General Discussion

dkf

(37,305 posts)

62. No. I think the words attributed to TM are suspect.

Fri Jul 5, 2013, 08:37 PM

Jul 2013

"You got me". Ludicrous.

But 2nd degree "depraved mind" seems a high bar from what I've been reading.

And yet self defense seems to trump 2nd or manslaughter. Say Z was racially prejudiced and threw the first punch. By my reading he still gets to claim self defense if he reasonably thought his life was in danger or he was in danger of serious bodily harm. That seems like a pretty low bar to me.

The problem is the law IMO. There is no protection for people who get into fights. Once they dominate offensively they are open targets. Rather strange law with strange interpretations.

This whole case turns things on its head from what I always thought about manslaughter in particular. I thought that was the punishment for an unintended death.

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I'll never forget the look in their eyes, they were terrified of me... [View all] MrScorpio Jul 2013 OP

I don't think that is it... dkf Jul 2013 #1

If someone had a gun pointed at me gollygee Jul 2013 #4

But the prosecution isn't making that argument are they? dkf Jul 2013 #8

You said YOU didn't believe it was him screaming for that reason gollygee Jul 2013 #9

Like Nailing Jello To The Wall, Ma'am, This One.... The Magistrate Jul 2013 #13

No evidence TM was on the bottom. Can we go with the assumption TM yelling for help while on top? dkf Jul 2013 #20

The Person The Gun Points Towards, Ma'am, Is The Person In Fear.... The Magistrate Jul 2013 #26

He has to be lying about his injuries gollygee Jul 2013 #31

I heard GZ say his head was hit once on the concrete, then he was able to shimmy onto the grass. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #66

His legal team said it. He was hit about 12 times. Bashed in the head on the concrete. And he has Maraya1969 Jul 2013 #77

Then why were there no consistant injuries to Trayvons hands? 1monster Jul 2013 #95

I was asking a question: where/when did GZ say his head was hit on concrete 10-30 times? Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #134

Zimmerman Claimed Martin Struck Him In The Face 25-30 Times. DallasNE Jul 2013 #154

His story was different every time he told it. reusrename Jul 2013 #109

Well, I gather from the responses to my question that GZ did not say his head was bashed Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #135

The witness who says the Martin kid was on top did NOT see any blows strike anyone. reusrename Jul 2013 #137

He wasn't injured other than the fatal shot, of course. Injured as in a fight. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #138

The problem is, nothing you are clinging to makes sense. reusrename Jul 2013 #142

GZ Weighed 204, TM weighed 158. Yes, GZ Was 3 Inches Shorter. So, Who Is Smaller? n/t DallasNE Jul 2013 #155

the person with the gun gets out of his vehicle and pursues someone with no weapon yurbud Jul 2013 #141

Two Eye Witnesses Testified It Was Zimmerman On Top And DallasNE Jul 2013 #151

Which, of course, explains their belief that it was Z who was screaming and not Martin MrScorpio Jul 2013 #5

For me it's the injuries that explain the belief that Z was screaming. dkf Jul 2013 #12

I don't understand your logic gollygee Jul 2013 #14

Zimmerman Did Not Scream, Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2013 #15

I have no experience with being beaten so honestly I do not know. dkf Jul 2013 #22

Real Fights Are Surprisingly Quiet, Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2013 #25

Disagree. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #32

You Can Fight, Sir, Or Scream: Doing Both At Once Is The Nub The Magistrate Jul 2013 #33

I agree. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #37

Just like real drownings are silent because pnwmom Jul 2013 #50

Go out for a jog and try to scream while you are running. You can't be exerting yourself Maraya1969 Jul 2013 #87

That's what you feel. Thank goodness trials are based on evidence and not feelings. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #67

That Is What Happened, Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2013 #68

What a condescending little post from a very little man, sir. Maybe some hormones... Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #136

You Crippled Back After Twenty-Four Hours With That, Ma'am? The Magistrate Jul 2013 #140

No, The Magistrate got it absolutely right, this is all about guns for you. Ikonoklast Jul 2013 #160

You mean the lack of any DNA of Z's under Martin's fingernails or on his clothes or hands? One Maraya1969 Jul 2013 #81

Not Exactly DallasNE Jul 2013 #156

Except Z didn't suffer any life threatening injuries, just a few superficial ones from the struggle MrScorpio Jul 2013 #16

You are dealing with a bunch of jurors more like me than you...ie female. dkf Jul 2013 #23

