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pnwmom

(110,261 posts)

195. Collecting telephone metadata has already been ruled by the Supreme Court

Sun Jul 7, 2013, 12:48 AM

Jul 2013

as compliant with the 4th amendment, decades ago.

Maybe some other Supreme Court will agree with you, but it hasn't happened yet.

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How can Snowden be a traitor if the NSA program is a figment of his imagination? [View all] Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 OP

Because he also gave intelligence secrets to China by having them published. randome Jul 2013 #1

Oh please. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #4

He broke his oath. Is that good enough? randome Jul 2013 #5

What else do you have? Scootaloo Jul 2013 #7

Obviously since that shoe-horns nicely with choosing to believe what Snowden says. randome Jul 2013 #9

So if he made it up, then nothing at all was violated. Scootaloo Jul 2013 #20

I guess you can take my word that I don't hate Snowden or you. randome Jul 2013 #24

I don't care if you do or don't Scootaloo Jul 2013 #33

All of his claims about NSA spying have no evidence to back them up. randome Jul 2013 #35

lolz,. the light is both on AND off,. hilarious. Civilization2 Jul 2013 #113

They have the power now to ruin anyone who causes trouble siligut Jul 2013 #186

If Snowden fabricated tales about a non-existent program then he broke no oath. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #13

Not everything about this is simple. randome Jul 2013 #17

But they're just PowerPoint slides which are no proof of anything. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #19

And it was probably unnecessary to label them 'Top Secret', too. randome Jul 2013 #22

So, suddenly, there's proof even though you've been saying there's no proof. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #25

No proof of his outrageous claims. But solid intelligence info given to the Chinese. randome Jul 2013 #31

So everything that supports your claim is true but anything else is not. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #39

It's difficult to be 100% objective on anything. randome Jul 2013 #45

Yeah, and it also means Snowden may have been justified in breaking his oath freedom fighter jh Jul 2013 #28

Then He Should Gladly Come Back To The U.S.... KharmaTrain Jul 2013 #77

An open forum like Bradley Manning's? freedom fighter jh Jul 2013 #84

He's Not Mannng... KharmaTrain Jul 2013 #92

How is running to a third world country *supposed* to protect the Constitution? freedom fighter jh Jul 2013 #97

Stay On Snowden... KharmaTrain Jul 2013 #101

NSA is violating the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution all day every day. freedom fighter jh Jul 2013 #146

I Don't Care Either... KharmaTrain Jul 2013 #150

Agreed. The conversation needs to happen and it will. randome Jul 2013 #151

You forgot something: "I am not here to hide from justice." randome Jul 2013 #98

I Guess Hiding Makes It More True... KharmaTrain Jul 2013 #128

You conveniently forget (or choose to ignore) Jose Padilla, also an HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #126

Because... KharmaTrain Jul 2013 #134

Padilla and Snowden are both American citizens. Padilla was denied due process and tortured HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #141

You're right, Padilla was treated terribly. By Bush. randome Jul 2013 #144

On the contrary, it has everything to do with why Snowden should HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #147

Well, Snowden didn't really 'contribute' anything. randome Jul 2013 #148

Right, Snowden didn't contribute anything, other than to supply proof HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #152

You don't hear much about that from Congress, though. randome Jul 2013 #156

There's the Congress you have and the Congress you'd like to have. (Now why am I HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #160

But you're right about that. freedom fighter jh Jul 2013 #169

And the Supreme Court made a ruling on that case treestar Jul 2013 #176

And get the treatment Bradley Manning got, right? Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #85

Military Vs. Civilian... KharmaTrain Jul 2013 #89

Yes, I am sure that will make such a difference. Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #99

What happened to Manning was ruled 'excessive' by the judge in the case. randome Jul 2013 #100

Again, your wearing rose colored glasses, if you believe he would be Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #103

It's a simple case of espionage. Others are prosecuted for similar charges. randome Jul 2013 #106

No. It's not espionage. Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #108

Fine. Then he has nothing to worry about and should come home. randome Jul 2013 #110

Circular logic. Right, come home so he can get tortured. Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #119

Obviously he faces charges. Maybe it's not espionage according to your definition. randome Jul 2013 #120

The Altemeyer Authoritarian Test Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #124

It still comes down to basic facts. randome Jul 2013 #127

Make up your mind Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #138

He didn't 'claim' anything about our international hacking processes. randome Jul 2013 #142

Banana Republics always generate trumped up charges against enemies of the state Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #125

Some 'enemy'. If this is what 'enemies of the state' have devolved into... randome Jul 2013 #129

I like how you insert "hero" into someone who is simply a whistle blower Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #135

This ^^^^ treestar Jul 2013 #178

Would you side with the Mafia against a "squealer", "rat", "stool pigeon", etc? Towlie Jul 2013 #43

