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MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)

100. "Also stood their ground and went to jail..."

Thu Jul 4, 2013, 01:45 PM

Jul 2013

... Hmmm... this calls for a history lesson: The signers of the Declaration of Independence felt that "a decent respect to the opinions of mankind" called for more than a little radicalism. Their overseers, the monarchies of Europe and empires of the East apparently did not see eye to eye that "man was created equal" because there were serfs and nobles. Happiness just so happened to be an accident in the middle of an arduous daily life. The defiance of these new "Americans" are spelled out beginning in the first two paragraphs - "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."

vdogg, if you can't see that we have the same problems of this nation in our "overseers" who since 2001 have pushed an unequal agenda against all men and women who are "created equal", then open your eyes a little further. The view you choose to adapt to, which makes one American stand up for these unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, is to say this person is "cozying up to the Russians or the Chinese", but that is not self evident... it's a talking point that you think you can push with me.

I actually join with those who are willing to act as the radicals who signed the Declaration of Independence in loving this country. In my view, this actually goes beyond reciting the bunk you just wrote.

Welcome to DU "real conversation", vdogg and Happy 4th of July!

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Nobody is going to change their mind about Snowden. [View all] kentuck Jul 2013 OP

A person can believe in privacy rights and at the same time think that Snowden is a criminal... Tx4obama Jul 2013 #1

This. The demand to think unilaterally is weird. CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #2

Of course the remedy, as you point out here... Kurovski Jul 2013 #35

leaking information to foreign countries who aren't our allies at imopportune moments is not "whistl KittyWampus Jul 2013 #51

when george bush is prosecuted for killing thousands of americans and hundreds of thousands HiPointDem Jul 2013 #64

It is a fact of life vdogg Jul 2013 #76

oh go tell the marines HiPointDem Jul 2013 #98

well goodness qazplm Jul 2013 #101

that the US goes after a guy who reveals information that could put the criminal george bush HiPointDem Jul 2013 #104

A whistle-blower exposes ILLEGAL activity CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #57

And a glibbety-globbety-gloob to you as well. Kurovski Jul 2013 #58

And to you as well! CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #74

How do you know it was legal? kentuck Jul 2013 #93

"demand to think unilaterally" - yip, plus the name-calling ("authoritarians") - plus UTUSN Jul 2013 #88

My ATA question of Sat Apr 13, 2013, 10:22 AM UTUSN Jul 2013 #92

Agreed. They are not mutually exclusive. Liberal Veteran Jul 2013 #4

Yup. n/t Chan790 Jul 2013 #11

Alexander and Clapper should be punished first for lying to the people. dkf Jul 2013 #17

Clapper "apologized." These days, that earns the 1% a pass when it comes to perjury or HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #18

a jury can find guilt but dismiss because they believe the nineteen50 Jul 2013 #59

A person could think Snowden is a criminal... MrMickeysMom Jul 2013 #70

Snowden already publicly stated he committed crimes. So, in my book case closed on that issue :) Tx4obama Jul 2013 #71

Well, let's hear it for open mindedness... MrMickeysMom Jul 2013 #72

Those that came before us vdogg Jul 2013 #78

"Also stood their ground and went to jail..." MrMickeysMom Jul 2013 #100

Not a talking point vdogg Jul 2013 #102

How do you know how "those that came before us" would feel about what has taken place? MrMickeysMom Jul 2013 #106

I'm one of those people who believes in privacy rights and also thinks Snowden committed crimes Hekate Jul 2013 #73

This x2. Your post encapsulates the issue related to Skidmore Jul 2013 #79

Pretty much covers my opinion as well. MH1 Jul 2013 #97

Of course they can, I do, Progressive dog Jul 2013 #103

+1 flamingdem Jul 2013 #105

I think some minds can be changed once Snowden is in custody. randome Jul 2013 #3

Apparently, some think that he should get a pass for handing information to China and Russia. CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #5

Well, Obama should be putting the Bush criminals on trial! Liberal Veteran Jul 2013 #6

We would all like to see that happen. randome Jul 2013 #9

Bush: Fraud against the American people. Cheney: Torture and HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #19

Those are vague labels. Ones I agree with completely. randome Jul 2013 #25

On the contrary, both fraud and torture are specific statutes chargeable in the HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #29

they never will tell us what the statutes are treestar Jul 2013 #56

I know. It's sometimes hard to get my mind around a response to that. randome Jul 2013 #75

In A Just World... KharmaTrain Jul 2013 #86

How about War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity. RC Jul 2013 #28

