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ngjtk

(2 posts)

134. How naive I was

Fri Jul 5, 2013, 02:29 AM

Jul 2013

I signed up after 9-11 for the Navy. It wasn't until my ship was guarding oil rigs off the coast of Iraq that I suspected anything... I was raised conservative, voted for Bush Twice (while enlisted). I knew all the popular history, hell I knew it all, I thought. It wasn't until Obama started going after guns that I was awoken by the 200 ton elephant in the room. Patriot act, NDAA, SOPA PIPA, CISPA, Federal Reserve, etc... Its like waking up to a god damn nightmare, every day. Since then I cannot stop reading, and figuring. I came to this site back in 03¿ and thought it was a hotbed of neurosis and anti Americans. Now you all sound logical and well read. Its absolutely correct that active duty guys have zero time to entertain politics. If I wasn't working a 14 hour day I was sleeping, drinking or doing anything distracting. I am in absolute awe of this thread and glad to finally see that we really aren't all that different. I hope more Americans are waking up, this crap has to end. Our family chose not to celebrate the fourth this year, and all of us are vets.

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This may not be a popular idea, but we didn't fight for your freedom. [View all] upaloopa Jul 2013 OP

Unfortunately, true.... Wounded Bear Jul 2013 #1

+1 lsewpershad Jul 2013 #68

K&R "War is a racket" think Jul 2013 #2

Sad but true fjlovato Jul 2013 #7

Yep. There is always a case for self defense but most of our wars don't qualify... think Jul 2013 #16

The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq did "pay for themselves..." hunter Jul 2013 #39

Doh! think Jul 2013 #41

The celebration kicked off early in our community last night... hunter Jul 2013 #65

Yep. Paid for themselves, if you don't count taxpayers. merrily Jul 2013 #102

K&R 99Forever Jul 2013 #3

War is a Racket. Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #4

K&R Arkansas Granny Jul 2013 #5

Well put: "for the growing of the wealth of the 1%." Smarmie Doofus Jul 2013 #6

I wish I could rec this more than once! Martin Eden Jul 2013 #8

au contrair pasto76 Jul 2013 #12

au contrair 2 Martin Eden Jul 2013 #64

Which rhetoric is for dumbshit Americans who want to feel like tough guys? merrily Jul 2013 #75

The Real 1% 4Q2u2 Jul 2013 #152

Something very few vets come to terms with easily once we come home. marble falls Jul 2013 #9

Many vets see themselves The Wizard Jul 2013 #25

Pure wizardry! Enthusiast Jul 2013 #48

Hey, don't spoil the brainwashing! nt valerief Jul 2013 #10

Every 4th and Memorial Day.. I honor those who serve.. especially Peacetrain Jul 2013 #11

Honor our service, but don't accept uncritically what we served for. marble falls Jul 2013 #31

Very well put. Hoyt Jul 2013 #56

+1000. premium Jul 2013 #66

Here, here! brush Jul 2013 #141

+1 n/t pitbullgirl1965 Jul 2013 #145

What's the point of freedom without $? We fought those wars for our economic security JackN415 Jul 2013 #13

I guess people need reasons to justify war. Yours is a new one to me. I assume you are not being upaloopa Jul 2013 #15

1- sarcastic or not depending on your interpretation. 2- where did I say that this... JackN415 Jul 2013 #23

Then clearly it's not about "freedom," tblue Jul 2013 #121

Not to defend it in the slightest, but his is one of the oldest justifications for war there is. Posteritatis Jul 2013 #114

For rich folk's economic security. Lex Jul 2013 #19

Yes, we did. The trickled down stuffs in their pants. Don't you know? JackN415 Jul 2013 #24

No. This is one of the most important myths... JackRiddler Jul 2013 #58

It's best to leave to historians like Gibbon, Durant, or... JackN415 Jul 2013 #74

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ socialist_n_TN Jul 2013 #27

American Workers Used to get a Cut of the Spoils ... HumansAndResources Jul 2013 #125

Do you have a mouse in you pocket? rdharma Jul 2013 #28

our=the USA. How to divide the spoil between the ruling elite and the dead soldiers.. JackN415 Jul 2013 #35

"Trickle Down", eh? rdharma Jul 2013 #37

You can always negotiate for a better piece real estate on a memorial wall for your name JackN415 Jul 2013 #40

There are other means to economic security. War is about the worst choice. gtar100 Jul 2013 #32

please see this:http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3167014 JackN415 Jul 2013 #36

