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longship

(40,416 posts)

55. Avogadro's number!

Mon Jul 8, 2013, 08:45 PM

Jul 2013

It's something every educated person should have learned in high school chemistry. I am sorry if people didn't pay attention; that's not my fault.

6.023 x 10^23 is the number of atoms (or molecules) in an atomic weight (in grams) of a substance.

When you dilute a solution using successive dilutions as is the way with homeopathy, there comes a point where there are no more molecules of the active ingredient left. It's a simple numbers game which anybody ought to be able to calculate.

Once one goes beyond the dilution limit, it's irrelevant how many more times you perform the successive steps. There is no more active ingredient remaining.

This is chemistry 101. But if people didn't pay attention in high school, I can see how they might think that homeopathy might work. Sadly for them, but gladly for the companies marketing that quackery.

Homeopathy (wiki)

Homeopathy and Plausibility (Science-Based Medicine Blog) much more at this site.

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Why is woo sold as "mainstream?" [View all] Archae Jul 2013 OP

Not all homeopathy is quackery, but the homeopathy market does let in some quackery as well. JaneyVee Jul 2013 #1

All true homeopathy is quackery. It's heavily diluted water that supposedly has a "memory." Dash87 Jul 2013 #4

Good point. I was lumping things like acupuncture and massage into homeopathy. JaneyVee Jul 2013 #15

It's easy to confuse the term *holistic* medicine (which is often legit, or at least arguably so) The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #29

Yeah, I'm actually so used to seeing signs here in NY stating: JaneyVee Jul 2013 #31

As a former massage therapist, I don't know which I resented more: eShirl Jul 2013 #111

All homeopathy is quackery. HERVEPA Jul 2013 #5

Homeopathy IS quackery. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #6

Excuse me! zappaman Jul 2013 #20

Homeopathy's claims and its premises have all been falsified by 19th and 20th century science. longship Jul 2013 #25

... opiate69 Jul 2013 #44

homeopathy is woo, you might be confusing it with holistic... dionysus Jul 2013 #63

$$$$$ think Jul 2013 #2

Exactly! hobbit709 Jul 2013 #3

this! bobduca Jul 2013 #79

But more so... Javaman Jul 2013 #145

If people buy it, they are happy to sell it. NRaleighLiberal Jul 2013 #7

May as well use a hammer, than that stuff. longship Jul 2013 #36

I see problems with both ends of this - being a pharmaceutical chemist for many years.... NRaleighLiberal Jul 2013 #45

I'll take heirloom tomatoes over pharmaceuticals any day! zappaman Jul 2013 #47

hey - you been in my kitchen? NRaleighLiberal Jul 2013 #49

No, but loving my farmers markets zappaman Jul 2013 #53

O/T The ones in your sig file are just gorgeous! eridani Jul 2013 #105

Agreed, but homeopathy is still quackery. longship Jul 2013 #59

couldn't agree more. n/t NRaleighLiberal Jul 2013 #60

Me too. RiffRandell Jul 2013 #99

Homeopathy is not woo marions ghost Jul 2013 #8

You are mistaken as to what homeopathy means cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #10

Many people make that mistake. n/t zappaman Jul 2013 #16

This is my perspective: marions ghost Jul 2013 #27

Placebo effects are powerful and not at all understood. NRaleighLiberal Jul 2013 #52

Am familiar with the placebo effect marions ghost Jul 2013 #61

No placebo cured an infection, or cancer, etc. longship Jul 2013 #71

I know a researcher who is trying to get the terminology changed to "placebo response" Recursion Jul 2013 #76

indeed. NRaleighLiberal Jul 2013 #77

Avogadro's number! longship Jul 2013 #55

I understand chemistry 101 marions ghost Jul 2013 #62

Apparently you don't if you think homeopathy is anything but utter quackery. longship Jul 2013 #68

Whatever... marions ghost Jul 2013 #72

None of what you cite works. longship Jul 2013 #73

My acupuncturist marions ghost Jul 2013 #80

Acupuncture is an invasive procedure. longship Jul 2013 #95

Gloves and clean needles are standard procedure of course marions ghost Jul 2013 #97

I don't use invasive procedures with zero benefit beyond placebo. longship Jul 2013 #102

