something here..." stevenleser Jul 2013 #60

$130 million in 5 years. $26 million a year. MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #58

This a total turd thrown against the wall. TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #63

Doesn't fit the meme railsback Jul 2013 #59

Nice little list by platform and nation of SIGINT ops: DevonRex Jul 2013 #61