Now really, who do you think initiated contact? MrScorpio Jul 2013 #24

My gut says I don't know. dkf Jul 2013 #49

"I don't know", is I guess, the safe answer MrScorpio Jul 2013 #55

That is actually the way to get 2nd... dkf Jul 2013 #59

Well, given what you've just said about Z's apparent malignant aggression... MrScorpio Jul 2013 #61

No. I think the words attributed to TM are suspect. dkf Jul 2013 #62

What about, "You're going to die tonight" Everyone says that when they are going into Maraya1969 Jul 2013 #89

Trayvon's hands, forensically, suggest to me that he never put up a serious fight AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #58

If TM was on top of Z, how could a gun shot enter the front of TM's chest? DhhD Jul 2013 #74

One Possibility DallasNE Jul 2013 #157

But that would put the lie to Zimmerman's claim of how the attack went. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #162

As a female, and a mother, I find Skidmore Jul 2013 #42

I am suspicious of those words too. dkf Jul 2013 #53

The moral of the Zimmerman story is that Skidmore Jul 2013 #56

Sucks to be him. This certainly isn't a lesson in building a good life. dkf Jul 2013 #60

He should have never called the cops in the first place and just gone about HIS own business MrScorpio Jul 2013 #63

Ding, ding, ding.... livvy Jul 2013 #75

I wasn't impressed with the jury pool -- shallow, lacking depth, from a gun culture. pacalo Jul 2013 #43

i'm a female and i find guys who follow like zimmerman creepy , i relate with Trayvon JI7 Jul 2013 #69

I'm a woman and they look superficial to me. If your kid came home with those cuts on Maraya1969 Jul 2013 #88

sorry but you don't speak for all of us females. To me the only fact that matters is that liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #158

If it had been Zimmerman screaming, he wouldn't have abruptly stopped after the shooting. pacalo Jul 2013 #36

Are you not following the trial? brush Jul 2013 #45

Having been in, perhaps, half a dozen kerfuffles in my life, Diego_Native 2012 Jul 2013 #47

You Have Crossed Over Into Self-Parody, Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2013 #7

"I can't get into the idea that the guy without injuries was the one screaming for help". notadmblnd Jul 2013 #29

But GZ did have injuries. Bloody seemingly broken or dislodged nose, bloody spot back of head. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #65

Zimmerman FlaGranny Jul 2013 #72

I didn't get into all that. I merely pointed out...GZ was injured, TM was not. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #139

The guy with the injuries was Trevon Martin. Namely a bullet through his heart. Maraya1969 Jul 2013 #76

You are absolutely right gollygee Jul 2013 #2

Thank You! I know exactly what you are talking about.. HipChick Jul 2013 #3

I grew up on the west side Dyedinthewoolliberal Jul 2013 #6

I think you are correct. From my travels around the country, there sinkingfeeling Jul 2013 #10

I lived in Jamaica Plain my last 4 years in Boston Warpy Jul 2013 #11

"Make sure to lock your doors" is something I hear from bullwinkle428 Jul 2013 #17

Humans find such comfort in ignorance olddots Jul 2013 #18

I will bring you to today, and no I am not proud of that ex neighbor nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #19

I've seen that fear. LWolf Jul 2013 #21

wow, that's quite an experience! dionysus Jul 2013 #107

I think your experience is quite common, and that is exactly why i think hedgehog Jul 2013 #27

Without the doubt... TRoN33 Jul 2013 #28

For another point of view, I worked in a nearby city with an African American gentleman who hedgehog Jul 2013 #30

Around the same time as that sideswiping incident, I rode my bike to Eastland Mall MrScorpio Jul 2013 #34

Good post malaise Jul 2013 #35

a few online chats.. grahampuba Jul 2013 #38

"..aren't ALL young Black males just itching to attack any unsuspecting White citizen(s)..." Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #39

Clearly the media and societal and community portrayal of dark skins that does set up.... Sheepshank Jul 2013 #40

Having known a lot of racists over the years Nevernose Jul 2013 #41

That reference that I made to writing an future essay about Z... MrScorpio Jul 2013 #44

that isnt racism. its tribalism. nt galileoreloaded Jul 2013 #51

Sounds kind of like a distinction without a difference, honestly. nomorenomore08 Jul 2013 #147

+1...n/t ms liberty Jul 2013 #71

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #73

Those people who nearly side-swiped you Jamaal510 Jul 2013 #46

It really shocked me to see that level of rudeness in Detroit by those people MrScorpio Jul 2013 #48

yes, it's fear in many cases. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #52

