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mattclearing

(10,091 posts)
130. Stealing from thieves is a moral grey area.
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 09:22 PM
Jul 2013

It wasn't the NSA's info to begin with.

Personally, I think Obama has tried to be hawkish across the board to avoid being out-hawked by Republicans and he has effectively countered the narrative that Dems are weak on Defense.

That's a double-edged sword, unfortunately, because he has also willingly supported Bush programs that are unbecoming a transparency-minded Democrat.

I'm reluctant to pass judgment on Snowden or Obama in this case...it's still a bit early to tell.

Snowden seems to have taken more care in his release of documents than Manning did, and I won't condemn him for weaseling his way into a position where he could make the most impact.

I don't like that he's a libertarian Paul supporter, but then Obama is fairly embarrassing on Wall Street and other issues.

No tears for the eavesdroppers.

Explains "Obama's involvement"? Where does that knowledge-based conclusion come from? randome Jul 2013 #1
Anyone? Is this thing on? randome Jul 2013 #11
Tune in to BTB--the "Blame the Brother" channel.... MADem Jul 2013 #103
Is that an actual thing? randome Jul 2013 #116
It might as well be! MADem Jul 2013 #127
That's a cheap shot pscot Jul 2013 #125
I call 'em as I see 'em. MADem Jul 2013 #126
Stealing from thieves is a moral grey area. mattclearing Jul 2013 #130
And which court has ruled that it wasn't their info? MADem Jul 2013 #136
What are you talking about? mattclearing Jul 2013 #138
Maybe you want to go back and get the full sense of the thread. nt MADem Jul 2013 #139
I was speaking generally. mattclearing Jul 2013 #148
Well...I was responding to your explicit assertion that the information did not belong to NSA. MADem Jul 2013 #149
I didn't accept your premise. mattclearing Jul 2013 #150
I am not a member of the Supreme Court. MADem Jul 2013 #151
I never said the law was unconstitutional. mattclearing Jul 2013 #152
Well, the courts are going to decide and that decision will stick MADem Jul 2013 #158
Don't ask, I have read the thread and have no idea what s/he is talking about either, but sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #156
True. mattclearing Jul 2013 #157
Nice thoughtful post. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #161
Thanks. mattclearing Jul 2013 #174
You don't think there'd be some role reversal pscot Jul 2013 #132
That's essentially what I said. MADem Jul 2013 #134
Obama is the Head of State of the United States of America RC Jul 2013 #22
Perhaps because the NSA is adhering to the law and restrictions? randome Jul 2013 #42
And I will continue to to maintain they are in violation of the 4th, among other Amendments RC Jul 2013 #50
+1 silvershadow Jul 2013 #66
The Supreme Court is the final arbiter on issues of constitutionality. MADem Jul 2013 #143
And you don't see a problem with the FISA court being appointed by Roberts? RC Jul 2013 #146
That does not make anything illegal Progressive dog Jul 2013 #167
Just because it is "legal", you approve? RC Jul 2013 #168
No I do not approve of what Snowden, Greenwald Progressive dog Jul 2013 #169
I was talking about our government. RC Jul 2013 #170
I wasn't talking about our government, I was Progressive dog Jul 2013 #171
I'll stop wasting my time here. RC Jul 2013 #172
Coming totalitarianism Progressive dog Jul 2013 #173
They are a rogue agency because they are operating outside the Constitution. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #67
It is simple enough. But the courts interpret the Constitution. randome Jul 2013 #72
The courts have not yet decided a case involving this massive collection of metadata. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #78
And if it is changed, I'm good with it. randome Jul 2013 #81
Sorry. I should have read the rest of the posts. Please disregard think Jul 2013 #131
I must say, that IS good timing! dixiegrrrrl Jul 2013 #2
I don't get this. Collecting data on that many countries and Autumn Jul 2013 #3
They are looking for resistance to the neo liberal order nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #6
Correct, Nadin... This can't possibly be about terrorism. My pick is, as you've said, "resistance to truth2power Jul 2013 #166
NSA does a lot more than look for terrorists. randome Jul 2013 #7
I wonder if there have been any success stories on catching Autumn Jul 2013 #12
You wont' bother to look because in your narrative the USA is only evil flamingdem Jul 2013 #13
Well that's your opinion. Try reading. I never said Autumn Jul 2013 #18
Bush had the same tools at his command. Including the metadata. randome Jul 2013 #21
That's one of the things we should get regular reports about. randome Jul 2013 #15
I agree with you on that. Autumn Jul 2013 #19
And Wall Street fraudsters®..................nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #162
To give inside info to their corporate masters The Straight Story Jul 2013 #9
Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but it seems pretty obvious to me that you're right.... nt RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #26
I tend to think you are right. Autumn Jul 2013 #140
What Nadin and StraightStory said + industrial espionage, intellectual property theft Catherina Jul 2013 #10
+100000 woo me with science Jul 2013 #16
The possibilities for blackmail are endless. xtraxritical Jul 2013 #47
Insufficient checks and balances......nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #163
Right. Autumn Jul 2013 #142
Yes, exactly -- I become more convinced of this every day magellan Jul 2013 #159
The big picture............nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #164
"All this can't be just looking for terrorists," dixiegrrrrl Jul 2013 #28
The terrorists that they fear and can't control. Autumn Jul 2013 #141
You got it. dixiegrrrrl Jul 2013 #144
The NSA doesn't only cover terrorism. Life Long Dem Jul 2013 #31
I can understand the cyberwarfare part to protect Americans Autumn Jul 2013 #48
Once again, I'm betting the Brazilian government already knows this. stevenleser Jul 2013 #4
Hey! Wanna talk about national security surveillance, the Fourth Amendment, and SPECIFICITY? cherokeeprogressive Jul 2013 #20
Thats ALL we've been talking about VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #29
The OP's not about any of that. It's about the US spying on Brazil. n/t pnwmom Jul 2013 #155
Sorry ignored, I cannot read your response. nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #24
LOL. wow. nt RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #27
Not that big of a deal really. I'm sure a lot of ignore list additions have happened in the last stevenleser Jul 2013 #41
Had a boss that ignored everyone but his yes men. nineteen50 Jul 2013 #56
plenty of feedback for these folks in their echo chamber frylock Jul 2013 #68
LOL, see my #85, I don't ignore people who have real arguments to make. nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #88
See my #85. I dont ignore people who actually have real arguments to make. nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #86
Who decides if it is real or not? nineteen50 Jul 2013 #91
Their arguments decide. Do they have facts or are they emoting? How do they react when stevenleser Jul 2013 #92
I get frustrated at times but eventually the right argument finds its way nineteen50 Jul 2013 #100
Well, let's look at an example. stevenleser Jul 2013 #108
It is so much better to just let people expose their stupidity nineteen50 Jul 2013 #111
Well, you can see their continued responses below. They're doubling down. stevenleser Jul 2013 #113
And of all people to dump on, at least you are trying to make a difference. randome Jul 2013 #117
Like you ever listen to anyone... 99Forever Jul 2013 #84
Unlike you, I have proof when I say something. I can easily disprove what you just said. stevenleser Jul 2013 #85
Bullshit. 99Forever Jul 2013 #87
Too late, the proof of how you operate is there for everyone to see. nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #89
Bullshit. 99Forever Jul 2013 #90
LMAO! stevenleser Jul 2013 #93
It has been said... 99Forever Jul 2013 #95
I did not know that. But I am not surprised that you do. nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #97
Clearly, there are an infinite number... 99Forever Jul 2013 #99
Plus he can never engage with any facts or actually debate Rex Jul 2013 #102
LOL, you know the rules! Make that accusation, get a video! stevenleser Jul 2013 #118
'I've only added people who refuse to engage on the facts.' Rex Jul 2013 #101
I know, I find it funny that so many refuse to engage on the facts too!!!! LMAO!!!!! stevenleser Jul 2013 #105
I found that whole post to be somewhat ironic.. RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #135
I just might make that my sig line... dixiegrrrrl Jul 2013 #30
LOL cherokeeprogressive Jul 2013 #32
I would be very interested in Snowden's "dump" on Venezuela flamingdem Jul 2013 #37
Uhh...no thanks. I have little interest in looking at someone else's dump. randome Jul 2013 #43
ha ha that word has a schtink to it! flamingdem Jul 2013 #44
"Oh, look! It's the hilarmoose!" randome Jul 2013 #69
Ist dat die Schwiss food? flamingdem Jul 2013 #124
Thats what you all have been saying sikofit3 Jul 2013 #57
Of course, but now the Brazilian people know, too usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #60
So nebenaube Jul 2013 #5
Greenwald lives in Brazil....Brazilian companies in partnership..this is why it is a trap HipChick Jul 2013 #8
Not sure I understand flamingdem Jul 2013 #14
Don't go, Eddie! randome Jul 2013 #17
Eduardo cuidado es una trampa! flamingdem Jul 2013 #23
Good old Admiral Ackbar. His one great line. longship Jul 2013 #185
Damn you, Catherina, you just sent the Snowden-bashers back to the drawing board! backscatter712 Jul 2013 #25
It doesn't take as long as you think. randome Jul 2013 #38
Take me to your leader. nt Zorra Jul 2013 #65
