General Discussion

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)

54. In fairness, re: Obama and Reagan

Tue Jul 9, 2013, 11:28 AM

Jul 2013

Reagan really did nothing to cause the 1981-2 recession, or to fix it. His tax cuts increased the deficit, which had a modest stimulative effect handicapped by the fact that tax cuts for the rich are terrible stimulus.

But the Reagan recession was intentionally induced by Paul Volker and intentionally repaired by Paul Volcker through an incredible increase in interest rates, and when that cracked the economy, cutting the rates back down again.

Such a repair was mathematically impossible in 2008-9 because the collapse was not brought on intentionally through raising rates and thus the high interest rates were not there to be cut.

2008-9 was a bubble-burst event in a low interest rate environment and could only have been fixed by fiscal (rather than monetary) stimulus of a level that economically center-right figures in both parties (including Obama) considered unthinkable

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Where the Hell Is the Outrage? [View all] xchrom Jul 2013 OP

I don't understand it, either. randome Jul 2013 #1

I think it has a LOT to do with Overwhelm. it's impossible to fight BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2013 #69

Yeah. Complexity hides responsibility. randome Jul 2013 #74

yes! it's a very good thing! BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2013 #91

Thanks! randome Jul 2013 #148

You familiar with Seligman's work on learned helplessness? Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #143

And our money is stolen and used for war and increasing economic disparity. Bonobo Jul 2013 #2

If I were young I would do as you did. Smart move but sad that you had to snappyturtle Jul 2013 #46

Yes, it was a little sad. Bonobo Jul 2013 #47

In time may you find peace in your wisdom. I've lived in a number of U.S. snappyturtle Jul 2013 #60

Thank you. Bonobo Jul 2013 #64

That's been my question. WTH with the damn COMPLACENCY? n/t Triana Jul 2013 #3

Sure, try working two (or three) minimum wage jobs just so you xtraxritical Jul 2013 #95

That's exactly what the Robber Barons want - to keep people desperate Triana Jul 2013 #123

I was just thinking that... MrsBrady Jul 2013 #170

You are Rebl Jul 2013 #175

Maybe too many people are on 'Meds' cprise Jul 2013 #135

One almost needs anti-depressants to live in this society at this point in time... ReRe Jul 2013 #144

Suggestions? Doctor_J Jul 2013 #151

As long as people have their DOC they won't get riled up, about much of anything. Puzzledtraveller Jul 2013 #4

Hopium is one hell of a drug. kenny blankenship Jul 2013 #56

What does your post mean? xtraxritical Jul 2013 #96

DOC usually = Drug of Choice. /nt Dragonfli Jul 2013 #134

Hey thanks, I learned how to write properly in public school. xtraxritical Jul 2013 #165

As did I being the old fart that I am, luckily I have nieces and nephews that can write a sonnet Dragonfli Jul 2013 #169

A happy family! xtraxritical Jul 2013 #191

Unemployment is NOT "stalled at record levels" tridim Jul 2013 #5

I don't agree with "record" but it is stalled cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #7

No, it's falling and has been for years. tridim Jul 2013 #8

The most meaningful measure of unemployment, the U-6, is at 14.3, down just a few % byeya Jul 2013 #11

This message was self-deleted by its author AlbertCat Jul 2013 #31

Oh give me a break. The U-6 argument is a right wing distraction. Are you comparing U-6 to what okaawhatever Jul 2013 #107

Utter foolishness on your part. Involuntary part time workers increased by over 300,000 and that's byeya Jul 2013 #119

Whatever makes you happy to believe cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #15

I believe the truth. tridim Jul 2013 #18

Well, here's a heaping bowlful of truth for you cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #25

Looks like record levels to me. Fuddnik Jul 2013 #27

I disagree with "record" cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #37

According to the Department of Labor, Data started before WWI, became standard in 1940 happyslug Jul 2013 #71

