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In reply to the discussion: Why do people keep bringing up the treatment of Manning in a military prison re: Snowden? [View all]Recursion
(56,582 posts)44. RCM 304 and 305
Pretrial confinement only requires probable cause, and is at the command's discretion
http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/MCM-2012.pdf
The pertinent paragraphs:
(d) When a person may be confined. No person may
be ordered into pretrial confinement except for prob-
able cause. Probable cause to order pretrial confine
ment exists when there is a reasonable belief that:
(1) An offense triable by court-martial has been
committed;
(2) The person confined committed it; and
(3) Confinement is required by the circumstances.
...
(2) Action by commander.
(A) Decision. Not later than 72 hours after the
commanders ordering of a prisoner into pretrial
confinement or, after receipt of a report that a mem
ber of the commanders unit or organization has
been confined, whichever situation is applicable, the
commander shall decide whether pretrial confine-
ment will continue. A commanders compliance
with this subsection may also satisfy the 48-hour
probable cause determination of subsection R.C.M.
305(i)(1) below, provided the commander is a neu
tral and detached officer and acts within 48 hours of
the imposition of confinement under military con
trol. Nothing in subsections R.C.M. 305(d), R.C.M.
305(i)(1), or this subsection prevents a neutral and
detached commander from completing the 48-hour
probable cause determination and the 72-hour com
manders decision immediately after an accused is
ordered into pretrial confinement.
(B) Requirements for confinement. The com
mander shall direct the prisoners release from pre-
trial confinement unless the commander believes
upon probable cause, that is, upon reasonable
grounds, that:
(i) An offense triable by a court-martial has
been committed;
(ii) The prisoner committed it; and
(iii) Confinement is necessary because it is
foreseeable that:
(a) The prisoner will not appear at trial,
pretrial hearing, or investigation, or
(b) The prisoner will engage in serious
criminal misconduct; and
(iv) Less severe forms of restraint are inade-
quate.
Serious criminal misconduct includes intimidation
of witnesses or other obstruction of justice, serious
injury of others, or other offenses which pose a
serious threat to the safety of the community or to
the effectiveness, morale, discipline, readiness, or
safety of the command, or to the national security of
the United States. As used in this rule, national
security means the national defense and foreign
relations of the United States and specifically in
cludes: a military or defense advantage over any
foreign nation or group of nations; a favorable for-
eign relations position; or a defense posture capable
of successfully resisting hostile or destructive action
from within or without, overt or covert.
be ordered into pretrial confinement except for prob-
able cause. Probable cause to order pretrial confine
ment exists when there is a reasonable belief that:
(1) An offense triable by court-martial has been
committed;
(2) The person confined committed it; and
(3) Confinement is required by the circumstances.
...
(2) Action by commander.
(A) Decision. Not later than 72 hours after the
commanders ordering of a prisoner into pretrial
confinement or, after receipt of a report that a mem
ber of the commanders unit or organization has
been confined, whichever situation is applicable, the
commander shall decide whether pretrial confine-
ment will continue. A commanders compliance
with this subsection may also satisfy the 48-hour
probable cause determination of subsection R.C.M.
305(i)(1) below, provided the commander is a neu
tral and detached officer and acts within 48 hours of
the imposition of confinement under military con
trol. Nothing in subsections R.C.M. 305(d), R.C.M.
305(i)(1), or this subsection prevents a neutral and
detached commander from completing the 48-hour
probable cause determination and the 72-hour com
manders decision immediately after an accused is
ordered into pretrial confinement.
(B) Requirements for confinement. The com
mander shall direct the prisoners release from pre-
trial confinement unless the commander believes
upon probable cause, that is, upon reasonable
grounds, that:
(i) An offense triable by a court-martial has
been committed;
(ii) The prisoner committed it; and
(iii) Confinement is necessary because it is
foreseeable that:
(a) The prisoner will not appear at trial,
pretrial hearing, or investigation, or
(b) The prisoner will engage in serious
criminal misconduct; and
(iv) Less severe forms of restraint are inade-
quate.
Serious criminal misconduct includes intimidation
of witnesses or other obstruction of justice, serious
injury of others, or other offenses which pose a
serious threat to the safety of the community or to
the effectiveness, morale, discipline, readiness, or
safety of the command, or to the national security of
the United States. As used in this rule, national
security means the national defense and foreign
relations of the United States and specifically in
cludes: a military or defense advantage over any
foreign nation or group of nations; a favorable for-
eign relations position; or a defense posture capable
of successfully resisting hostile or destructive action
from within or without, overt or covert.
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Why do people keep bringing up the treatment of Manning in a military prison re: Snowden? [View all]
Recursion
Jul 2013
OP
I wonder if Manny has links to some documentation which backs up his accusation.
