General Discussion

90-percent

(6,955 posts)

30. wage disparity

Tue Jul 9, 2013, 07:30 AM

Jul 2013

I have a theory.

In the old height of baby boomer days in the mid 60's, compensation was more in proportion to the value of your contribution.

The big change that commenced in the election of Reagan in 1980 is that compensation is now power based rather than talent/work ethic based.

The most aggressive conscience-less personality types also infected the business culture with corruption. Corporate employment is strictly them or us, and the most sycophantic ("political&quot are those that rise the highest. Talented people that can make a real contribution are even sometimes considered a threat and persecuted out of the organization. (Brings up some of my observations from my working life; half the people you work with contribute to the common company good, and the other half are being rewarded for wrecking the company from within.)

Morality and generosity and basic human decency are for fools and losers. The game is now stealing from the powerless means more money for the powerful. Today the most cruel acts are inflicted on the innocent and decent, and it can be completely justified simply by calling it a "business decision".

-90% Jimmy

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Former Hostess Employees Bitter About Wage Cuts (fork lift operator- $11 an hour) [View all] cali Jul 2013 OP

That's what you get when you sign up with the communist party! Turbineguy Jul 2013 #1

You can't make the new owners pay the old wages ceonupe Jul 2013 #2

you're actually defending the evil fuckwads squeezing labor to its last breath? cali Jul 2013 #3

No I'm not ceonupe Jul 2013 #7

The company went BK, Cali Yo_Mama Jul 2013 #44

That is so much BS! TheJames Jul 2013 #62

Exactly. The executives bankrupted company NOT the employees. MrSlayer Jul 2013 #102

Every time I see workers in mass layoffs or salaries cut, it's management that failed to do its job. SharonAnn Jul 2013 #103

Exactly so and welcome to DU suffragette Jul 2013 #108

We have a winner. Welcome to DU. RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #156

You are exactly correct Samantha Jul 2013 #192

bullshit. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #128

that's BS and paired with your denial of global warming, the pattern is emerging CreekDog Jul 2013 #167

That was the *point* of the original company "failing" Fumesucker Jul 2013 #10

So I guess for you the only option would be state owned bakerys ceonupe Jul 2013 #12

No I don't trust "business" - the question is, why do you? demwing Jul 2013 #23

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #25

wrong,the greatest companies in the US were not government RUN companies but were heavily subsidized kelliekat44 Jul 2013 #29

FFS, if you are going to come on this site and spout off TBF Jul 2013 #32

He bought a star too! Wow... Agschmid Jul 2013 #37

did you get yours for free do tell? ceonupe Jul 2013 #43

The site supports no person... Agschmid Jul 2013 #132

what happens when you run out of others money to spend ceonupe Jul 2013 #38

You are the one who brought up communism - and as someone who knows a little TBF Jul 2013 #40

seeing as i took 2 sems. on topics about Marx I just disagree ceonupe Jul 2013 #42

Dude, if you're going to take on TBF about Marxism.... socialist_n_TN Jul 2013 #50

I'm sure they will enjoy their stay. Rex Jul 2013 #151

Why do you keep throwing those three terms together Rex Jul 2013 #150

WOW! So many RW libertarian canards, so little time... socialist_n_TN Jul 2013 #45

nothing stopped them from doing just that in fact ceonupe Jul 2013 #56

Yeah, but if you want to talk "communist", the government.... socialist_n_TN Jul 2013 #177

K & R; What he said. TheJames Jul 2013 #68

+ Infinity! - nt HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #136

Nice post Margaret Thatcher. Starry Messenger Jul 2013 #96

... TBF Jul 2013 #200

That's always been an illogical statement. Can't run out of money. haele Jul 2013 #105

"others' money"? HOSTESS is the one who stole "others' money". "Communism" is apparently HiPointDem Jul 2013 #134

"others money", a favorite RW talking point. Enjoy your stay. You won't be here long. liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #209

... Cal Carpenter Jul 2013 #60

LOL leftstreet Jul 2013 #69

I'll just put this right here - TBF Jul 2013 #201

There are not only 2 choices. How about worker owned fasttense Jul 2013 #26

america has been capitalist since it founding ceonupe Jul 2013 #36

Most citizens from democratic socialist countries in Scandinavia would disagree. Strongly. nt stillwaiting Jul 2013 #48

who protects scandinavia? ceonupe Jul 2013 #78

It does NOT detract from the FACT that their form of socialism has provided stillwaiting Jul 2013 #82