Very informative post. Thanks. I was referring to a cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #92

Why are you pushing a meme that only tea baggers and right wingers push? Why are you here if okaawhatever Jul 2013 #109

This message was self-deleted by its author cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #125

yeah, students, military & old people all happened right in 2008. uh-huh. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #128

Your "numbers" and "evidence" mean nothing to that crowd MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #33

I got kicked out o the BOG for posting facts Dragonfli Jul 2013 #87

Who among us hasn't been booted from the BOG for posting facts? MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #93

That will do it. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #104

+1 area51 Jul 2013 #186

Say it isn't so Joe, say it isn't so. zeemike Jul 2013 #43

Here's some more truth for ya'... jtuck004 Jul 2013 #97

Right now, 49 cents out of very dollar of profit made in USA truedelphi Jul 2013 #124

HERE - get some REAL facts Skittles Jul 2013 #154

it's very bad --Long-Term Unemployment Is Turning Jobless Into Pariahs xchrom Jul 2013 #10

Yes. Some employers apparently believe their workers can be infected by the cronic depression AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #106

Yes, the *fake* unemployment numbers are looking better MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #12

...Says the person who is demonstrably wrong about everything. tridim Jul 2013 #20

You are a liar. Plain and simple. MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #23

Every prediction in every post you've ever made on DU has been wrong. tridim Jul 2013 #24

Liar, liar, liar. MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #26

+1000 Manny some people have drunk so much of the gov't issued snappyturtle Jul 2013 #52

Thats not fair Manny, since you've cut down on eating kittens and beating your wife you've improved Dragonfli Jul 2013 #138

Your therapist needs her license revoked. You're too far from a reality-based existence to byeya Jul 2013 #28

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim zeemike Jul 2013 #48

Stewey, don't be a small, dim, spewer of derp. Dayum! BornLooser Jul 2013 #53

"Demonstrably wrong about everything" Maedhros Jul 2013 #98

Everything he predicts is wrong. Search "MannyGoldstein" for proof. tridim Jul 2013 #111

Still not demonstrated that Manny is wrong about "everything" Maedhros Jul 2013 #113

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #116

Then attack his points, not his person [n/t] Maedhros Jul 2013 #118

I do attack his points, a lot. tridim Jul 2013 #129

That's just another ad hominem Maedhros Jul 2013 #142

Tridim pees his pants because I said so! just search yourself for proof of my claim! Dragonfli Jul 2013 #139

He has a point (sort of) RE: the Chained CPI Maedhros Jul 2013 #140

Not really, in all fairness Manny never claimed the chained CPI wa law as Tridim dishonestly implies Dragonfli Jul 2013 #146

I misrepresented Manny inadvertently. Maedhros Jul 2013 #147

The only reason they didn't take that gift wrapped dream package for them was Dragonfli Jul 2013 #152

Liar, liar, liar. MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #115

Chained CPI is not law, you were wrong. As always, third-way manny. nt tridim Jul 2013 #117

Liar, liar, liar. MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #126

Unemployment has been falling consistently and steadily since Obama took office. AlbertCat Jul 2013 #34

So you want to give the Republicans credit? tridim Jul 2013 #40

So you want to give the Republicans credit? AlbertCat Jul 2013 #67

The hollowing out of the job market makes "unemployment" a poor metric, without winter is coming Jul 2013 #99

Yes. Just last month 300,000 permanent jobs turned into temp jobs w/o byeya Jul 2013 #102

Dude. Phlem Jul 2013 #100

I also work in the tech industry and it is booming. tridim Jul 2013 #110

IT lost 850,000 jobs over the last decade. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #131

No I'm sitting on my ass Phlem Jul 2013 #171

Oh, man Doctor_J Jul 2013 #153

Speaking of fast food Phlem Jul 2013 #182

The Oligarchs have orchestrated this masterfully. Thru Corp-Media they have rhett o rick Jul 2013 #6

Amen, Rick. A democrat in office has been the perfect way to continue destructive policies Nay Jul 2013 #50

That why I call them "Democrats" with the quotes duffyduff Jul 2013 #83

Many are deeply entrenched in furthering the corporate state. raouldukelives Jul 2013 #59

This: CrispyQ Jul 2013 #80

Economics affects everybody. Social issues or identity politics benefits a few. duffyduff Jul 2013 #86

People need to ask the nasty question: Who really WAS backing Obama in the first place duffyduff Jul 2013 #81

I think Bill Clinton used Wall Street to replace the oil companies as the Democrat's cash byeya Jul 2013 #103

Several excellent comments at the link address the apathy in the US: OneGrassRoot Jul 2013 #9

I think it's in part because of the grip of money on elections. mahina Jul 2013 #55

I think it's FULLY due to money controlling our government. RiverLover Jul 2013 #187

I agree, but mahina Jul 2013 #192

We busted our tails to elect a progressive governor mahina Jul 2013 #193

Anybody who believes in science CrispyQ Jul 2013 #89

The alienation of Americans is straight out of certain 19th century economists who continue byeya Jul 2013 #13

Which ones? mahina Jul 2013 #57

Once again activists are astounded that people aren't as angry as they "should" be Recursion Jul 2013 #14

When people have lost for many years, they MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #16

Yes marions ghost Jul 2013 #22

+ + byeya Jul 2013 #30

Well, you really can't win by saying stupid things like Obama = "Sneaky Version of Reagan" tridim Jul 2013 #38

Reagan got out of a severe recession through Keynsian pump priming MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #45

In fairness, re: Obama and Reagan cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #54

I was vaguely aware of that history MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #94

Maybe you are always wrong because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. tridim Jul 2013 #114

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #127

Reagan-Volker recession was deliberately induced via interest rates. No particular pump-priming HiPointDem Jul 2013 #133

Some of us would rather 'feel sick'... CanSocDem Jul 2013 #17

Divide and rule works so well malaise Jul 2013 #19

What are you talking about? daleanime Jul 2013 #21

Here's one possible explanation from 2001: Lydia Leftcoast Jul 2013 #29

Sad but true. ctsnowman Jul 2013 #82

When you get down and dirty with those hovering near the bottom third of the ladder democrank Jul 2013 #32

^^ THIS ^^ n/t OneGrassRoot Jul 2013 #62

"People from the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party should take control of a new message and winter is coming Jul 2013 #101

This is true. & They are staying out of the political arena, some of them because they are patrice Jul 2013 #137

The Zagreb Summit: For the past seven years leftists have come together for up to 2 weeks byeya Jul 2013 #35

And that is the answer to our problems. zeemike Jul 2013 #51

Just Had This Discussion This AM ChiciB1 Jul 2013 #36

Thanks for keeping up the struggle!! byeya Jul 2013 #41

Hate To Say It Out Loud ChiciB1 Jul 2013 #58

.... OneGrassRoot Jul 2013 #63

I know how you feel... n/t PasadenaTrudy Jul 2013 #108

2010 election destroyed any chance of Govt helping the people. JaneyVee Jul 2013 #39

The writer is upset that people aren't outraged? treestar Jul 2013 #42

The rage isn't targeted at challenging the corporote-controlled government, though. Arugula Latte Jul 2013 #181

Pharmaceutical control. nt valerief Jul 2013 #44

Chemtrails too! Chemtrails! agent46 Jul 2013 #72

I too feel backed up in a corner SmittynMo Jul 2013 #49

Republicans make the government go broke then say "The country is broke".... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #61

In my opinion it's party because of scapegoating Babel_17 Jul 2013 #65

This is a good question LakeErieLiberal Jul 2013 #66

We're half awake in a fake empire... adirondacker Jul 2013 #68

This is a seriously good question. ananda Jul 2013 #70

We are too busy sucking on our pacifiers like television and the internet. The rest of the world is world wide wally Jul 2013 #73