What IS your problem? marions ghost Jul 2013 #116

My problem is with made up stuff which has no benefit. longship Jul 2013 #120

Just out of curiosity, what's your position on Asian medicine in general? Those HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #132

That it doesn't conform to science is the problem. longship Jul 2013 #140

I don't want to hijack Archae's thread but was hoping someone with expertise HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #143

No problem. Good luck. nt longship Jul 2013 #144

Acupuncture is NOT homeopathy. EOTE Jul 2013 #146

Wong Revanchist Jul 2013 #83

OK fine marions ghost Jul 2013 #90

Maybe in the developed countries Revanchist Jul 2013 #94

I don't know about any such misguided applications marions ghost Jul 2013 #123

The NSA has been monitoring Avogadro's number... jberryhill Jul 2013 #67

Undoubtedly a Sicilian Mafia plot!! longship Jul 2013 #69

You're a bad person. SwissTony Jul 2013 #126

Sheesh PasadenaTrudy Jul 2013 #129

Do you mean to say that they've given up on that horseshit about 10K dilutions in water? eridani Jul 2013 #106

I can't answer your question marions ghost Jul 2013 #124

Not understanding the confusion. Either you use the herb as is, or you eridani Jul 2013 #159

+1 BuddhaGirl Jul 2013 #12

It flares up now and then... marions ghost Jul 2013 #28

+1 Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #117

All water would cure everything NoOneMan Jul 2013 #18

Or kill us all because botulism exists. (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2013 #38

There's a difference between herbalism and homeopathy EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2013 #22

Please provide links to published (peer reviewed lit) reports of controlled studies kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #34

See my post 27 marions ghost Jul 2013 #43

Well, here's one. Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled. postulater Jul 2013 #155

using herbs/natural medicines is a good thing - but the dilutions/techniques NRaleighLiberal Jul 2013 #46

you're confusing homeopathy with holistic, i think. dionysus Jul 2013 #64

I know the difference marions ghost Jul 2013 #66

Useful? No. Horseshit? Yes. Archae Jul 2013 #82

Not to a lot of people marions ghost Jul 2013 #84

"A lot of people" believe all gays are going to hell. Archae Jul 2013 #92

Of course testimonials are not evidence marions ghost Jul 2013 #93

Ha! We agree on that. I was looking to see if anyone Cha Jul 2013 #107

And that's my point too marions ghost Jul 2013 #121

Experience Berlum Jul 2013 #150

I think you're thinking of herbal medicine. That is not homeopathy. LeftishBrit Jul 2013 #160

There is an overlap marions ghost Jul 2013 #161

It's all about the Benjamins. Apophis Jul 2013 #9

I thought this homeopathy was treatment for "skin tags"? zappaman Jul 2013 #11

Another woo thread. laundry_queen Jul 2013 #13

Lol. can we ban that word now? nt B2G Jul 2013 #24

I hope so. nt laundry_queen Jul 2013 #40

Well, if we ban that word... ElboRuum Jul 2013 #54

Please. "Woo" sounds more stupid than what its describing. phleshdef Jul 2013 #136

Because some people believe in it and there's a demand for it. Cleita Jul 2013 #14

Good points marions ghost Jul 2013 #17

If you could sell a tiny ass bottle of water for $5, wouldn't you? n/t taught_me_patience Jul 2013 #19

Only if I could label is as Mermaid Tears NoOneMan Jul 2013 #21

if it was packaged nicely, I might buy a bottle of Mermaid Tears> BTW, OPI has a nail polish KittyWampus Jul 2013 #23

One of the funniest subject lines evah! Politicub Jul 2013 #70

Mermaid Tears are useless snooper2 Jul 2013 #125

LOL! It's all in the packaging (which includes the adverts). KittyWampus Jul 2013 #137

The Catholic Church has been doing it for years. Scurrilous Jul 2013 #30

Ouch! Careful now, or you'll restart the 30 Years War! Oh, wait a HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #138

Personally, I was raised to consider lying and fraud to be bad things. (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2013 #42

Yes, many of us were, yet there seems to be a long held opinion that those things don't Cleita Jul 2013 #58

This really deserves to be its own OP, imho. You've captured the HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #139

You seem to post extremely often on the subject of "woo". Regarding homeopathy> KittyWampus Jul 2013 #26