This message was self-deleted by its author JackN415 Jul 2013 #77

Holy shit. WilliamPitt Jul 2013 #33

Nice admission burnodo Jul 2013 #44

So we fought wars for economic security. Maedhros Jul 2013 #104

All the money down the drain for wars and "defense" contractors Arugula Latte Jul 2013 #135

In other words - sibelian Jul 2013 #136

armed robbery JackN415 Jul 2013 #150

You said all... Sancho Jul 2013 #14

Thanks for saying it. zeemike Jul 2013 #17

I say again The Wizard Jul 2013 #18

Well, if not the Vietcong, then the next domino like Malaysians... then JackN415 Jul 2013 #30

Logic is not your forte: slippery-slope SkyIsGrey Jul 2013 #42

History is not your forte. When were you born? google "Domino theory" Vietnam war. JackN415 Jul 2013 #46

I know of it. SkyIsGrey Jul 2013 #55

Parody and satire are not your forte. Ever read things like the Onion? JackN415 Jul 2013 #71

More like Poe's law. SkyIsGrey Jul 2013 #83

Think he just forgot the sarcasm tag. nt brush Jul 2013 #142

Are you aware that we LOST the War in Vietnam? bvar22 Jul 2013 #86

We did????? when? :D ... my post was a satire of the unbelievably stupid domino theory JackN415 Jul 2013 #100

Dominoe's............ JimboBillyBubbaBob Jul 2013 #146

"Parody and satire are not your forte." bvar22 Jul 2013 #109

and like humor and beauty... it's a matter of taste JackN415 Jul 2013 #115

Don't forget Brewinblue Jul 2013 #82

You can't escape the fate that the sun will be a Red giant and swallow the whole earth eventually JackN415 Jul 2013 #90

Bwaahahahahaha! truebluegreen Jul 2013 #106

Vietnam is communist what have we lost? upaloopa Jul 2013 #96

Psst: I don't think he is being serious truebluegreen Jul 2013 #107

This is too true, however, Curmudgeoness Jul 2013 #20

That's right... ReRe Jul 2013 #21

PLUS ONE! Enthusiast Jul 2013 #54

Thanks, Enthusiast... ReRe Jul 2013 #61

I served and Vietnameravet Jul 2013 #22

WW2 is truly a moral war and those who served should be very proud JackN415 Jul 2013 #43

I think if you look at the difference between N and S Korea 7962 Jul 2013 #118

We've disagreed on Snowden before today, but I wanted to let you know that you and your generation HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #108

Thank you, upaloopa. Octafish Jul 2013 #26

Thanks for the truth on a jingoistic holiday... socialist_n_TN Jul 2013 #29

Actually it was the Vietnamese who were fighting for their freedom. Zen Democrat Jul 2013 #34

Yes but misguided. It was a civil war and we had better not got involved, the way we JackN415 Jul 2013 #50

Factual. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #59

My dad, who served in the USAF for 23 years, probably felt this way. kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #38

Those that cheer the wars are invariably chickenhawks. nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #60

You and I kinda got into this yesterday premium Jul 2013 #45

Exactly...........nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #62

Good post. Hoyt Jul 2013 #63

lovely response Skittles Jul 2013 #72

I also found names of my friends on the Wall. upaloopa Jul 2013 #99

I never said anything about glory, premium Jul 2013 #101

Vietnam was different. pitbullgirl1965 Jul 2013 #151

Thank you pitbullgirl1965. nt. premium Jul 2013 #153

I don't want to hijack the thread--actually add to the idea-- mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #47

I was walking in Ben Hoa in Feb 1968 after it was upaloopa Jul 2013 #105

And 45 years later you probably wouldn't recognize Vietnam. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #110

I should have said 45 years later, I keep losing track of time the older I get. One of the things upaloopa Jul 2013 #130

It is a simple concept Rain Mcloud Jul 2013 #49

It is a lot more complex than that treestar Jul 2013 #51

I think this applies to the US Civil War, too. 12AngryBorneoWildmen Jul 2013 #52

The war for The Carlyle Group, Booz Allen, et al Civilization2 Jul 2013 #53

Well said. nt rrneck Jul 2013 #57

Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy. - Henry Kissinger L0oniX Jul 2013 #67

I agree completely. Arugula Latte Jul 2013 #69

Powerful post and comments pitbullgirl1965 Jul 2013 #143

I agreed with Kosovo. East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #70

