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HumansAndResources

(229 posts)

94. The 4th Amendment ??

Sun Jul 7, 2013, 02:19 AM

Jul 2013

Last I checked, Ron Paul spoke positively of Snowden, and opposed the Patriot Act when he was a Congressman. Ron Paul is not a part-time civil-libertarian (i.e. only when his party isn't in power), and has a voting-record to prove it.
It is his economic conclusions / policies which are the problem.

My screen-name is about the root of that problem - shared to a large extent by the left and the right - where "humans" are treated as "resources" to be "traded in a market" (right wing) or "managed like a herd by bureaucrats" (left-wing) - instead of "people" with a sovereign right to live without "serving" the wishes of a billionaire's-board or government-committee.

I am perceived as "left-leaning" because I recognize that Socialist-Sweden is a hell of a lot better than Capitalist-Indonesia (which drives the AnCaps and Libertarians up the wall) - though I would prefer actual "freedom" to either.

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Irony of ironies: The Ron Paul Libertarian's one way out is the "land of Chavez and Bolivar" [View all] Godhumor Jul 2013 OP

Not "one" way... truebluegreen Jul 2013 #1

So you think the Libertarian would prefer to end up in Nicaragua? pnwmom Jul 2013 #105

Cheap, readily available narcotics... Scurrilous Jul 2013 #2

It really chaps your ass, doesn't it? 99Forever Jul 2013 #3

"Royal emperor?" This place has become Infowars. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #8

When he joins the People and fights for US... 99Forever Jul 2013 #10

DU has turned into equivalent of GOP site Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #12

The childish simplicity of hating Obama geek tragedy Jul 2013 #16

So Obama has pissed off everyone on the entire political spectrum, including his base. DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #27

Moderates tend to do that. They're never extreme enough on any point Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #35

Keep up the snark. Check back with me after mid-terms DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #36

Ok. I will. Too bad Obama lost in 2012 due to bad economy Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #39

Well, I was told that those wouldn't be a problem due to mindless Obama-voting persons CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #70

No, I said the fringe weirdos on both sides hate him. nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #38

Someone mentioned a term 80-20. I am starting to think indeed that is true. nt. graham4anything Jul 2013 #101

from the expert of childish simplicity! bravo sir! galileoreloaded Jul 2013 #31

True. But not in the way you mean. Bonobo Jul 2013 #25

Unfortunately, not gonna happen. 99Forever Jul 2013 #44

I have no problem with people demanding answers from their government Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #54

+1000 CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #56

Now, don't forget the other half... Scootaloo Jul 2013 #57

false equivalence. despite all the "freedom fighters" on here Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #59

You don't even seem to understand my premise Scootaloo Jul 2013 #69

"Wholly owned tool of the 1%." geek tragedy Jul 2013 #13

I can always tell when I strike a nerve... 99Forever Jul 2013 #18

That dismissive tone you get is because geek tragedy Jul 2013 #19

sloganeering does seem to have replaced discussion, even spirited argument arely staircase Jul 2013 #42

Reducing intellectual views to "hate" and "love" rather than basing it on content and action... Kurovski Jul 2013 #46

People who proclaim Obama 100% evil and a servant geek tragedy Jul 2013 #67

"100% evil", "villian"...those are your words. Kurovski Jul 2013 #75

"Wholly owned tool of the 1%" is a verbatim quote. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #76

That's not true at all. Marr Jul 2013 #95

Only if you aren't paying attention. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #96

I'm going to assume you're being intentionally obtuse. /nt Marr Jul 2013 #97

No, obtuse is pretending that Obama takes the side of the 1% against the rest of humanity geek tragedy Jul 2013 #98

What's childish is rephrasing everything in this binary, good/evil way like you keep doing. Marr Jul 2013 #99

Blah blah blah Obama serves the 1% blah blah blah. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #100

LOL, you mean the one where all he had to do was *nothing* in order to win? Marr Jul 2013 #102

You're familiar with what a large increase in taxes on geek tragedy Jul 2013 #107

Yes, that was the fig leaf of an excuse I just referred to. Marr Jul 2013 #109

"DU has been infiltrated by bloodthirsty totalitarian fascists." arely staircase Jul 2013 #79

That's funny. Some people need to feel like geek tragedy Jul 2013 #80

I hope so. I thought about it but ironically I would need the NSAs giant data bases arely staircase Jul 2013 #82

Snork. nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #83

like any of us give a good god damn what bets are "on" or "off" for you... dionysus Jul 2013 #40

Have you not seen the hagiographic posts about how BEAUTIFUL Michelle Obama is! MNBrewer Jul 2013 #55

That stuff has no appeal for me. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #62

WTF? It's hagiographic to comment on Michelle Obama's graceful beauty and fashion choices? KittyWampus Jul 2013 #65

