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nolabels

(13,133 posts)

165. With * it was only 1 of the things

Mon Jul 8, 2013, 04:01 PM

Jul 2013

And for me it's not about Snowden or President Obama personally but more of the deal with the secretive corporate military / industrial complex garrison state we find ourselves in.

Our country is being pimped out to corporations to be their policemen for the rest of the world

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The big schism on DU appears to be over exactly what we objected to about Bush [View all] WonderGrunion Jul 2013 OP

Neh, SNOWDEN/GREENWALD is about SNOWDEN/GREENWALD. UTUSN Jul 2013 #1

The personalities are part of it WonderGrunion Jul 2013 #7

And "some" people can have their opinion and "other" people (me) can have mine. n/t UTUSN Jul 2013 #17

More to the point, we should all have our own opinion WonderGrunion Jul 2013 #20

Or "authoritarians". n/t UTUSN Jul 2013 #22

best way to avoid being labeled an authoritarian is to not voice support.. frylock Jul 2013 #76

Best way for you not to be one is not to attempt to shut down dissenting opinions, besides UTUSN Jul 2013 #91

this nt Demo_Chris Jul 2013 #96

Part of being an adult is realizing there are not clear, bright lines in everything. jeff47 Jul 2013 #117

+10 That is pretty obvious to some of us. RC Jul 2013 #129

or totalitarians however, saying Ron/Rand Paul is one, is racist is the truth. He is what he is. graham4anything Jul 2013 #33

A piece of paper that says "warrant" that actually throws a dragnet over TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #40

Well now................. JimboBillyBubbaBob Jul 2013 #61

+100 nt 99th_Monkey Jul 2013 #105

It's an exaggeration to say that Bush was a logical continuance. mattclearing Jul 2013 #116

George Bush was such a logical continuance of Reagan that he was a systemic necessity TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #162

Good thing they aren't doing that then. jeff47 Jul 2013 #124

No, the access to the metadata is via dragnet "warrants". TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #164

No, the recording of the metadata is. jeff47 Jul 2013 #167

Merely, the logical continuance of a more pervasive and larger systemic cancer. RC Jul 2013 #132

Yep. The invasions of privacy and seizures are occurring. I am sick of hearing how the GoneFishin Jul 2013 #154

And that accountability is how? marble falls Jul 2013 #62

How do you know he has restored accountability when you don't know what they are doing? dkf Jul 2013 #81

Then why didn't Snowden leak that? jeff47 Jul 2013 #127

Not done yet. dkf Jul 2013 #134

Your argument would only make sense if you weren't assuming that was coming. jeff47 Jul 2013 #135

Thank you for your post RainDog Jul 2013 #92

Then why didn't Snowden leak those? jeff47 Jul 2013 #128

I don't know why Snowden is doing what he's doing RainDog Jul 2013 #141

That's a very long way to go to dodge the question. jeff47 Jul 2013 #151

lol. I'm not dodging any question RainDog Jul 2013 #152

No it's not, nor is that comic strip which is at least 14 months old because Crock Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #9

Both things can be true, see my Disclaimer. It was in today's Sunday comics. UTUSN Jul 2013 #14

Yeah. A 'comics editor' has no rights to alter content of a protected work by others. Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #31

You're mis-reading and injecting your projections and motives *again*!1 UTUSN Jul 2013 #44

Funny thing is, we laugh at the GOP for being in lockstep no matter what - djean111 Jul 2013 #2

+1 Arkansas Granny Jul 2013 #3

I agree, we are either a Big Tent Party or we aren't WonderGrunion Jul 2013 #4

Or you get called ... JoePhilly Jul 2013 #15

That's exactly right, CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #57

Exactly treestar Jul 2013 #72

Did you see the thread today in which the OP says JoePhilly Jul 2013 #85

Yes. treestar Jul 2013 #101

+2. n/t NRaleighLiberal Jul 2013 #64

The 23%ers or whatever that floor was. dkf Jul 2013 #84

My biggest gripe with the evil Bush/Cheney empire was Iraq. DCBob Jul 2013 #5

I agree completely WonderGrunion Jul 2013 #16

Obama merely followed Bush's lead to end the occupation in Iraq. Lasher Jul 2013 #25

I assume the people defending Obama's warrantless spying also defended Bush? HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #6