Thank you for your insight and candor. merrily Jul 2013 #73

There were 2,594,000 U.S. troops in Viet Nam from 65-73. You don't speak for all Vets. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #76

It's not just my opinion, it is the truth. upaloopa Jul 2013 #129

Agreed upaloopa..... BrainDrain Jul 2013 #139

You say "patriotism will always be exploited" How can that be if none of the 2.5 million Viet Nam AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #156

Since there were 2,594,000 of us in Viet Nam, I don't consider the status of one person as being a AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #157

I was drafted and I been through all that shit upaloopa Jul 2013 #159

Your special claim as a Viet Nam vet and your irrational insults don't make what you say to be true. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #160

Look, all I said was we didn't fight to protect our freedoms. You added all the extra shit around upaloopa Jul 2013 #161

Agreed. I'd say WWII was the last war where our freedom was seriously threatened. geckosfeet Jul 2013 #78

And during WWII there was some effort to go after the war profiteers dflprincess Jul 2013 #123

My only problem with the phrase" Freedom isn't free" is that these people aren't included: hedgehog Jul 2013 #79

And that is essentially why I don't support the troops. MotherPetrie Jul 2013 #80

Absolutely-even during the Civil war, it was the poor man fighting the rich mans war KrazyinKS Jul 2013 #81

Rich people are always fucking over the poor people -- always have, always will Jessy169 Jul 2013 #84

Yep. If poor people let them. merrily Jul 2013 #97

We haven't had a Pearl Harbor because countries don't think like that anymore.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #85

Tell that to Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, et al. merrily Jul 2013 #87

You just did. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #93

Actually, I didn't. merrily Jul 2013 #95

Didn't you hear? They're monitoring us right now. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #98

M.A.D. obsoleted massive war between superpowers Jessy169 Jul 2013 #89

What we have are frustrated people fed up with being told to know their place.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #91

K&R idwiyo Jul 2013 #88

Absolutely, positively, Nailed It. bvar22 Jul 2013 #92

Thanks for stating this plainly. Every time I attend a sporting event a LibDemAlways Jul 2013 #94

Exactly. We used to have season tickets to football games at UNC. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #155

I think its funny, Eisenhower,giving advice on war??? LOL. All Eisenhower gave us was Nixon. nt. graham4anything Jul 2013 #103

Korea was an exception DonCoquixote Jul 2013 #111

Eisenhower was concerned that the MIC costs would prevent building schools & hospitals. SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2013 #112

kr HiPointDem Jul 2013 #113

A government of, by, and for the corporations will tend to fight and scrape for every scrap indepat Jul 2013 #116

We have been attacked since Pearl Harbor: 9/11/2001. intheflow Jul 2013 #117

Thank you for your service, upaloopa mike dub Jul 2013 #119

Please don't forget..... TinkerTot55 Jul 2013 #120

General Smedley Darlington Butler, 1933 Triana Jul 2013 #122

This may also not be popular, but we didn't ask you to. ElboRuum Jul 2013 #124

I am not one to tell you that you are lucky for anything. I was drafted in April 1966. My draft upaloopa Jul 2013 #126

K & R, from another Vietnam Vet. AnotherDreamWeaver Jul 2013 #127

The Ohio Company formed before the USA. Hooray USA, built on genocide! Coyotl Jul 2013 #128

Thank you -- this so needed to be said! markpkessinger Jul 2013 #131

They fought for the freedom of Big Oil, Big Banks, Big Agra - Monsanto, etc. That is all. donheld Jul 2013 #132

Rec from me. n/t susanna Jul 2013 #133

How naive I was ngjtk Jul 2013 #134

I'm honored you added your post to this thread. I saw a documentry on Netflix called "Carrier". It upaloopa Jul 2013 #138

Hello ~ ngjtk In_The_Wind Jul 2013 #144

You fought to keep you and your buddies from dying. Pure and simple. Nanjing to Seoul Jul 2013 #137

Great post brush Jul 2013 #140

Thanks for the honesty. dotymed Jul 2013 #147

I was just thinking, what do you think African Americans in Vietnam and LGBT people in Iraq and upaloopa Jul 2013 #149

I agree with every word you said tavernier Jul 2013 #148

True, but it is not up to Us 4Q2u2 Jul 2013 #154

Thank You for saying it! Stainless Jul 2013 #158