They bitterly whine about nice things said geek tragedy Jul 2013 #68

No, not really Godhumor Jul 2013 #9

Uh huh, sure... 99Forever Jul 2013 #11

What do you think his life would be like in Venezuela? Godhumor Jul 2013 #14

I don't care... 99Forever Jul 2013 #20

So Snowden's life isn't important to you? What empathy for the man whose cause you support Godhumor Jul 2013 #21

Lame. 99Forever Jul 2013 #22

You've already admitted the person who is at the center of this isn't important to you Godhumor Jul 2013 #23

Give it up. 99Forever Jul 2013 #24

Well good luck fighting the fight, as Snowden represents only a means to an end n/t Godhumor Jul 2013 #30

he's a hero, a sweet bebe jesus... but simultaneously... not important. dionysus Jul 2013 #41

Dionysus! How nice to see you again! Ideals before people is always troubling Godhumor Jul 2013 #45

Bolivar was not progressive in a governing sense. a la izquierda Jul 2013 #4

The origin of 'socialist dictators' is a circle leading back to Western opposition. HumansAndResources Jul 2013 #49

I have a PhD in Latin American history. a la izquierda Jul 2013 #93

Have you ever heard of someone who supports civil liberties? Th1onein Jul 2013 #5

Snowden is an admitted Libertarian in the Ron Paul sense Godhumor Jul 2013 #7

You know, everything is NOT black and white. Th1onein Jul 2013 #84

Proof that Paulbots can be turned into socialists. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #6

Since it is a de facto dictatorship, I doubt that will be an issue. Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #15

Venezuela is a flawed democracy. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #17

Hurts, huh? The Link Jul 2013 #26

It truly doesn't. If he accepts asylum and if he makes it there, he becomes marginalized Godhumor Jul 2013 #33

Nicely said. Number23 Jul 2013 #34

Exactly. The irony is completely lost in rooting him on to Venezuela. CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #60

Yeah, which itself has a rather remarkable surveillance state. joshcryer Jul 2013 #28

For Ron Paul Libertarians, honesty, virtue & integrity are .... flexible. baldguy Jul 2013 #29

Snowden should be more like the NSA, The Carlyle Group, Blackwater...... think Jul 2013 #32

What makes you think he isn't? baldguy Jul 2013 #37

I guess he could support the crooks he just helped expose & embarrass think Jul 2013 #43

He supports Ron Paul - which means he DOES support the crooks. baldguy Jul 2013 #48

So now I'm suppose to call you a supporter of the Bush Cabal behind The Carlyle Group? think Jul 2013 #51

Don't worry about BaldMcCarthy DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #63

Thanks. I should know better.... /nt think Jul 2013 #78

"How we're playing" is when you unequivcally support a liar & a hypocrite like Snowden baldguy Jul 2013 #71

Yawn.. think Jul 2013 #72

And you don't seem to care about those ugly destinations, either. baldguy Jul 2013 #87

I care about the NSA & private contractor violations of the law not ulgy destinations think Jul 2013 #88

Then why has Snowden not shown any concern about the privatization of our intelligence apparatus? baldguy Jul 2013 #90

Don't be silly. I support these 22 Dem Senators & their demands from the NSA: think Jul 2013 #91

Why not try to show some critical thinking skills - and not just some cut&paste? baldguy Jul 2013 #92

The privatization of our intel infrastructure is the real scandal here. SunSeeker Jul 2013 #103

No. Because Libertarians do believe in Civil Liberties ... HumansAndResources Jul 2013 #47

If you're a left-leaning, 4th Amendment loving, anti-corporate, anti-establishment libertarian baldguy Jul 2013 #50

The 4th Amendment ?? HumansAndResources Jul 2013 #94

Part and parcel of the Left's incoherence these days alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #52

Snowden hates Social Security, but he is 'Revered' here. CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #58

I want huge, 1950's style social program...I want alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #64

.... ForeignandDomestic Jul 2013 #66

I'll raise you an Al Franken. CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #73

You mean the Al Franken who is 1 of 22 Dem Senators signing a letter demanding think Jul 2013 #85

Nothing incoherent at all... ForeignandDomestic Jul 2013 #61

Yeah, they don't seem to realize that hysteria geek tragedy Jul 2013 #86

To be fair, though, Democrats can generally consider several points at once without Nay Jul 2013 #106

Yes, I know-- liberals are clamoring for more domestic spying. Marr Jul 2013 #104

It just shows that leftists and Libertarians CAN work together toward worthy goals MNBrewer Jul 2013 #53

And who do you think will get screwed in that exchange, huh? baldguy Jul 2013 #89

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jul 2013 #74

Has to go someplace.. Iceland voted against his sneaky Cha Jul 2013 #77

I said this guy was not very bright from the beginning. Rex Jul 2013 #81

Not the mutual admiration club and circle jerk you were hoping for? Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #108

With what DU has been like lately, do you honestly think I expected a circle jerk with this thread? Godhumor Jul 2013 #110

k and r animato Jul 2013 #111