Small, homogenous populations telclaven Jul 2013 #84

Yes, like not having an imperial, corporate military. stillwaiting Jul 2013 #86

When will Military Contractors run out of 'our' money to spend? leftstreet Jul 2013 #74

yep britain who just kept expanding its empire and lost it all in ww2 ceonupe Jul 2013 #79

Post hoc ergo prompter hoc, followed by a bumper sticker, and then a rationalization for summation LanternWaste Jul 2013 #121

LOLOL Skittles Jul 2013 #187

heres why not rdking647 Jul 2013 #93

Actually some investors are starting to divest from WalMart over their shitty labor practices. Starry Messenger Jul 2013 #111

Arguments that begins with "so" so often turn out to be strawmen Fumesucker Jul 2013 #51

you are making my point ceonupe Jul 2013 #72

They are the same class of people Fumesucker Jul 2013 #83

lol - owners are owners period. TBF Jul 2013 #202

Oh I see what you are doing Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #63

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #71

Seeing how you are defending the drop in worker wages brentspeak Jul 2013 #75

again ceonupe Jul 2013 #77

Your entire premise is bullshit. SomethingFishy Jul 2013 #110

bullshit, talking points, horsetripe. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #131

LOLOL Skittles Jul 2013 #143

+1. that's the way they do it, hundreds of historical examples. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #130

But you can't blame the new owners" bullshit, corporate toady.. poor mis-understood owners leftyohiolib Jul 2013 #15

why should they they are a business ceonupe Jul 2013 #18

Sadly... KharmaTrain Jul 2013 #41

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #46

I see your point about the new owners treestar Jul 2013 #80

Second time you alluded to communism. Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #88

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jul 2013 #115

Thinks he has all the bases covered. Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #116

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jul 2013 #120

It appears he is commencing his flame out HangOnKids Jul 2013 #125

agree and looking for the silver lining sweetapogee Jul 2013 #213

Capitalism is not = to corporatism and is not the opposite of communism Spike89 Jul 2013 #207

People have no right to earn a living wage? dotymed Jul 2013 #49

Falling wages are a market failure and a systemic problem Recursion Jul 2013 #106

I remember looking into this when it was going down. Notafraidtoo Jul 2013 #141

they won't move up to 14 an hour when wages are falling CreekDog Jul 2013 #166

I truly don't understand "...has been unemployed since November..." and bike man Jul 2013 #4

22 years experience as a fork lift operator and he's offered $11 bucks an hour. cali Jul 2013 #5

I operated a fork lift in 1960, fresh out of high school. It is not an upwardly bike man Jul 2013 #9

so does 5$ should he now be expected to run that machine for 5 an hour leftyohiolib Jul 2013 #20

The guy is not 'expected' to do anything. He can accept a job at several dollars bike man Jul 2013 #21

puke. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #137

Ooh! Burn. nt bike man Jul 2013 #208

Cali you surprise me. dotymed Jul 2013 #58

What are those extra 20 years of experience worth? joeglow3 Jul 2013 #87

I'd say he's learned not to trust employers or the US government, at a minimum. Also to do the HiPointDem Jul 2013 #138

Nice smart ass way of not answering the question joeglow3 Jul 2013 #149

as another poster has pointed out, $11/hour buys you what minimum wage did in the 60s. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #154

I agree that the wage itself is bullshit. However, NOT because he has 22 years experience joeglow3 Jul 2013 #176

The man worked at the same company for 22 years and maxed out at $16/hour, $33K/year. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #193

Good. Because that is the category I am in. joeglow3 Jul 2013 #203

so what? HiPointDem Jul 2013 #206

You tell me joeglow3 Jul 2013 #211

We don't really know anything about the man. surrealAmerican Jul 2013 #6

And this is the new owners problem how? ceonupe Jul 2013 #8

It's their problem because they will not get good, experienced employees at those wages. surrealAmerican Jul 2013 #14

technology has dumbed down many manual labor jobs ceonupe Jul 2013 #16

no no no melm00se Jul 2013 #33

neoliberal fascism has dumbed down many DU posters. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #198

Can't wait to hear how hard it is to find good workers - at $9 and $10/hour hatrack Jul 2013 #52