It is amazing how Americans are willing to privately suffer. pa28 Jul 2013 #75

They brutally beat the shit out of OWS. MrSlayer Jul 2013 #76

Here in Hell is the outrage: WOW! Young Woman Has EPIC Rant in TX Abortion Hearings..... DreamGypsy Jul 2013 #77

I think the outrage is here, it's just not focused. raindaddy Jul 2013 #78

I find it just below the surface, bubbling away like swamp gas Warpy Jul 2013 #79

ITA.... AnneD Jul 2013 #168

I was outraged in 2000. LWolf Jul 2013 #84

Too many people are still too comfortable. CrispyQ Jul 2013 #85

It's Stockholm Syndrome. Lint Head Jul 2013 #88

I think there ctsnowman Jul 2013 #90

Excellent post. JEB Jul 2013 #105

K &R (n/t) bread_and_roses Jul 2013 #112

because there no target Locrian Jul 2013 #120

It turns out that the opium of the masses is grantcart Jul 2013 #121

Its one aspect of consumerism, post-1960s cprise Jul 2013 #149

Boomers did NOT "vote Reagan into office" marions ghost Jul 2013 #179

Take a look at how Boomers voted in the last 3 cycles cprise Jul 2013 #184

I have been trying to start some outrage here for over a year and..... Hotler Jul 2013 #122

People feel trapped every way you think of protesting has a dead end. We are being trublu992 Jul 2013 #130

Co-operatives! . . . but we're too busy making everything about Obama. nt patrice Jul 2013 #141

OMG I've been researching and reading about them forever I didn't think anyone trublu992 Jul 2013 #159

I'm on the fringes of one here. Just started helping them a little. I will learn. patrice Jul 2013 #160

Kokua Market is a co op, and it keeps us all fed. mahina Jul 2013 #163

du rec. Loooove it. great find. nt limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #132

It's right next to the drama-queening. Look underneath the attention seeking. tjwash Jul 2013 #136

Hidden? What there is of it, that is, because if you don't get outraged in the PC manner you get patrice Jul 2013 #145

Cause, ya know, you're better than & none of us do that crap. xchrom Jul 2013 #150

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #155

I was trying to explain something to you. If that makes you feel inferior, perhaps you patrice Jul 2013 #156

Btw, thanks for proving my original point, AGAIN. nt patrice Jul 2013 #157

Pardon me all to hell for thinking you might just celebrate that little community center & feel patrice Jul 2013 #158

Why don't you fix that by calling me an "ignorant ass" as you did the other day; I promise I patrice Jul 2013 #161

Btw, which is it? Am I "better than"? or am I an "ignorant ass"? nt patrice Jul 2013 #162

I see a number of responses from you to nothing...I must be ignoring someone worth it! mahina Jul 2013 #164

WOW, thanks for all you do for these people who need help! Amonester Jul 2013 #183

K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #166

Printing multiple copies to leave on the lunch tables at work. obxhead Jul 2013 #167

At this point it's got to be Stockholm Syndrome EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2013 #172

Identity politics makes it easy for the ruling class to divide and conquer shaayecanaan Jul 2013 #173

Thank You For Sharing cantbeserious Jul 2013 #174

Occupy movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Zorra Jul 2013 #176

The outrage is being displayed in Texas as we sit here on our computers tiredtoo Jul 2013 #177

K&R DeSwiss Jul 2013 #178

OUTRAGE OVERLOAD.... causes most ppl to shut down alittlelark Jul 2013 #180

Could it be that most people's lives actually aren't that bad? Kablooie Jul 2013 #185

You make a good point. Blanks Jul 2013 #189

i think the problem is leadership. tomp Jul 2013 #188

I've been asking that ? for a long time - asked it when I first joined DU in 2004 NRaleighLiberal Jul 2013 #190