Because he 'revealed' metadata storage? randome Jul 2013 #44

do employees of outside contractors even take an "oath"? SwampG8r Jul 2013 #91

That's a good point. I'm sure they do but I don't know precisely. randome Jul 2013 #94

i would be SwampG8r Jul 2013 #107

Even if they don't . . . freedom fighter jh Jul 2013 #170

he was not a federal worker SwampG8r Jul 2013 #193

You mean like the oaths those in government constantly break -- to us? villager Jul 2013 #177

Show evidence that they are not defending the Constitution. randome Jul 2013 #180

Ah, so as long as it's been "ruled" -- a la Dred Scott -- we underlings dare not question villager Jul 2013 #183

Question it all you want. Change it. It's all the same to me. randome Jul 2013 #188

Actually, until we see those too-secret-for-our-own-good FISA court rulings villager Jul 2013 #190

More transparency, less secrecy. We all agree on that. randome Jul 2013 #191

Indeed we do! villager Jul 2013 #192

None of them hacked into US computers, downloaded classified documents, pnwmom Jul 2013 #57

Snowden didn't share information with Chinese or Russian leaders Maedhros Jul 2013 #112

If he had written it on a men's room stall... randome Jul 2013 #114

Then there's no reason to misrepresent what he did. [n/t] Maedhros Jul 2013 #171

The Chinese leaders could actually read about the documents in the Chinese newspapers. pnwmom Jul 2013 #194

There is a distinct difference in the traditional application of the law Maedhros Jul 2013 #196

Not when they give US classified documents to the newspapers of a foreign power. pnwmom Jul 2013 #197

So naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #6

Ellsberg had evidence, the Pentagon Papers. Snowden has PowerPoint slides. randome Jul 2013 #8

so? naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #10

And it is always worth violating an oath or refusing unlawful orders... randome Jul 2013 #14

Evidently Ellsberg himself disagrees with you Fumesucker Jul 2013 #11

And I disagree with Ellsberg. randome Jul 2013 #16

You know who else had an opinion? Fumesucker Jul 2013 #37

OOOO Oo oo oo ! that's CHEATING! sibelian Jul 2013 #47

Daniel Ellsberg is senile. n/t QC Jul 2013 #73

If Ellsberg hadn't released the PP, we could have HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #130

Published where? No newspaper has this. . .nothing on the internet. Hell, Nanjing to Seoul Jul 2013 #46

Here is the link to IP address info. randome Jul 2013 #50

But if it's a legal, open program that it is sanctioned by law under the Patriot Act, what's the Nanjing to Seoul Jul 2013 #56

But it's Congress's job to sell those secrets! nt valerief Jul 2013 #75

I'd bet your telecom company does more selling than the NSA. randome Jul 2013 #79

Then why haven't we filed charges against the Weekly World News? Savannahmann Jul 2013 #93

Telling lies is not treason, although it's definitely grounds for dismissal. randome Jul 2013 #96

But the programs have been denounced here as lies Savannahmann Jul 2013 #102

Read other posts in this thread. randome Jul 2013 #104

Baloney Savannahmann Jul 2013 #105

I'm not trying to 'have' anything both ways. This is what he did. randome Jul 2013 #109

Put up or shut up! TM99 Jul 2013 #159

PRISM is an actual program. No one doubts that. randome Jul 2013 #162

So in other words, TM99 Jul 2013 #172

Character assumptions aside... randome Jul 2013 #174

Ironic really what you write. TM99 Jul 2013 #181

He gave them the IP addresses of the computers we were hacking. randome Jul 2013 #182

Allegedly? TM99 Jul 2013 #185

Heh heh heh. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #2

Because he wasn't s'ponsed to talk about it not existing. Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #3

Metadata does not belong to you. stonecutter357 Jul 2013 #12

When did Progressives become the party of unquestioning obedience to authority? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #15

When did progressives start accepting libertarian woo with no criticism? baldguy Jul 2013 #18

Libertarians are against restrictions on owning pit bulls. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #21

Does that mean we should ALWAYS support them on every issue? baldguy Jul 2013 #26

You and the other one made the blanket declaration, not me. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #34

Your Post #15 baldguy Jul 2013 #40

No, the complaint against spying on Americans was given the unqualified dismissal of Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #42

No, it's because Snowden is a libertarian with controversial, contradictory and irrational ideas baldguy Jul 2013 #49

Then he can't be a criminal. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #53

Theft is still a crime. Exposing secret information is still a crime. baldguy Jul 2013 #55

Lies, misleading statements and exaggerations can't be secrets. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #61

But exposing methods & practices, as well as active intelligence agents (as he has threatened to do) baldguy Jul 2013 #74

You are stonecutter357 Jul 2013 #30

They can also send police or soldiers to ransack people's homes. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #38

Interesting that Progressives are supposed to march in lockstep behind anyone treestar Jul 2013 #179

There is a case that needs overturned. sibelian Jul 2013 #51

Yes, PRISM is real. However, Snowden made a few false statements and exaggerations. Galraedia Jul 2013 #23

"If Snowden was interested in the truth he wouldn't be making false claims and exaggerations." baldguy Jul 2013 #29