OK, you've used up your good will demwing Jul 2013 #24

It's all a con. See Post #67 Hissyspit Jul 2013 #174

The article has more info on him. tammywammy Jul 2013 #28

sounds to me like he is a member of the upper middle class hfojvt Jul 2013 #91

He's a forklift operator and she's an RN Goblinmonger Jul 2013 #94

maybe you missed this thread hfojvt Jul 2013 #99

Per IRS data, average income for the middle quintile of households in 2009 was $64.3K. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #199

I tend to believe CTJ's data hfojvt Jul 2013 #218

Because IRS has the actual income/tax data, not the 'stated' data from census (which btw is noted HiPointDem Jul 2013 #219

"Upper" class? Really? nt Ilsa Jul 2013 #98

upper MIDDLE, yes hfojvt Jul 2013 #100

I apologize. I swear I saw Upper class, not UMC. Ilsa Jul 2013 #104

The guy gets $500/month for a 'pension'. not upper-middle class. Class is about relation to the HiPointDem Jul 2013 #146

Well, that's the second definition I've seen in this subthread. Ilsa Jul 2013 #162

There are only two definitions of class that make any sense. One is about position on the income HiPointDem Jul 2013 #191

who benefits from that kind of a definition? hfojvt Jul 2013 #179

what bullshit you spout. no, the ptb benefit when people like you whine about how a bakery HiPointDem Jul 2013 #190

uhm, it is his wife the RN hfojvt Jul 2013 #194

since you don't know what 'his wife the RN' makes, i'm not sure how it is you draw that conclusion. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #197

who are you kidding? $500 a month pension & he's in the 'upper middle class'? HiPointDem Jul 2013 #140

you are doing far better than average hfojvt Jul 2013 #184

he didn't 'retire at 55'. he lost his fucking job & had his pension stolen. try reading the article HiPointDem Jul 2013 #188

you might try taking your own expletive advice hfojvt Jul 2013 #195

he wasn't in the upper-middle-class when he was working & he isn't in the upper middle class HiPointDem Jul 2013 #196

I guess if I ran out of facts hfojvt Jul 2013 #215

There's no perspective via which a bakery worker is upper-middle class. Even if he's married HiPointDem Jul 2013 #216

When I was in high school, minimum wage was $1.65 an hour KansDem Jul 2013 #11

It's definitely not just you. a la izquierda Jul 2013 #19

+1 HiPointDem Jul 2013 #145

Apparently... Pelican Jul 2013 #13

And that's how it starts...the whole idea behind what's happened to our middle class. maddiemom Jul 2013 #53

We need to raise the minimum wage, and establish a guaranteed mimimum income for those who reformist2 Jul 2013 #17

Forklifts can be damn dangerous. Shouldn't people controlling dangerous machines make a little more tclambert Jul 2013 #22

because technology is rapidly changing this field also ceonupe Jul 2013 #27

When you compare US wages to those in other countries, do you compare healthcare costs too? Demit Jul 2013 #59

Reads like Ayn Rand Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #65

stinks like Ayn Rand too frylock Jul 2013 #117

wage disparity 90-percent Jul 2013 #30

After 22 years and only making $16.53 an hour? SHRED Jul 2013 #31

You would be hard pressed to find a job that offers better pay Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #34

Now yes however... SHRED Jul 2013 #35

gad. my ski bum son is making almost $16 and hour and benefits cali Jul 2013 #47

If he can chef in "an upscale market," he's far from a ski bum. A lot of parents maddiemom Jul 2013 #57

neither humorous or not. just pointing out my shock cali Jul 2013 #64

Good for both of you. My brother and sister-in-law were upset that my nephew maddiemom Jul 2013 #101

It isn't much money at all. n/t duffyduff Jul 2013 #85

by who? it's <$3 above federal minimum wage. 'really good pay' my ass. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #147

Ever been to Emporia? wercal Jul 2013 #39

Slight quibble: The companies do not go to Somalia to find workers KamaAina Jul 2013 #113

I'm going to quibble back wercal Jul 2013 #124

The one post I saw on the subject KamaAina Jul 2013 #126

here comes the new boss, worse than the old boss dembotoz Jul 2013 #54

he should have his unemployment revoked rdking647 Jul 2013 #55

care to explain the worker's culpability in all this? frylock Jul 2013 #118

1 union refuses to cut rdking647 Jul 2013 #164

the unions had already made several concessions leading up to this.. frylock Jul 2013 #171

it doesnt amtter what the boss had done in the past. rdking647 Jul 2013 #180

in addition hostess was losing 100m a year rdking647 Jul 2013 #181

bullshit. hostess increased their execs' pay while they were supposedly 'bankrupt'. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #217

Rd, when you don't know about something, but post as if you do, Mc Mike Jul 2013 #205

my feeling is that UE rdking647 Jul 2013 #214

Unemployment Compensation is an Insurance Program. Mc Mike Jul 2013 #220

welcome to post -citizens united Democratic Party dtom67 Jul 2013 #61

yes, and I'm dismayed as hell to see so much anti-labor shit on DU cali Jul 2013 #66

this is how it's done... Javaman Jul 2013 #67

+1 pinboy3niner Jul 2013 #70

your whole post should be on billboards all over the US. Starry Messenger Jul 2013 #97

big kr. happening in my town. I hate the fucks that are doing this, not only to this country, but HiPointDem Jul 2013 #152

Australia. Bog cleaner. $22+ per hour with allowances. 4 weeks anual leave. TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #73

It worked. Atman Jul 2013 #76

Thought provoking thread tiredtoo Jul 2013 #81

It appears that the responses to this story are either crim son Jul 2013 #89

all right, poke has been taken care of tiredtoo Jul 2013 #90

It can be a risk to eat food made by angry employees. Good luck to those willing to do so. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #92

They're changing our national anthem to "Serfin' USA". Fuddnik Jul 2013 #95

This article reads like the forklift operators are acting like ungrateful children. Apophis Jul 2013 #107

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Jul 2013 #129

Wait...what? Apophis Jul 2013 #139

Sorry I thought you were expressing your opinion about the workers. I'm sorry HangOnKids Jul 2013 #142

No worries. Apophis Jul 2013 #178

So a man gives 22 years of his life to a company SomethingFishy Jul 2013 #109

First, $16 an hour is huge bucks in many parts of the country, and $11 an hour is nice as well... Demo_Chris Jul 2013 #112

So your plan is just.. fuck everybody... SomethingFishy Jul 2013 #114

what's your rate of pay? frylock Jul 2013 #119

I am self employed, so it varies wildly, but I am poor. nt Demo_Chris Jul 2013 #133

Executive pay is doing just fine. Never better leftstreet Jul 2013 #122

I don't. nt Demo_Chris Jul 2013 #135

You're the one mocking this guy for not being happy about being paid shit. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #172

No, I am mocking the people here who don't get it. nt Demo_Chris Jul 2013 #173

But you're the one who doesn't get it. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #189

I live in one of the cheapest parts of the country and 16 an hour is not much. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #144

You're right, but it is MORE than virtually any of America's top ten employers pay Demo_Chris Jul 2013 #155

Your argument is basically "Hey it's terrible but there's nothing better so suck it up." Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #170

$33K is 'big bucks' somewhere in the US? where the hell is that, please? HiPointDem Jul 2013 #159

What "real world" are you living in where 11/hr is "nice"? RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #160

The one we live in. But hey, I guess there's no problem then.... Demo_Chris Jul 2013 #163

The fact that it can get even worse doesn't mean we have to pretend 11/hr is 'nice' RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #168

If the posters who say such things are being serious, I am shocked and amazed. reformist2 Jul 2013 #210

$11/hr for an experienced tradesman is an insult anywhere in the US or Canada. (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2013 #161

Five people in this thread alone defending the slow asphyxiation of the middle class. LanternWaste Jul 2013 #123

Yeah but 16 dollars an hour is a King's ransom... Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #148

it's disgusting. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #153

it's disgusting. one is retired so i guess the attitude is fuck you, i got mine. frylock Jul 2013 #182

It is appalling. liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #212

kr HiPointDem Jul 2013 #127

Capitalism at work. RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #157

Millions of people are working for half what they used to make. limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #158

another company gets away with suppressing wages and we're suppose to believe the liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #165

K&R liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #169

Another shameless plug here. tiredtoo Jul 2013 #175

Isn't $11 an hour better than being unemployed michigandem58 Jul 2013 #183

From a strictly financial point of view $11 an hour may be better then being unemployed tiredtoo Jul 2013 #185

Thank you for posting arely staircase Jul 2013 #186

+1, nt. Mc Mike Jul 2013 #204