I can't tell lol. Can't see them. And it's a long weekend too! Catherina Jul 2013 #74
Screw Brazil, I want to hear about the NSA and CARLOS SLIM! kenny blankenship Jul 2013 #33
One hopes the USA knows whatthehell is going on in Mexico flamingdem Jul 2013 #35
I have to disagree Rstrstx Jul 2013 #122
Thanks, it sounds like you're living this story flamingdem Jul 2013 #123
Maybe in the interior of Mexico, but not here on the border Rstrstx Jul 2013 #154
You can bet on it. nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #39
that was an amusingly well written post. I commend you! KittyWampus Jul 2013 #128
The Brazilians hate us for our freedom?..democracy?...privacy?...well, something. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2013 #34
But they love our war on drugs nineteen50 Jul 2013 #63
Just a side bet..... wandy Jul 2013 #36
"Is this another corporate war that we are looking at here?" HiPointDem Jul 2013 #40
Any proof Greenwald and or Snowden are not just making shit up? krawhitham Jul 2013 #45
the proof is in watching neo-liberals shitting their pants over these disclosures frylock Jul 2013 #70
Yes it is very funny watching them flop all over themselves Rex Jul 2013 #106
The link just leads to a news article -- there are no new Snowden documents published FarCenter Jul 2013 #46
But it MIGHT be damaging to Obama! That's the point! randome Jul 2013 #53
Correct.... jaysunb Jul 2013 #62
Thank You For Your Efforts cantbeserious Jul 2013 #49
You're welcome Catherina Jul 2013 #75
Back in 2008, Greenwald refused to believe Al Giordano about all this Denzil_DC Jul 2013 #51
Very interesting. randome Jul 2013 #54
I have my asbestos underoos on! Denzil_DC Jul 2013 #55
So in eight years. Savannahmann Jul 2013 #58
"looking for proof other than wild accusations" Denzil_DC Jul 2013 #64
You don't know that Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #80
By the same token, you can't prove that he followed it up. Denzil_DC Jul 2013 #110
Which is why I wrote, "or not" Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #119
"Neither of us knows one way or another" Denzil_DC Jul 2013 #121
Just learned something. Interesting. Thanks KittyWampus Jul 2013 #129
Holy moly. How very, very innnnnnteresting. Number23 Jul 2013 #137
American Telecommunications/Internet companies are not dead. bigbadR Jul 2013 #52
Everything that is not encrypted by systems under your organization's control is assumed insecure FarCenter Jul 2013 #61
Is there a link to the NSA documents? bunnies Jul 2013 #59
A new report states that the Feds scan all mail as it travels thru the Post Office. blkmusclmachine Jul 2013 #71
It helped them locate the ricin and asbestos mailers. randome Jul 2013 #76
Your efforts to engage on this ... JoePhilly Jul 2013 #109
Thanks. randome Jul 2013 #115
Doesn't Greenwald work for the Guardian? Raine1967 Jul 2013 #73
He writes for several publications Catherina Jul 2013 #77
I'm not trying to be obtuse here; I'm going to ask again: What information is new? Raine1967 Jul 2013 #82
This article is in Portuguese, in a Brazilian paper, for a Brazilian Audience Catherina Jul 2013 #94
Thank you. Raine1967 Jul 2013 #104
I'll bear your helpful comments in mind for the next title :) n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #107
Huh? Raine1967 Jul 2013 #112
? Catherina Jul 2013 #145
This is still not proof. wtmusic Jul 2013 #79
Lol! Catherina Jul 2013 #83
Everyone every where should realize Big Brother is just trying to keep us and all indepat Jul 2013 #96
As Bill Hicks would have said, "Go back to bed, America!" backscatter712 Jul 2013 #98
Bill Hicks said it so much better than I. We should all go back to our mundane existences, sousing indepat Jul 2013 #120
Oh brother... MILLIONS of Brazillian emails??? Kahuna Jul 2013 #114
Unfortunately it highly likely is true Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #133
No, it was brazillions Fumesucker Jul 2013 #147
So? Our spying agency is spying on Brazil, and has been doing so for THREE DECADES. pnwmom Jul 2013 #153
k&r for exposure. n/t Laelth Jul 2013 #160
I think we are seeing something historical here suffragette Jul 2013 #165
Yes! n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #178
K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #175
Millions of Brazilians Quantess Jul 2013 #176
Brazil requests clarification from the US.... allin99 Jul 2013 #177
Thanks you! Was just coming to post something similar n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #179
Brazil wants answers on US surveillance |US complains Snowden messed up "the importance of trust". Catherina Jul 2013 #180
omg, lol @ "the importance of trust", lmao!!!.... allin99 Jul 2013 #181
I know! Do these people even hear themselves lol? n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #182
double speak in effect, kinda like: no wheeling and dealing... allin99 Jul 2013 #183
Updated OP with graphics. Thanks Cleita! n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #184
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