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HardTimes99

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184. Oh, please, your sophistry is quite unbecoming. The U.N.'s

Tue Jul 9, 2013, 10:33 AM

Jul 2013

rapporteur on human rights, Juan Mendez, called Manning's pre-trial conditions 'torture.' Was Commander in Chief Obama "following the law" there, sport? Maybe the 'law of the jungle.'

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Why do people keep bringing up the treatment of Manning in a military prison re: Snowden? [View all] Recursion Jul 2013 OP

I agree, Manning's treatment was awful and IMO constituted torture Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #1

I guess you will consider examples below as perfectly alright? See below: idwiyo Jul 2013 #25

Don't forget that Sibel Edmonds is still gagged. reusrename Jul 2013 #123

+1000 Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #178

Manning was treated cruelly and inhumanely to set an example MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #2

You think the president was personally involved? hack89 Jul 2013 #4

At the least, he could have stopped it MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #7

I wonder if Manny has links to some documentation which backs up his accusation. Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #8

Link to the military reporting to the President? MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #13

No Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #20

The President couldn't call to say "cut the shit"? MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #22

Where's your evidence of complicity? Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #26

Perhaps you should look up the word "complicit" nm MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #38

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #187

Umm. except for the obvious fact that SNOWDEN IS NOT IN THE MILITARY Recursion Jul 2013 #6

Can Snowden be put into solitary confinement? MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #11

The conditions of his confinement are subject to Federal prison regulations Recursion Jul 2013 #15

So the answer is "yes, he can be put in solitary confinement for the rest of his life" MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #19

yes G_j Jul 2013 #31

If he were convicted and sentenced to life in prison, and the prison regulations allowed that Recursion Jul 2013 #43

Yes, despite the fact that the MILITARY'S OWN PSYCHIATRIST said he wasn't a suicide risk! n/t markpkessinger Jul 2013 #40

Actually, there were several psychiatrists involved, including one who not long before struggle4progress Jul 2013 #49

he'll get what he deserves. MjolnirTime Jul 2013 #27

Bullshit. He was treated that way by military personnel because they viewed him JaneyVee Jul 2013 #28

Who, exactly, is the commander in chief, the top dog, the head honcho, of the military? ret5hd Jul 2013 #77

So will there be any courts-martial for that gross violation of human rights HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #183

They need to excuse the assholes treason. Obama is guilty of following the law uponit7771 Jul 2013 #3

Oh, please, your sophistry is quite unbecoming. The U.N.'s HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #184

NDAA RobertEarl Jul 2013 #5

The proposed 2014 NDAA is not law Recursion Jul 2013 #9

Snowden will never go to jail RobertEarl Jul 2013 #18

" pardon Snowden and establish an American holiday in his name" dionysus Jul 2013 #41

if obama is "smart" arely staircase Jul 2013 #96

NDAA/indefinite detention is in effect now. woo me with science Jul 2013 #33

Well, the 2012 version only applies to persons identified as members of Al Qaeda Recursion Jul 2013 #94

Shame on you for these dishonest posts. woo me with science Jul 2013 #105

I pasted the law's text in this thread Recursion Jul 2013 #106

Statement by the President on H.R. 1540 (December 31, 2011) struggle4progress Jul 2013 #126

Why don't you find in the NDAA the exact section that you think could be used struggle4progress Jul 2013 #50

You asking me to educate you? Struggler RobertEarl Jul 2013 #55

I'd like to see that section too Recursion Jul 2013 #56

You are ignorant about the law? RobertEarl Jul 2013 #59

No, I'm not; I'm calling "bullshit" on you Recursion Jul 2013 #60

Yes, you are. RobertEarl Jul 2013 #63

So, you can't find the section? Recursion Jul 2013 #66

Section 1022, I think RobertEarl Jul 2013 #69

Section 1022 of? Recursion Jul 2013 #70

The bill was hundreds of pages long. I suspect the poster never bothered to read struggle4progress Jul 2013 #86

You suspect? RobertEarl Jul 2013 #91

Here's section 1022 of the 2012 NDAA Recursion Jul 2013 #89

Stop spreading disinformation. Section 1021 outlines indefinite detention, not 1022. woo me with science Jul 2013 #113

Robert Earl said 1022; take it up with him Recursion Jul 2013 #114

Why do you keep posting text that isn't in section 1021 or 1022? Recursion Jul 2013 #120

Stop trying to spread disinformation. woo me with science Jul 2013 #130

You know "belligerent act" has an actual legal meaning, right? Recursion Jul 2013 #132

You have repeatedly thrown out disinformation in this thread, woo me with science Jul 2013 #139

You're the one claiming there's some law allowing the indefinite detention of US Citizens Recursion Jul 2013 #153

(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.�The requirement to detain a person in military custody Demit Jul 2013 #177

Don't be coy: Supporting your claim is your task, not mine. struggle4progress Jul 2013 #76