I've yet to see anything credible that shows President Obama is breaking the law. WonderGrunion Jul 2013 #10

Yeah, well Obama never halted his sermons against marrige equality because it Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #19

Obama hates the gayz. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #104

Of course you haven't. HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #21

I don't understand how anyone can make that argument, then turn around and Marr Jul 2013 #35

+100 truebluegreen Jul 2013 #50

Then why didn't Snowden leak that? jeff47 Jul 2013 #130

There are all manner of articles describing Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #119

So you still have not gotten that Obama went back to the warrants treestar Jul 2013 #73

Broad warrants, that include everyone. HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #78

That has been going on since the late 1970s treestar Jul 2013 #102

No. It was Obama lawyers that argued before FISA court for broad warrants. HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #103

No it has not. nt Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #120

You realize it isn't your data, right? jeff47 Jul 2013 #133

And content? email? internet usage? HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #136

None of that has been backed up by leaks. jeff47 Jul 2013 #138

Clapper was already caught lying about it, remember? HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #140

No, you are confusing multiple programs. jeff47 Jul 2013 #150

Thanks for posting this. Amonester Jul 2013 #153

Overly broad warrants are a violation of the constitution too. JoeyT Jul 2013 #107

Any defendant can challenge the warrant in court treestar Jul 2013 #114

You don't know if they are based on the rule of law Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #121

A solution for that: treestar Jul 2013 #126

There is no "schism" here on DU. Vinnie From Indy Jul 2013 #8

I'm not just talking about Snowden and Greenwald, in reality they are a sideshow WonderGrunion Jul 2013 #11

True Vinnie From Indy Jul 2013 #23

It sounds like Obama should have taken the oath of office to uphold all laws except the laws started Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #53

If that was the actual case, I'd think you would spend time not in the chiding of Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #26

I'm chiding myself as much as anyone else WonderGrunion Jul 2013 #34

That sure is not what you typed. Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #47

Or I can leave it unedited and let this exchange stand as it is WonderGrunion Jul 2013 #49

Well - as you pointed out Ms. Toad Jul 2013 #67

+1, very true. Marr Jul 2013 #37

This was one of the best and well thought out posts I've seen in quite some time! NutmegYankee Jul 2013 #12

Thank you WonderGrunion Jul 2013 #24

The folks doing Pin Up Politics about Snowden and Greenwald are a tiny lot of DUers Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #13

It's not just the issue of Snowden and Greenwald WonderGrunion Jul 2013 #27

More vague language a 'host of issues'. Ok, let's look at one. Let's look at marriage Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #38

I have always supported marriage equality and you can check my Journal WonderGrunion Jul 2013 #45

So your claim is that opposition to equality is not homophobia nor bigotry? Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #55

I would appreciate links for information RainDog Jul 2013 #93

Were we mad at boosh for receiving the intelligence or for dissing it? Tikki Jul 2013 #18

Osama bin Laden Determined to Attack Within The United States WonderGrunion Jul 2013 #30

Interesting perspective. Union Scribe Jul 2013 #28

Principle, moral principle, is always my guide. Savannahmann Jul 2013 #29

+100 nt Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #122

True, but you'll have a hard time selling that. Some have actually convinced themselves Doctor_J Jul 2013 #32

+100 truebluegreen Jul 2013 #52

Question remains for me nineteen50 Jul 2013 #60

Because he doesn't work for us Doctor_J Jul 2013 #70

President Obama has graham4anything Jul 2013 #36

Interesting perspective. Some on this board wanted Obama to be more HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #39

I'm not sure if this country was ready for, or deserved, an FDR or Lincoln WonderGrunion Jul 2013 #41

I'm reading Doris Kearns Goodwin's "Team of Rivals" for the HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #46

Ready for? Deserved? truebluegreen Jul 2013 #58

I disagree with that. Ms. Toad Jul 2013 #68

I should add that saying Obama is "more moral" than Bush is damning the HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #82

It's more basic then that. baldguy Jul 2013 #42

Yup. I am so sick of being attacked by my fellow DUers just for asking for a link. SunSeeker Jul 2013 #69

Well said. nt bluestate10 Jul 2013 #118

Many here were rightly disturbed on the whole war lies/we need info/it's for your own good thing.. Safetykitten Jul 2013 #43

I am disturbed about the same things that have been disturbing me since about 1968. bemildred Jul 2013 #48