To hell with the President's privacy. He's just another public employee. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #32

when? stonecutter357 Jul 2013 #36

Because the government is keeping data on its citizens. sibelian Jul 2013 #58

The 4th Amendment regulates searches. It has never been an absolute. randome Jul 2013 #64

No, that's not good enough. sibelian Jul 2013 #66

It has been this way since Bush, Jr. days. randome Jul 2013 #70

All hail, Bush! Long may he reign. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #78

What people "claim" or do not "claim" is irrelevant, randome sibelian Jul 2013 #80

Even the 'genius' hacker could not get evidence to support his claims. randome Jul 2013 #82

Apparently those who have the power assure us they are to be trusted. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #72

You may have accepted it. I haven't. Fuddnik Jul 2013 #83

Metal detectors. Drug-sniffing dogs. Drug tests. DNA collection. Fingerprinting. randome Jul 2013 #87

Spell check can't help you now. You're in the dark land of bad homophones. DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #111

It's stonecutter357 Jul 2013 #115

Awwww, come on. I wasn't going er. DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #116

Thanks stonecutter357 Jul 2013 #117

You too DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #118

For the same reason that... backscatter712 Jul 2013 #27

Also they claim that he is a liar but the PowerPoint slide he provided proves that the rhett o rick Jul 2013 #41

I'm sorry, but something just doesn't smell right about Snowden. watoos Jul 2013 #48

Maybe I don't give a shit. sibelian Jul 2013 #60

Or at least Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #65

Because he's a felonious lawbreaking criminal wrongdoing badness type guy sibelian Jul 2013 #52

It's NOT a figment of his imagination or even under dispute that pnwmom Jul 2013 #54

I'm OK seeing Snowden go to jail for those crimes Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #63

No one has shown that any criminal laws have been broken yet pnwmom Jul 2013 #71

They violated the 4th Amendment and no law can trump that. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #76

Collecting telephone metadata has already been ruled by the Supreme Court pnwmom Jul 2013 #195

It is really simple. He STOLE information & gave it to China/Russia. How some can't grasp KittyWampus Jul 2013 #59

Then he can share a cell with James Clapper. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #62

total non sequitor. KittyWampus Jul 2013 #121

Sharing a cell with Aldrich Ames or Robert Hanssen might be more appropriate. n/t bornskeptic Jul 2013 #166

What information did he give to Russia? I could say I am the Queen of England on the internet sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #69

Please, you know damn full well he did. HE ADMITS IT AND IS GOING TO GO THROUGH HIS FILES KittyWampus Jul 2013 #122

I don't know any such thing. I know what has been released, that is all. You stated sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #184

sick, here you go. KittyWampus Jul 2013 #187

But everybody already ohheckyeah Jul 2013 #189

Because there is no need for logic when you are defending the indefensible. You just keep throwing sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #67

There is a difference between making a big hullabaloo about hedgehog Jul 2013 #68

Good job! Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #81

The info he gave to the Chinese had nothing to do with domestic surveilance, PRISM or phone metadata arely staircase Jul 2013 #86

But many want to use the fact of the former to dismiss the latter. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #88

I just use it to point out that he is a traitor. nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #90

I think you need to go back and read your own OP. KittyWampus Jul 2013 #123

No the technology DOES exist. VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #95

Wrongo Savannahmann Jul 2013 #132

This will be completely ignored again in subsequent threads on this subject, Benton D Struckcheon Jul 2013 #131

Personally, I think he's lying about that. randome Jul 2013 #133

They can't treat it as a lie. Benton D Struckcheon Jul 2013 #136

Or they could simply wait and see who gets killed. randome Jul 2013 #140

Yeah, well, I don't know about the rest of these people, Benton D Struckcheon Jul 2013 #143

OK, now the next question. Savannahmann Jul 2013 #137

I just have to keep repeating myself cause you guys keep circling back to the same, Benton D Struckcheon Jul 2013 #139

Again Booz Allen is a contracting company. Savannahmann Jul 2013 #149

Go ask Snowden. Benton D Struckcheon Jul 2013 #154

Because it's politically inconvenient to remind people we're getting screwed? DirkGently Jul 2013 #145

Evidence counts. Snowden has not shown any. randome Jul 2013 #153

Which "undercover agents" has he outed? DirkGently Jul 2013 #157

He said he had access to that info and strongly implied he would release it. randome Jul 2013 #161

I thought he & Greenwald said they were vetting to avoid that. DirkGently Jul 2013 #163

I think they said initially that vetting was occurring. randome Jul 2013 #165

I don't think it helps the NSA if Snowden is lying or exaggerating. DirkGently Jul 2013 #168

Capt Kirk fried the electronic brain in the doomsday machine NOMAD by asking such a trick question. Octafish Jul 2013 #155

My daughters -just turned 16- have become Trekkies. randome Jul 2013 #158

Ours may be an 'Associative Universe' Octafish Jul 2013 #164

It is an amazing universe. randome Jul 2013 #167

And it's nothing we didn't already know!!! dkf Jul 2013 #173

Straw man treestar Jul 2013 #175