I do not support your ignorance, correct, but RobertEarl Jul 2013 #83

It's easy to look up, and you're completely full of it Recursion Jul 2013 #88

Can you back that up? RobertEarl Jul 2013 #98

I pasted the text upthread Recursion Jul 2013 #100

President decides RobertEarl Jul 2013 #104

Stop spreading disinformation. No. 1021 is for indefinite detention, woo me with science Jul 2013 #111

That's exactly what I posted, only I didn't make stuff up about it like you did Recursion Jul 2013 #112

No, you are posting 1022. woo me with science Jul 2013 #115

And then I posted 1021 which is an even worse law for you Recursion Jul 2013 #117

Try again; 1021 is even worse for your argument than 1022 Recursion Jul 2013 #116

No, it does not clearly exempt Americans. woo me with science Jul 2013 #121

I have pasted the text 3 times. IT SPECFICIALLY EXEMPTS US CITIZENS Recursion Jul 2013 #124

Wrong, and you know it. woo me with science Jul 2013 #127

So what law allows the indefinite detention of US citizens, then? Recursion Jul 2013 #128

Apparently you forgot about Jose Padilla davidn3600 Jul 2013 #129

My understanding is the law was violated in Padilla's case Recursion Jul 2013 #131

Did you actually just write that? woo me with science Jul 2013 #140

Yes. You're claiming there is some law that allows the indefinite detention of US citizens Recursion Jul 2013 #141

It's like arguing in Wonderland. woo me with science Jul 2013 #170

So, we're agreed no law allows for the indefinite detention of US citizens? Great. Recursion Jul 2013 #171

No, the point is that Americans are not clearly exempted from indefinite detention, woo me with science Jul 2013 #173

So, Section 1021 turned up empty for you, and now you're just saying there's a generic "danger"? Recursion Jul 2013 #174

You're repeating yourself now, woo me with science Jul 2013 #175

Hmmm shenmue Jul 2013 #10

Well, Snowden can always end in Gitmo. Not sure if I would consider THAT an improvement over idwiyo Jul 2013 #12

No, he can't Recursion Jul 2013 #16

Yes. What he is most likely will end up in is a solitary confinement, not much better than Gitmo. idwiyo Jul 2013 #34

It's highly doubtful Snowden would be sent Gitmo. Scurrilous Jul 2013 #30

I know. It will be a solitary more likely and not better than what Manning had to go though. idwiyo Jul 2013 #35

Yeah and spying/records were for foreigners too... The Straight Story Jul 2013 #46

How do you know he won't end up in a military prison? Cleita Jul 2013 #14

Because that would be illegal? Recursion Jul 2013 #17

Since when is doing things that are illegal an obstacle these days? Cleita Jul 2013 #21

Where in the UCMJ is it legal magellan Jul 2013 #39

RCM 304 and 305 Recursion Jul 2013 #44

Solitary confinement? magellan Jul 2013 #45

He was in solitary while he was on suicide watch. This is a problem with military prisons in general Recursion Jul 2013 #48

He wasn't suicidal when they put him on "suicide watch" magellan Jul 2013 #51

There were multiple suggestions of suicidal intent: struggle4progress Jul 2013 #101

Let me ask you something magellan Jul 2013 #107

Did you actually ever read what Juan Mendez wrote? In the end, struggle4progress Jul 2013 #122

I too am troubled that his request for a private unmonitored interview was denied Recursion Jul 2013 #125

Yes I did. magellan Jul 2013 #182

hmmm struggle4progress Jul 2013 #186

You cannot be serious Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #23

Because in today's political climate nothing seems to be impossible. Cleita Jul 2013 #24

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #188

I also think that Manning is getting a raw deal. It was he who brought the attention southernyankeebelle Jul 2013 #29

Sigh. He released a video that confirmed the military's finding that the attack was within the R.O.E Recursion Jul 2013 #54

I don't know, how many? sigh southernyankeebelle Jul 2013 #181

Snowden ProSense Jul 2013 #32

... idwiyo Jul 2013 #37

Hee hee. Funny!!! dkf Jul 2013 #57

Can't help but laugh at "Snowden would likely have been charged and released on bail". idwiyo Jul 2013 #64

Why? It's how the law stands Recursion Jul 2013 #65

Hahahahaha!!!!!! dkf Jul 2013 #71

Seriously, what makes you think the law wouldn't apply to Snowden? Recursion Jul 2013 #72

Because when you go to the effort of keeping secret decisions based on secret laws made by secret dkf Jul 2013 #79

Well, that's a theory, but you're completely making stuff up Recursion Jul 2013 #87

There is no protective self interest involved in those cases. dkf Jul 2013 #95

... idwiyo Jul 2013 #73

Ummm... that's false Recursion Jul 2013 #74

Ummm... you are wrong but don't let it destroy your illusionary world. idwiyo Jul 2013 #80

Why are the same posters howling for Snowden-skin souveniers Scootaloo Jul 2013 #176

That's why I can't help but laugh at complete absurdity and hypocrisy of their posts. idwiyo Jul 2013 #180