Cali_Democrat
Jul 2013
#8
So the answer is "yes, he can be put in solitary confinement for the rest of his life"
MannyGoldstein
Jul 2013
#19
If he were convicted and sentenced to life in prison, and the prison regulations allowed that
Recursion
Jul 2013
#43
Yes, despite the fact that the MILITARY'S OWN PSYCHIATRIST said he wasn't a suicide risk! n/t
markpkessinger
Jul 2013
#40
Actually, there were several psychiatrists involved, including one who not long before
struggle4progress
Jul 2013
#49
Bullshit. He was treated that way by military personnel because they viewed him
JaneyVee
Jul 2013
#28
Who, exactly, is the commander in chief, the top dog, the head honcho, of the military?
ret5hd
Jul 2013
#77
So will there be any courts-martial for that gross violation of human rights
HardTimes99
Jul 2013
#183
They need to excuse the assholes treason. Obama is guilty of following the law
uponit7771
Jul 2013
#3
Well, the 2012 version only applies to persons identified as members of Al Qaeda
Recursion
Jul 2013
#94
Why don't you find in the NDAA the exact section that you think could be used
struggle4progress
Jul 2013
#50
The bill was hundreds of pages long. I suspect the poster never bothered to read
struggle4progress
Jul 2013
#86
Stop spreading disinformation. Section 1021 outlines indefinite detention, not 1022.
woo me with science
Jul 2013
#113
You're the one claiming there's some law allowing the indefinite detention of US Citizens
Recursion
Jul 2013
#153
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody
Demit
Jul 2013
#177
Stop spreading disinformation. No. 1021 is for indefinite detention,
woo me with science
Jul 2013
#111
That's exactly what I posted, only I didn't make stuff up about it like you did
Recursion
Jul 2013
#112
Yes. You're claiming there is some law that allows the indefinite detention of US citizens
Recursion
Jul 2013
#141
So, we're agreed no law allows for the indefinite detention of US citizens? Great.
Recursion
Jul 2013
#171
No, the point is that Americans are not clearly exempted from indefinite detention,
woo me with science
Jul 2013
#173
So, Section 1021 turned up empty for you, and now you're just saying there's a generic "danger"?
Recursion
Jul 2013
#174
Well, Snowden can always end in Gitmo. Not sure if I would consider THAT an improvement over
idwiyo
Jul 2013
#12
Yes. What he is most likely will end up in is a solitary confinement, not much better than Gitmo.
idwiyo
Jul 2013
#34
I know. It will be a solitary more likely and not better than what Manning had to go though.
idwiyo
Jul 2013
#35
He was in solitary while he was on suicide watch. This is a problem with military prisons in general
Recursion
Jul 2013
#48
I too am troubled that his request for a private unmonitored interview was denied
Recursion
Jul 2013
#125
I also think that Manning is getting a raw deal. It was he who brought the attention
southernyankeebelle
Jul 2013
#29
Sigh. He released a video that confirmed the military's finding that the attack was within the R.O.E
Recursion
Jul 2013
#54
Can't help but laugh at "Snowden would likely have been charged and released on bail".
idwiyo
Jul 2013
#64
Because when you go to the effort of keeping secret decisions based on secret laws made by secret
dkf
Jul 2013
#79
That's why I can't help but laugh at complete absurdity and hypocrisy of their posts.
idwiyo
Jul 2013
#180
Those are allowed by the rules of military prisons. Those rules should probaby be changed
Recursion
Jul 2013
#99
Well hell, we don't know that they didn't download his brain into a giant computer
Recursion
Jul 2013
#134
As I've said several times, his treatment was found to be illegal by a court
Recursion
Jul 2013
#151
And a judge held the law was broken, and came very close to setting him free
Recursion
Jul 2013
#150
No, that's established case law now. There wasn't case law on this before Padilla
Recursion
Jul 2013
#162
*shrug* Like I said, I can think of a million ways the government could screw us if it ignored law
Recursion
Jul 2013
#166
Because Obama is a power-mad dictator who likes to murder his enemies bare-handed.
baldguy
Jul 2013
#67
Does that mean you do not believe if caught, they might not consider tossing him in a
Drew Richards
Jul 2013
#81
Well I will have to go look it up but if he is possibly charged with treason I believe his
Drew Richards
Jul 2013
#102
Not to sound like a complete conspiracy nut but given our recent use of things like rendition
Arcanetrance
Jul 2013
#82
He will have all the rights and protections any accused federal felon has.
arely staircase
Jul 2013
#93
Yeah, after all there's no chance of a civilian ending up in a military prison without trial...
NuclearDem
Jul 2013
#137
As a person who has family and friends in prison. Bradley Manning was not tortured any more
bravenak
Jul 2013
#138
You are 100% correct. Instead he can be charged under a whole suite of SECRET laws, we, he AND...
TheMadMonk
Jul 2013
#169
A little Carribean vacation resort known as Gitmo. Numerous reports on prisoner treatment...
TheMadMonk
Jul 2013
#179