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In reply to the discussion: I COMPLETELY support Snowden. [View all]gholtron
(376 posts)162. The problem with Snowden is
His inconsistence words and then actions. For example. In the video he made Before he left Hong Kong he said the following.
I dont want to live in a world where everything that I say, everything I do, everyone I talk to, every expression of creativity or love or friendship is recorded.
He then tried to apply for asylum in the very countries that continually do that. To give you an example, he applied for asylum in Russia, and China. Are you going to tell me that they don't spy on their people? Well you might argue that there is no evidence of that and that's fair. But he also applied for asylum in Germany in which he said that the N.S.A is spying on Germany. The Germans turned him down for his request for asylum. Then he released the following.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nsa-in-bed-with-german-intelligence-says-us-whistleblower-edward-snowden--and-gchq-operates-a-full-take-data-monitoring-system-8693793.html
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/edward-snowden-accuses-germany-of-aiding-nsa-in-spying-efforts-a-909847.html
Also from the video interview he said the following.
I think the governments going to say Ive committed grave crimes and violated the espionage act and aided our enemies in making us aware of these systems.
Well, what do you call it when you take or more appropriately Steal government computers with Top Secret Classified information on it and is was capable of connecting with classified government servers and flee to a Communist Country and have conversations with that government's official?
But here's the thing that bothers me the most about him. He said that the did this because HE determined that the people should decide on whether collection of records is appropriate? He didn't actually say that the NSA was breaking the law at least I didn't hear it. In fact, the documents that he took also contained Rules and Procedures in which the NSA has to follow to obtain a FISA warrant to collect such public data which is meta data. In other words the rules and procedures were written to PROTECT the privacy and the 4th Amendments of each American. He did NOT show any evidence that any laws were broken. He was just opposed of having meta data collected. The NSA is an intelligent agency. Like many other country, they have to analyze information. They are charged to keeping us safe. We may not like the methods but there isn't any proof that any laws were broken. You had oversight from the intelligence committee of Congress. You have the courts involved in issuing warrants. The the collection of data was meta data which is NOT a violation of the 4th amendment because we don't own the meta data. He knows that or should know that if he is as intelligent as everyone makes him out to be. Who knows what kind of top secret information he took and what the Russians and Chinese know? All this just because he didn't like it.
two other quotes .
from the video:
I joined the intelligence community when I was very young and I believed in the nobility of our intentions to free oppressed people overseas.
from his interview with the South China Morning Post:
Edward Snowden, the former government contractor who leaked information on the National Security Agency's surveillance programs, says he sought the job with Booz Allen Hamilton to gather evidence on the agency's data collection networks.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/24/edward-snowden-booz-allen-hamilton_n_3491203.html
Again whistleblowers show evidence of law breaking and not showing the world what YOU don't like.
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Fair enough. I can't say much about him because I'm only about 85% convinced he exists at this point
Recursion
Jul 2013
#10
No, he had direct contact with a reporter from a Hong Kong newspaper, the South China
totodeinhere
Jul 2013
#54
Booz Allen Hamilton confirmed he worked for them; the US government put out arrest warrants
muriel_volestrangler
Jul 2013
#144
It wasn't, but the defenders of the Surveillance state made it about him, so now they
sabrina 1
Jul 2013
#106
I keep seeing Dorothy's dog pulling away the curtain of the Great and Powerful Oz.
Gregorian
Jul 2013
#7
This will be a good bookmark for when Ed goes down. Get the whole Fan Club in one spot.
MjolnirTime
Jul 2013
#23
You said: "If the Powerpoint was inaccurate about the 'direct' access, it was not his doing."
ProSense
Jul 2013
#69
"He invented most his claims", yet other countries are upset and Obama is willing to discuss.......
Logical
Jul 2013
#31
Yes, it is a sign of other things than opportunism. You think all other countries are craven
muriel_volestrangler
Jul 2013
#145
Leakers are leakers when they can prove with tangible evidence what they claim is true.
Amonester
Jul 2013
#58
USSC has not ruled on FISA's use of the "special needs" provision to justify universal data mining
NineNightsHanging
Jul 2013
#98
"Right" & "legal" are two different things. You said that FISA is illegal when in fact it IS legal.
baldguy
Jul 2013
#105
I think he is lying about the direct access because he can brag all he wants
Amonester
Jul 2013
#103
They might have direct access, but they now have very strict rules to abide to
Amonester
Jul 2013
#130
Are you kidding? Those people can go home at night. Snowden took a giant hit for his country.
Gregorian
Jul 2013
#88
I questioned his motives (who are his customers, who is paying his way, etc.) and was called a
AlinPA
Jul 2013
#43
good point..heroic action of civil disobedience..and great op, i feel the same way
xiamiam
Jul 2013
#114
At the VERY VERY LEAST he has forced a discussion on an issue that is central to our ability to
Douglas Carpenter
Jul 2013
#95
A lot of Liberals are DESPERATE for a hero,...but they're also fickle....
Spitfire of ATJ
Jul 2013
#137
Naw,...Obama was a fling for them but they don't want to destroy him....
Spitfire of ATJ
Jul 2013
#174
I guess you are arguing some points...NSA collection of info isn't in question
Sheepshank
Jul 2013
#204
"Misspeak" refers to an accidental choice of words..also for which there is no evidence n/t
Sheepshank
Jul 2013
#217
Enthusiastic K&R! I think Snowden is an American hero, a modern day Paul Revere
quinnox
Jul 2013
#193
I completely support Snowden coming back to the US to explain everything in a public and open....
marble falls
Jul 2013
#194