If one agency of the government (i.e., the military) markpkessinger Jul 2013 #36

+1. n/t winter is coming Jul 2013 #42

Which part of the UCMJ was violated with Manning? Recursion Jul 2013 #75

I'll have to look up the specific citation . . . markpkessinger Jul 2013 #78

That's covered in R.C.M. 304 and 305, if that helps (nt) Recursion Jul 2013 #84

Actually, I was referring to . . . markpkessinger Jul 2013 #90

Are you saying Manning was subject to punishment other than confinement? Recursion Jul 2013 #92

Being held in solitary confinement for months on end . . . markpkessinger Jul 2013 #97

Those are allowed by the rules of military prisons. Those rules should probaby be changed Recursion Jul 2013 #99

Manning received the treatment he received . . . markpkessinger Jul 2013 #108

No Recursion Jul 2013 #109

Nor does denying it . . . markpkessinger Jul 2013 #110

They were drugging him too Hydra Jul 2013 #118

What drugs did they give him? Recursion Jul 2013 #119

We don't know Hydra Jul 2013 #133

Well hell, we don't know that they didn't download his brain into a giant computer Recursion Jul 2013 #134

Well, like I said, I'm probably wasting my time here Hydra Jul 2013 #136

*I've* called them out for what they were doing Recursion Jul 2013 #142

Civilian prisons can be terrible places too. BlueCheese Jul 2013 #47

What makes you think the US military would not claim him? Bonobo Jul 2013 #52

Wow Recursion Jul 2013 #53

Really? The SOS calling him a traitor means nothing? Bonobo Jul 2013 #143

It doesn't make him an enemy combatant Recursion Jul 2013 #144

True. So let's make another term up. Bonobo Jul 2013 #145

That would be against the law Recursion Jul 2013 #147

Did Jose Padilla ever engage in combat? nt Bonobo Jul 2013 #149

As I've said several times, his treatment was found to be illegal by a court Recursion Jul 2013 #151

You said that Snowden could not be declared an enemy combatant. Bonobo Jul 2013 #155

No, the attempt to charge Padilla as an enemy combatant failed Recursion Jul 2013 #156

He was grabbed and tortured as an "enemy combatant". Bonobo Jul 2013 #159

And that was ruled illegal by a court Recursion Jul 2013 #160

I'm not. Bonobo Jul 2013 #163

They attempted a stretchy interpretation on a topic with no case law Recursion Jul 2013 #165

Agree to disagree Bonobo Jul 2013 #167

Jose Padilla also never engaged in combat. Bonobo Jul 2013 #148

And a judge held the law was broken, and came very close to setting him free Recursion Jul 2013 #150

"Very close". Bonobo Jul 2013 #152

He's not in a military prison. What are you talking about? Recursion Jul 2013 #154

You;re right. He was only tortured in military prison for 3 years. nt Bonobo Jul 2013 #157

Yes, and he sought and obtained relief from the courts Recursion Jul 2013 #158

So the threat is real. Bonobo Jul 2013 #161

No, that's established case law now. There wasn't case law on this before Padilla Recursion Jul 2013 #162

Your argument is persuasive unless it would be your ass on the rack. nt Bonobo Jul 2013 #164

*shrug* Like I said, I can think of a million ways the government could screw us if it ignored law Recursion Jul 2013 #166

The point is that if it was your ass and it had been done in the past... Bonobo Jul 2013 #168

Dramatic effect jberryhill Jul 2013 #58

They don't know or understand the difference treestar Jul 2013 #61

Because the US is a coutnry that does avebury Jul 2013 #62

Because Obama is a power-mad dictator who likes to murder his enemies bare-handed. baldguy Jul 2013 #67

Not because Snowden could end up in a military prison. Igel Jul 2013 #68

Does that mean you do not believe if caught, they might not consider tossing him in a Drew Richards Jul 2013 #81

Correct, I think that kind of talk is batshit insane craziness (nt) Recursion Jul 2013 #85

Well I will have to go look it up but if he is possibly charged with treason I believe his Drew Richards Jul 2013 #102

He's not charged with treason Recursion Jul 2013 #103

Not to sound like a complete conspiracy nut but given our recent use of things like rendition Arcanetrance Jul 2013 #82

He will have all the rights and protections any accused federal felon has. arely staircase Jul 2013 #93

It doesn't even matter RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #135

Yeah, after all there's no chance of a civilian ending up in a military prison without trial... NuclearDem Jul 2013 #137

Yup. Bonobo Jul 2013 #146

As a person who has family and friends in prison. Bradley Manning was not tortured any more bravenak Jul 2013 #138

You are 100% correct. Instead he can be charged under a whole suite of SECRET laws, we, he AND... TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #169

And your basis for this fantasy is... ? (nt) Recursion Jul 2013 #172

A little Carribean vacation resort known as Gitmo. Numerous reports on prisoner treatment... TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #179

Because torture is as American as cherry pie (with apologies to HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #185