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A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)

121. I guess I'm one of the ilk you apparently find disgusting. I like that stand your ground

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 03:53 PM

Jul 2013

and fight it out on the facts part though. Great idea! Too bad it's too late for President Obama to do that as part of his most transparent President campaign. He could have kept the leak to a minimum and looked like a hero at the same time.

All he had to do early on was offer Snowden amnesty for not releasing any more information. In exchange he could have offered a promise for a national discussion on the programs in place and why they were needed. Place all of the facts safe for public consumption on the table and let the nation have a discussion about the need for security vs the need for privacy. Perhaps alternatives could have been found that would provide both at the same time.

A President that wasn't so busy playing multidimensional chess may have thought of that. Then again maybe as a constitutional scholar he was afraid the laws constitutionality would be brought into question.

We do now know one thing, the information Snowden has released has done far less damage than the administrations reaction to the release. The administration is doing far more damage to the US reputation than Snowden has.

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I am getting the odd sense that some don't like Snowden because he made the establishment look bad [View all] The Straight Story Jul 2013 OP

Perhaps instead of trying to make up something about why those opposed to Snowden feel that way.... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #1

I tried, but there is never any audio, just a bunch of text The Straight Story Jul 2013 #2

Smart ass answer. You know exactly what the poster was asking for. bluestate10 Jul 2013 #27

Heh. Ilk. Nice use of the word. The Straight Story Jul 2013 #36

"Bet if Romney was in you wouldn't be so passive about it." tex-wyo-dem Jul 2013 #68

Romney is not in, Obama is, and he is the most honest politician in modern history. tridim Jul 2013 #152

You're joking right? raindaddy Jul 2013 #154

You know we will have shitty presidents after Obama, right? The precedents the good ones make Ed Suspicious Jul 2013 #157

This is a war between the 1% and the 99%. Which side do you choose? You wont say will you? nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #43

No they won't warrant46 Jul 2013 #95

"fast and loose with the truth" Jakes Progress Jul 2013 #71

Nixon Lied....Kennedy Lied VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #155

Never said that I did. Jakes Progress Jul 2013 #172

I guess I'm one of the ilk you apparently find disgusting. I like that stand your ground A Simple Game Jul 2013 #121

you could enlighten us. nashville_brook Jul 2013 #5

That would involve an honest discussion rather than an CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #18

It comes down to how much you value democracy, representative government. I value it greatly. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #72

Beautifully stated! TM99 Jul 2013 #84

Thank you. We freedom-lovers have to stick together. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #85

We do, even when called 'libertarians'. TM99 Jul 2013 #87

Many thanks... I agree with you entirely. nenagh Jul 2013 #86

Well, this was more subtly stated than the usual CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #93

The M$M would sooner be bastinadoed than talk about policy, particularly in respect to surveillance Fumesucker Jul 2013 #94

Bingo malokvale77 Jul 2013 #104

The law LiberalLovinLug Jul 2013 #116

As I see it, Booz Allen and the government stole our information. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #130

yes marions ghost Jul 2013 #146

Bravo! kentuck Jul 2013 #96

Don't even wonder about this Aerows Jul 2013 #97

Thanks. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #106

In the not to distant past government employees... Blanks Jul 2013 #117

The government did not track our mail until recently. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #136

simplistic thinking marions ghost Jul 2013 #147

That's sure to be it. Blanks Jul 2013 #160

No need marions ghost Jul 2013 #171

Who are the Kardashians? Blanks Jul 2013 #174

Trust me--this is an everyday issue marions ghost Jul 2013 #175

I appreciate your reasoned response, but... Blanks Jul 2013 #176

OK I get it... marions ghost Jul 2013 #177

100% right on! Beautifully said. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #126

JDPriestly lordsummerisle Jul 2013 #143

+1 (nt) Kurovski Jul 2013 #165

"Because if he can be exempt, why should ANYONE be held to account for their crimes?" rhett o rick Jul 2013 #105

More of the attempted condescension CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #167

I know of lot's of bankers that broke the law in a much more serious xtraxritical Jul 2013 #118

LOL yep we bail out the criminal banksters but Snowden gets nothing. There's no real justice anymore L0oniX Jul 2013 #120

Agreed. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #137

upside down cake fascisthunter Jul 2013 #149

lol... we have fascisthunter Jul 2013 #148

nah, just drones. nt galileoreloaded Jul 2013 #3

Thats pretty much it. HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #4

So more putting words in their mouth? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #6

Obama kardonb Jul 2013 #51

fuel gauges don't register when no fuel. HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #57

The plane had to land because of a problem with the fuel gauge indicator JDPriestly Jul 2013 #80

Our government should eat humble pie and apologize. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #127