People voted for Obama to not be like Bush Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #51

nope. The schism is between those who have supported Obama from the beginning and those who haven't. MjolnirTime Jul 2013 #54

I don't think it is nearly as black and white as that. Not in my case, anyway. n/t NRaleighLiberal Jul 2013 #66

you are a liar RainDog Jul 2013 #99

"you are part of the problem here". Cha Jul 2013 #145

Dead on. I see the same usernames attacking President Obama over the NSA dustup bluestate10 Jul 2013 #123

I do see a lot of the same ol same.. Cha Jul 2013 #146

The "no true scotsman" fallacy. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jul 2013 #158

K&R. Feels like Bush is still president to me. Only now his policies are being defended since forestpath Jul 2013 #56

Yeah, because it's exactly the same thing. Bobbie Jo Jul 2013 #59

Why Do You Assume RobinA Jul 2013 #109

One is often readily able to Bobbie Jo Jul 2013 #137

The good guys are doing it now is what we can't get them to understand. ileus Jul 2013 #63

United or untied? jimlup Jul 2013 #65

Since Obama went back to the FISC treestar Jul 2013 #71

Nonsense. Ms. Toad Jul 2013 #86

No they are laws treestar Jul 2013 #100

So everyone over 18 is required to smoke, then? Ms. Toad Jul 2013 #106

I wish you would make this brilliant reply HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #139

Your Last RobinA Jul 2013 #110

The need for the court is a law that Bush ignored. You can dance around the issue all you want. bluestate10 Jul 2013 #125

The only dancing being done Ms. Toad Jul 2013 #142

"War Based On Lies" is exactly why I will never trust this fucked up government. L0oniX Jul 2013 #74

"Your principles are tested by where you stand truth2power Jul 2013 #75

My Objections Are "War" And "Wiretapping" - Means I Am Very Disappointed In Obama cantbeserious Jul 2013 #77

You miss a few things. caseymoz Jul 2013 #79

I Think You Nailed The Description Of Some DU Participants cantbeserious Jul 2013 #83

You call the FISA Court a rubberstamp? How in the hell did you come up with that conclusion? bluestate10 Jul 2013 #131

...huh? Union Scribe Jul 2013 #144

Whoops. They are 100% wrong and will not be able to do that. Bonobo Jul 2013 #156

Rejection rate by FISA: .03 percent. caseymoz Jul 2013 #157

Don't know about the schism (haven't been here), but there's another... polichick Jul 2013 #80

Seems like people objected to Bush doing it because he was a Republican. Apophis Jul 2013 #87

The big schism on DU has been here since its inception. LWolf Jul 2013 #88

I was on DU when the DLC crowd tried to bully us into supporting the War against Iraq Jack Rabbit Jul 2013 #89

Then we were "unpatriotic". Now we're racists Doctor_J Jul 2013 #94

can you believe this shyte? Skittles Jul 2013 #159

worthy of its own thread, Jack Rabbit Skittles Jul 2013 #160

at least you are allowing for sensible reasons for both perspectives Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #90

which you have also engaged in, fwiw. RainDog Jul 2013 #95

I doubt I brought race into the mix re: Obama on DU. Other places? Sure. Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #97

I don't think you've done that, specifically RainDog Jul 2013 #98

it is "obsessive defenders", not "defenders" Skittles Jul 2013 #161

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are over?!?!? Really? Why are there still troops on the ground ? bowens43 Jul 2013 #108

I'm not giving the Obama administration a pass on this, however, I'm not Cleita Jul 2013 #111

Calling this a "warrant" is a perversion of the very term LittleBlue Jul 2013 #112

Exactly is invariably used by people that are trying to pass off a falsehood. bluestate10 Jul 2013 #113

I think the big tent is too big felix_numinous Jul 2013 #115

I believe in Howard Dean's 50 State Strategy WonderGrunion Jul 2013 #147

I forgot about that felix_numinous Jul 2013 #149

Good points. But it's sad that 10 years on, this even needed to be explained to people. Number23 Jul 2013 #143

"Secret laws" and "secret courts" are inconsistent with constitutional republic. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2013 #148

+Brazillion. nt Bonobo Jul 2013 #155

I have no idea how the Clinton administration got their intelligence on the imminent plans... Tikki Jul 2013 #163

With * it was only 1 of the things nolabels Jul 2013 #165

Exactly usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #166