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struggle4progress

(126,422 posts)
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 02:17 AM Jul 2013

My current take on the Bolivia plane story [View all]

REMARK: There is in my mind no question that during the Bush era, the US made serious efforts (1) to limit Morales' prospects as a Presidential candidate, and (2) to destabilize Bolivia by supporting secessionist movements in various regions; for more details, check the Latin America forum archives in DU2. So Morales' touchiness here isn't a product of mere fantastic paranoid projections: it is rooted in his personal experience and in rather recent history

PORTUGAL. Portugal claims that it originally approved overflights and landings for Morales' round trip, but the day before the return notified Bolivia that although overflight posed no problem, refueling in Lisbon would be impossible for some unspecified technical reason. That could actually be a consequence of the multiple strikes affecting the Lisbon airport in the last days of June: there might have been maintenance or staffing or supply issues, for example, resulting from repeated disruptions of normal airport routine, for which recovery might take a while. According to Portugal, Bolivia was at first quite insistent that it could not re-route its continental fuel stop to elsewhere than Lisbon, though eventually Bolivia agreed to refuel elsewhere. It is unclear to me where Bolivia intended to refuel prior to heading over the Atlantic, if refueling at Lisbon was denied

AUSTRIA. Austria apparently received an emergency landing request associated with low fuel, or perhaps a fuel indicator problem, and allowed the plane to land in Vienna. The stories available in English diverge here: some assert that Austria demanded to search the plane but Bolivia refused; some assert Austria searched the plane; some assert Austrian officials walked through the cabin checking passports but did not otherwise search the plane; some assert the Austrians conversed with the Bolivians at the cabin door. It might not be unusual to check the passports of international travelers in the case of an emergency landing; in any case, Bolivia does not seem to be complaining about its treatment by the Austrians.

FRANCE. France's current posture towards the US does not suggest that the French would immediately agree to every possible US request regarding Snowden: France, for example, is currently suggesting that upcoming trade talks should be postponed until the US provides satisfactory answers to questions about Snowden's allegations that the US monitors conversations in the EU and attempted to penetrate EU government offices. The official French story is that France was confused about the number of planes involved and who was aboard. According to France, overflight permission was granted as soon as France understood the request was simply for Morales' plane; France has apologized for the confusion. Such confusion is not at all impossible: if Bolivia filed a second overflight request with France, after failing to convince Portugal to allow the original Lisbon refueling, miscommunications might indeed have led French aviation authorities to wonder why they had TWO different overflight requests from Bolivia

SPAIN. Spain says that it originally approved overflight and refueling in the Canary Islands, then re-approved the re-scheduled overflight and refueling in the Canary Islands after the flight delay. The plane refueled in the Canary Islands, as originally expected. There have been some unclear claims about Spanish demands to search the plane, but as far as I can tell these claims do not involve the Canary Island refueling stop. Did the Bolivians, denied access to Lisbon, plan a refueling landing in Spain, without seeking advance permission from the Spanish and then turn back to Vienna, upon being told that such a stop would require the passengers to exhibit passports?

ITALY. Italy apparently received a request that it regarded as moot after the plane landed in Austria. The natural guess here would be that the request to Italy was an emergency landing request, like the request to Austria, made as a contingency in the event that a Vienna landing was infeasible

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My current take on the Bolivia plane story [View all] struggle4progress Jul 2013 OP
Here's the link to the information about the pilot reporting fuel indicator issues. Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #1
See my post. It was so they could land because they were running out of fuel. n/t Cleita Jul 2013 #3
So, Cali.. the pilot and Pres Morales had Cha Jul 2013 #14
The fuel indicator problem was a ruse the pilot used to be able to land. Cleita Jul 2013 #2
That's possible. Do you know where they had intended to refuel? struggle4progress Jul 2013 #4
The Canary Islands. n/t magellan Jul 2013 #6
I read the original flight plan was Lisbon but then it was rescinded when it was rumored that Cleita Jul 2013 #8
You're right, it was Lisbon originally, not Canary Islands. magellan Jul 2013 #10
The Canaries were on the flight plan as a refueling stop, before the plane left Russia. MADem Jul 2013 #9
so they lied. Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #5
Yes, they lied to be able to land or should they have just run out of fuel and Cleita Jul 2013 #7
Well they lied! boston bean Jul 2013 #22
It sounds like they used weasel words to me. dawg Jul 2013 #33
What did Snowden do now? Life Long Dem Jul 2013 #11
So far i have not seen any consideration given to the flight crew Downwinder Jul 2013 #12
Wow, that's still confusing to me.. thank you Cha Jul 2013 #13
I email some people in Europe and ask them about this or that crisis. They tell me it's bunkum. freshwest Jul 2013 #15
"..a lot of what we read is equivalent to a grocery store scandal sheet like the National Inquirer" Cha Jul 2013 #16
Let me summarize: Portugal turned down a request to refuel in Lisbon, so Bolivia had to rework struggle4progress Jul 2013 #17
Got it! Mahalo, struggle4progress! Cha Jul 2013 #38
So if all these countries were our merest puppets... randome Jul 2013 #18
I wonder if any cosideration has been given to the idea that some Skidmore Jul 2013 #36
Another good point that should be directed toward Cha Jul 2013 #39
It wasn't "France" that approved the airspace use, it was the President of France, Hollande Fumesucker Jul 2013 #19
Could be. Or maybe that's just the way he talks struggle4progress Jul 2013 #20
Is that your final answer? Fumesucker Jul 2013 #23
I generally don't try to parse politicians' speech too closely struggle4progress Jul 2013 #28
But parsing a clear meaning as something else is *precisely* what you are doing with your comment Fumesucker Jul 2013 #30
okay Gentlemen - time to finish this speculation thread here temmer Jul 2013 #21
Spain sees no reason to apologize to Bolivia in Snowden saga struggle4progress Jul 2013 #24
so what? how about responding to Spain saying that cali Jul 2013 #25
... The minister did not say who supplied the information and declined to say whether struggle4progress Jul 2013 #26
so what? he said quite clearly that they'd been informed cali Jul 2013 #29
So Mr Spanish Foreign Minister is (1) making it clear that Spain's hands are clean, and (2) struggle4progress Jul 2013 #27
Your characterziation of the information as "vague gossip" is horse shit. cali Jul 2013 #31
Though we differ on the spreaders, at least we agree horse shizz being spread about! struggle4progress Jul 2013 #32
Wow, from your link, struggle.. Cha Jul 2013 #40
Why is there no discussion of the fuel gauge? A flight claiming a fuel gauge problem okaawhatever Jul 2013 #34
According to Portugal, on Monday Portugal notified Bolivia that the scheduled Lisbon landing struggle4progress Jul 2013 #35
The new article claiming the plane was forced to land really gets under my skin. The only reason the okaawhatever Jul 2013 #37
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