Homeopathy is indeed quackery of the highest order. kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #32

As a veterinarian, what do you think of Rescue Remedy? The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #33

It is harmless so long as it does not cause owners to delay legitimate medical care. kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #35

Thanks, that's pretty much what I suspected. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #41

Agreed. I think some of the problem is that it is marketed as "natural". Liberal Veteran Jul 2013 #39

Shit and sugar... SidDithers Jul 2013 #37

. NRaleighLiberal Jul 2013 #48

Aye yi yi zappaman Jul 2013 #50

Only if you vibrate your toilet at the right frequency while flushing Revanchist Jul 2013 #87

What the hell is a "skin tag"? ElboRuum Jul 2013 #51

It's like a mole but just excess skin. zappaman Jul 2013 #56

This message was self-deleted by its author freshwest Jul 2013 #104

Well, I used homeopathic teething tablets and colic tablets Butterbean Jul 2013 #57

For the record, the goat thing DOESN'T work Orrex Jul 2013 #85

LOL! n/t Butterbean Jul 2013 #114

The only "homeopathic" remedy that I ever relied on was the chamomile pills... Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #88

That would be herbal or hollistic, not homeopathic Revanchist Jul 2013 #96

They were sold as "homeopathic" and that is why I put the word into quotes. Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #98

I see Revanchist Jul 2013 #100

We did. My husband used to manage a health food store and refused to carry Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #103

Yeah, I understand that (I'm a nurse), and we consulted with our pediatrician Butterbean Jul 2013 #115

Why is it that what sells is mainstreamed, woo or no? Coyotl Jul 2013 #65

Because people are stupid. sagat Jul 2013 #74

Been to Europe lately? The Apothekes are about 80% homeopathic Recursion Jul 2013 #75

$$$$$$$$$$$ bobduca Jul 2013 #78

Where do you think modern medicines come from, Archae? You think they Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #81

Eat healthy. exercize... Archae Jul 2013 #86

You are conflating homeopathy and a number of unrelated practices Orrex Jul 2013 #89

"The more you stay away from doctors and hospitals, the healthier you will be." sagat Jul 2013 #108

Ahhh homeopathy, Revanchist Jul 2013 #91

Damn...I just now got used to homosexuals...Now I got some OTHER homo-thingy to try ... BlueJazz Jul 2013 #101

Is she in denial about running a scam? eShirl Jul 2013 #110

She thinks she's helping the people (from what she says). I suspect otherwise but try to be fair... BlueJazz Jul 2013 #113

It's nowhere near as reliable as pyramid power. reusrename Jul 2013 #109

what is the deal with this word "WOO"? Skittles Jul 2013 #112

It's like nails on a chalk board Puzzledtraveller Jul 2013 #118

As long as there IS woo, I'm going to call it woo. Archae Jul 2013 #148

that does NOT answer my question Skittles Jul 2013 #153

"Woo" and "Bullshit" have differences. Archae Jul 2013 #156

so I Googled Skittles Jul 2013 #157

I think it is surpassing "PROLLY" for me on the irritation factor Skittles Jul 2013 #152

I think it has less to do with stupidity, and more to do with the failures of conventional medicine. StrayKat Jul 2013 #119

Probably for the same reason that some pharmacies sell cigarettes Freddie Stubbs Jul 2013 #122

And that reason would be.... CanSocDem Jul 2013 #127

$$$ Freddie Stubbs Jul 2013 #151

Back in the 70s PasadenaTrudy Jul 2013 #134

Depends on one's definition of mainstream get the red out Jul 2013 #128

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #130

Birch bark extract used to treat headaches? Wooo Quantess Jul 2013 #131

Homeopathic birch bark extract doesn't have any birch bark in it... SidDithers Jul 2013 #142

And has what to do with homeopathy? (A: nothing.) eShirl Jul 2013 #149

I still wonder PasadenaTrudy Jul 2013 #133

For the longest time I thought we were talking about a member of DU Puzzledtraveller Jul 2013 #135

DUZY for sure! (Maybe a Meta-DUZY?) - nt HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #141

this particular member seems to be obsessed with "Woo" Skittles Jul 2013 #158

Are you talking about tag away? Marrah_G Jul 2013 #147

No Homeopathy thread is complete without Mitchell and Webb... SidDithers Jul 2013 #154