" dazzling array of young Black males of Detroit" Stuart G Jul 2013 #54

I can relate Marrah_G Jul 2013 #57

K&R ReRe Jul 2013 #64

k&r HappyMe Jul 2013 #70

Excellent post. Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #78

Let's see.... Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #83

.. Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #92

Frank: "I am not aware we had such a thing..." Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #105

And of course none of these guys would ever have the stones to say any of this nomorenomore08 Jul 2013 #148

From Detroit, and Gratiot Avenue Faygo Kid Jul 2013 #79

I think this post is racist.... TeeYiYi Jul 2013 #80

-1 Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #84

Are you trying to be provacative? etherealtruth Jul 2013 #90

I don't like racism... TeeYiYi Jul 2013 #91

Bless your heart, you honestly have no idea, do you? etherealtruth Jul 2013 #93

Why do you hang out at CC? ... TeeYiYi Jul 2013 #96

Oh you are just darling etherealtruth Jul 2013 #98

You'll have to provide a link to the �verbatim� post... TeeYiYi Jul 2013 #100

The thing is about these guys... Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #103

Oh, I know etherealtruth Jul 2013 #106

+1 Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #108

If I had written my narrative in such a way, the way you just did, of course it would sound racist MrScorpio Jul 2013 #111

Why do you have to be so condescending? ... TeeYiYi Jul 2013 #113

What you did was re-write it in such a way to fit your own unrealistic supposition MrScorpio Jul 2013 #115

I didn't rewrite anything. They were your words. TeeYiYi Jul 2013 #116

By changing what you did, you revised the entire tenor and implications of the narrative MrScorpio Jul 2013 #118

My revision... TeeYiYi Jul 2013 #121

I was wondering how long it would take reverse-racism to show up. MrScorpio Jul 2013 #124

I'm not trying to diminish... TeeYiYi Jul 2013 #126

Well, I don't feel the same way MrScorpio Jul 2013 #127

I just don't get where you're coming from at all. Sorry. nomorenomore08 Jul 2013 #149

I have no way of knowing how old you are ...? etherealtruth Jul 2013 #123

I'm 51 myself... MrScorpio Jul 2013 #125

We both know where we have been (and exactly what is being discussed) etherealtruth Jul 2013 #128

Since I've returned to Michigan, I've been living in Macomb County MrScorpio Jul 2013 #131

Me too etherealtruth Jul 2013 #132

The funny thing is that guy never gave me the opportunity to do such a thing... MrScorpio Jul 2013 #114

Thoughtful post to try and see the justifier's point of view, but bigbrother05 Jul 2013 #82

Mr. Scorpio: Question for you about the OP Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #85

I really wasn't angry MrScorpio Jul 2013 #117

Thank you. Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #119

Your story was re-posted on ConservativeCave.com Courtesy Flush Jul 2013 #86

Gee. Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #94

Yawn. nt MrScorpio Jul 2013 #97

Like most racists they pretend white people do not treestar Jul 2013 #102

I really don't have any interest in the opinions of racist trolls MrScorpio Jul 2013 #120

Doesn't it drive you nuts that you can't talk common sense into people like that, Mr. Scorpio? MrMickeysMom Jul 2013 #99

and to me that's ignorance gopiscrap Jul 2013 #101

I scare people. I'm white 6'0 185 lb bearded and don't smile much TrogL Jul 2013 #104

Hello Steviehh Jul 2013 #110

Thanks, Bro MrScorpio Jul 2013 #122

Fear, yes I raise my hands up to it. mwooldri Jul 2013 #112

If the OP is suggesting zeeland Jul 2013 #129

Given Zimmerman's history of aggressive behavior - domestic violence, assaulting a cop - nomorenomore08 Jul 2013 #150

The fault is in their minds, their upbringing and their culture. NOT YOUR SKIN COLOUR! TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #130

Excellent points, all. IrishAyes Jul 2013 #133

Got Attitude? gussmith Jul 2013 #143

you forgot the part where his first reaction was to see if THEY were okay? of course you did. bettyellen Jul 2013 #144

A helpful piece of advice for you since you haven't been posting a lot MrScorpio Jul 2013 #145

great post heaven05 Jul 2013 #146

I just had a co-worker say to me hfojvt Jul 2013 #152

Well, at least they gave you the common courtesy of actually talking to you, did they not? MrScorpio Jul 2013 #153

I don't know about racist but GZ is creepy ass coward. For sure! Jasana Jul 2013 #159

I've thought about your post all weekend. mountain grammy Jul 2013 #161