Yes. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #138

Actually, information access *should* be asymmetrical. woo me with science Jul 2013 #7

Indeed. But I don't think they believe we employ them but the other way around The Straight Story Jul 2013 #9

OK. Then, when we have another Oklahoma City or 9/11, and believe me, we will if your bluestate10 Jul 2013 #21

Or another Bosten bombing? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #30

Death by terrorist is statistically zero compared to other causes of death. Yet rhett o rick Jul 2013 #45

"If people are so afraid of dying, they'd be better off chasing down drunk drivers"... Kurovski Jul 2013 #166

We'll have another Oklahoma City or 9/11 whether or not we live in a security state. winter is coming Jul 2013 #33

+1,000 n/t Lugnut Jul 2013 #55

You put STFU in your post (on DU of all places) go west young man Jul 2013 #46

They said "please". Enthusiast Jul 2013 #131

TERRA! woo me with science Jul 2013 #50

Why do you worry about these singular events when a MILLION Americans die mbperrin Jul 2013 #63

+1000! tex-wyo-dem Jul 2013 #78

Yes, and that's why single payer universal is STILL my top priority! mbperrin Jul 2013 #103

There are too many factions profiteering on our health care. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #133

If you want safety, buy a house on a big lot and build a bunker on your property. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #75

So, you would have no problem explaining how this would have stopped either Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #90

Frankly, I don't give a fuck. Those events happened even with government invasion of privacy. JVS Jul 2013 #92

I'll take 'What a scaremonger would say' for $50 bobduca Jul 2013 #110

Careful ...I hear Conda Sleeza Rice is roaming around on DU. L0oniX Jul 2013 #125

Except that all this spying has not stopped ANYTHING. alarimer Jul 2013 #123

I hear there's a possible mushroom cloud if we don't go to war right now. L0oniX Jul 2013 #124

Bush had plenty of information to stop 9/11. It could have been prevented. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #140

I agree. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #139

When people start demonizing the Bolivian president, not for anything he actually did, but Marr Jul 2013 #8

If these are truly Democrats that are saying that, then it shows that... AZ Progressive Jul 2013 #10

His story stinks, jazzimov Jul 2013 #15

You won't make any statements, but Morales is a liar DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #25

For his story not to be true it would have to be a stream of lucky go west young man Jul 2013 #49

We'll roll us a fattie. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #135

Any theory contradicting his story rapidly descends into obviously farcical nonsense. sibelian Jul 2013 #91

What Morales said agrees with what the Austrian and French sources say. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #141

I am truly sorry that you are getting that sense, jazzimov Jul 2013 #11

Nice try on that last part The Straight Story Jul 2013 #17

I'm more concerned about what Obama admitted to than what is in the documents. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #156

He makes the people look powerful... kentuck Jul 2013 #12

I think that's totally it Hydra Jul 2013 #13

Pretty much. To some, Obama is their personal hero LittleBlue Jul 2013 #14

I don't like Snowden because he is a coward and a traitor. No one else, in the history bluestate10 Jul 2013 #16

Given we have tortured people and put them in jails without charges and keep them there The Straight Story Jul 2013 #19

You tell it just the way it is...we are not the same movonne Jul 2013 #47

Thank you for saying it well. mbperrin Jul 2013 #64

Some might define coward as someone who targets civillians with drones. HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #59

Mark Felt hid for over 30 years before he was revealed as Deep Throat muriel_volestrangler Jul 2013 #99

Apparently you've never heard of ... GeorgeGist Jul 2013 #132

Snowden took aim at President Obama on the international scene hardcover Jul 2013 #20

you think leaking info to the Chinese & Russians is "making the establishment look bad"? LOL! KittyWampus Jul 2013 #22

Most emphatically, yes. n/t DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #28

Keep waving that flag blindly. We didn't use to do so in last admin The Straight Story Jul 2013 #31

It's disingenious anyway, as he has not exclusively shared anything with the chinese or russian gov. Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #89

he looks bad because he is being used as a doormat Blue_Roses Jul 2013 #23

That may be true for some folks, but mostly likely in my mind is ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #24

It's just the same sort of blind partisanship you see from Sean Hannity or some other Fox News type. Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #26

it will self-correct in 2016 Skittles Jul 2013 #48

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #29

Snowden is a coward. ProSense Jul 2013 #32

The government should let it go noise Jul 2013 #37

Not likely. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #40

No, a coward is someone who kills kids using drones from thousands of miles away The Straight Story Jul 2013 #38

How about ProSense Jul 2013 #42

If you are bombing people not a threat to you. Yes. They call it something else when citizens do it The Straight Story Jul 2013 #44

Song for you courtesy of Roger Waters. "The Bravery Of Being Out Of Range" go west young man Jul 2013 #53

