You cannot initiate the confrontation, start getting your ass kicked, and then decide to shoot.....

[sir pball]

39. DTR and "reasonable" are generally unrelated.

New York has Duty To Retreat and their standard for lethal force is still "reasonable man*". SYG isn't actually a particularly new concept; when I got my first CCW in CT in 2001 the classroom instruction covered this - even then, quite a few states didn't codify DTR, and it was generally assumed that if you resorted to lethal force, the "reasonable man*" test already covered it. In other words - shoot if you have to, it's sensible and reasonable. Hell, California has had Castle Doctrine and SYG for forever. PA has SYG in 2003 when I got my permit there.

The problem (as I understand, I haven't taken a class nor studied the law) with Florida particularly is that their self-defense laws say that if the situation prima facie is legal SD, law enforcement is barred from investigating. THAT is stupid and reckless to the nth degree...any "good shoot" should be investigated thoroughly. If I ever had to take a life in defense, be it with a gun, a knife, or my hands, I would both expect and be willing to have a grand jury review my actions.

* - "Reasonable Man Standard" is a very old, established legal construct.

Immediate edit - I realized as I was hitting "post" that there are a LOT of fuckfaces out there who don't think like me, who don't regard force as a last resort. A lot of dickfaces go out looking for fights looking to shoot (like I think Zimmy was), and that should probably be codified in the law. Not like FL, or even PA, which say respectively "You can start a fight but if you reasonably feel in danger of your life you can kill" and "You can start a fight as long as you don't intend on using lethal force" - there should be strong legal language to the effect of "If you carry, you better damned well do your best to avoid ANY fight". God knows, I've let people cut me in line, apologized for bumping into them, even moved my car once, because I was carrying and de-escalating is always foremost in my mind when I am.