Nice concept, but...what has that to do with Snowden's data theft and handoff to foreign countries? CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #12

Not a thing. It was just another of the stock deflection strategies. Liberal Veteran Jul 2013 #14

No prob. Kind of crazy that it's getting hard to tell CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #15

Snowden said he "saw things!" He said stuff! randome Jul 2013 #7

At this point Snowden would serve his supporters by returning to the USA and fighting it bluestate10 Jul 2013 #8

Logically, yes. But paranoia prevails here now. CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #13

Snowden is the kind of coward you could only hope to be - nt HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #21

+1 countmyvote4real Jul 2013 #50

And be treated like Bradly Manning? RC Jul 2013 #32

Manning is military. Snowden is not subject to the UCMJ. nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #40

And you point is? RC Jul 2013 #41

If you dont understand the difference between the Military and Civilian Justice systems you have a stevenleser Jul 2013 #47

Oh, I understand the difference all right. Do you? RC Jul 2013 #85

I'm former Air Force. I understand the difference quite well. You apparently don't. nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #87

I am former Navy. So what? RC Jul 2013 #89

Unlike you apparently, I did not sleep through the briefings on military justice. nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #90

That is all you got from my post #85? RC Jul 2013 #91

Amazing how many times that has to be pointed out treestar Jul 2013 #52

Just because a driver thinks it is ok to drive 100 mph and the speed limit is 60 does not mean the Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #10

Should it ever be a crime to report wrong doing? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #20

In the case of Snowden, employees of NSA are exempt from protection of the Whistleblower Act Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #26

Actually, he was employed by a private contractor usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #33

Again I ask if you would be okay if a communications company released your phone call records to Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #34

Bad analogy as he did nothing like that but how would you feel if your business partner released ALL usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #62

Now you are getting the picture, exactly what Snowden has done, and was not released to the Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #81

your going in circles usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #83

Like a dog chasing its tail, you finally caught yours. enjoy reality. Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #84

Didn't this guy take an oath? brush Jul 2013 #42

Yes, and so did our leaders, to protect and defend our rights and liberties. So is it a crime usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #65

Sounds more like a spy to me brush Jul 2013 #67

Because he released TOP SECRET docs to the press - Whistleblower usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #68

Should've stayed and "owned" what he did. nt brush Jul 2013 #96

You left out the part about Snowden STEALING the classified goverment documents and equipment. Tx4obama Jul 2013 #43

that is a conclusion you jumped to treestar Jul 2013 #54

As long as some are reaching for metaphors to justify an absolute or ambiguous position� countmyvote4real Jul 2013 #61

I disagree, not everyone has made up their minds usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #16

On this I agree. CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #22

Ignoring is a feature here usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #30

Ignoring those that disagree is a path that the weak willed take. Anyone that has real bluestate10 Jul 2013 #53

Good post. And I do not believe DU'ers thoughts are as binary OP makes them out to be emulatorloo Jul 2013 #55

Four words: "Tip of the iceberg" - nt HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #23

1 number and 3 words: indicted within 24 hours Renew Deal Jul 2013 #31

Excellent point usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #37

I'm still on the fence and see both sides of the debate. JaneyVee Jul 2013 #24

I disagree Renew Deal Jul 2013 #27

I am on the fence nevergiveup Jul 2013 #36

Never try to teach a pig to sing Lil Missy Jul 2013 #38

I haven't made my mind up Hydra Jul 2013 #39

Don't think Einstein helped build the bomb brush Jul 2013 #44

No, but he encouraged Roosevelt Union Scribe Jul 2013 #46

I did a little digging Hydra Jul 2013 #48

If he hadn't done what he did vdogg Jul 2013 #80

Hard to say Hydra Jul 2013 #99

People who think as rigidly as you do, perhaps . . . MrModerate Jul 2013 #45

I disagree with 4 Hydra Jul 2013 #49

#4 really reminds me of the rationales successive administrations deployed to justify HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #69

I think there would be a lot less Snowden haters here if McCain/Palin were in office. nt Incitatus Jul 2013 #60

Wait, wait, I changed my mind! flamingdem Jul 2013 #63

It would be difficult to care significantly less about Snowden Savannahmann Jul 2013 #66

You are what you are - Very True YeahSureRight Jul 2013 #77

Certain "people" aren't paid to be persuadable. backscatter712 Jul 2013 #82

And some of us get it, not about Snowden nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #94

It's hardly that simple. MineralMan Jul 2013 #95