Others might call that state-sponsored terrorism. nt HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #60

... Apophis Jul 2013 #65

Strange definition of "coward" LiberalLovinLug Jul 2013 #128

Is calling Snowden a coward just another psy-ops technique? JDPriestly Jul 2013 #161

+ Democracy Octafish Jul 2013 #173

Makes sense to me... fadedrose Jul 2013 #179

Wide scale surveillance noise Jul 2013 #34

You got it right nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #35

Oooof. "The Establishment" alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #39

What's wrong with "The Establishment"? Yes, it's somewhat outdated but the Cleita Jul 2013 #56

Thank you for putting it into words, The Straight Story. Octafish Jul 2013 #41

speaking of security agencies.money and bodies questionseverything Jul 2013 #81

end game questionseverything Jul 2013 #82

oh for sure, that's what's so creepy about. allin99 Jul 2013 #52

. blkmusclmachine Jul 2013 #54

I don't like him because he has been actively interfering in foreign diplomacy pnwmom Jul 2013 #58

What diplomacy? mbperrin Jul 2013 #69

He shared documents about our spying on China when Obama was meeting with pnwmom Jul 2013 #70

Okay, so the Chinese and the Russians had NO idea that we were spying on them before Snowden, yet mbperrin Jul 2013 #102

Are you kidding me? The American people didn't know that we spy on China and Russia pnwmom Jul 2013 #162

A 29 year old low level civilian contractor can access all that info mbperrin Jul 2013 #163

He wasn't low level. He had high levels of access in his last position pnwmom Jul 2013 #164

He's a 29 year old employee working for a private firm for a short time. mbperrin Jul 2013 #170

I'd imagine a lot less outrage here if Romney had won the election. nt Incitatus Jul 2013 #61

Trust them....sure. ohheckyeah Jul 2013 #62

ding, ding, ding. . .the peon made the nobles looks like shit. Nobles want blood Nanjing to Seoul Jul 2013 #66

Ya think? Th1onein Jul 2013 #67

This is an excellent OP. Uncle Joe Jul 2013 #73

From an objective non-ideological PoV, who is Snowden actually helping? struggle4progress Jul 2013 #74

This message was self-deleted by its author blue cat Jul 2013 #76

Many HATE him because he is a TRAITOR! Lady Freedom Returns Jul 2013 #77

You are assuming he has given secrets to foreign powers muriel_volestrangler Jul 2013 #100

Bush & Cheney = much bigger fish ...peep ...pin drops L0oniX Jul 2013 #119

K&R DeSwiss Jul 2013 #79

He doesn't seem to care about consequences. And with the responsibility he had, that should be SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2013 #83

What specific things has he said that you regard as treasonous? (nt) muriel_volestrangler Jul 2013 #101

"Our" establishment, not "the". Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #88

+ 100 - Well Said cantbeserious Jul 2013 #98

Ha who knew felix_numinous Jul 2013 #107

I am getting the odd sense that you hit the nail on the head. Autumn Jul 2013 #108

I don't like Snowden because he is a far right wing hypocrite. phleshdef Jul 2013 #109

So you're ok with NSA spying on us, but are only mad because the public exposure of it makes Obama rusty fender Jul 2013 #112

Wow, the illiteracy is strong with this one ^ phleshdef Jul 2013 #113

Illiteracy? Really? rusty fender Jul 2013 #114

Oh my, grahamar air ers!!!! phleshdef Jul 2013 #115

TPTB have now become the overly jealous, domineering, controlling lover. Jamastiene Jul 2013 #111

Yes, because they are "our" leaders. alarimer Jul 2013 #122

Gettin' there, are ya? Iggo Jul 2013 #129

Maybe because Snowden violated laws in a nation of laws Progressive dog Jul 2013 #134

Funny Thing Those Laws - Seems They Don't Apply To The 1% - But Do For The 99% cantbeserious Jul 2013 #144

Perfect reply! fascisthunter Jul 2013 #150

You are off topic and wrong, the USA has special prisons for the wealthy Progressive dog Jul 2013 #168

Thanks For The Scolding - I Needed That - We Will Have To Agree To Disagree cantbeserious Jul 2013 #169

That's not the reason I don't like Snowden. classof56 Jul 2013 #142

Obama was better . . . another_liberal Jul 2013 #145

Easy Rex Jul 2013 #151

I'm getting the not-so-odd sense Summer Hathaway Jul 2013 #153

Could be Summer.. who knows what produces these "odd feelings" Cha Jul 2013 #159

I think Snowden is the one who makes himself look bad. So you Cha Jul 2013 #158

Then that tells me that you don't understand the issue at all jazzimov Jul 2013 #178