General Discussion

Jessy169

(602 posts)

46. I'm seeing this issue in pretty much the same way as grantcart

Tue Jul 9, 2013, 01:07 PM

Jul 2013

From my point of view, there has been massive over-reaction and vindictiveness toward Obama in regards to "the Snowden debacle".

Snowden didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. He is not a "hero" -- not in my book.

Given all the extreme dangers that we are exposed to, it makes sense to me that responsible leaders would want to be in a position to monitor the roads, pathways and electronic signals that the would-be mass-murderers are most likely to use in their nefarious plots.

The data collected by NSA may at some point be used to target law-abiding or politically "incorrect" groups. That is a valid concern, and a distinct possibility IMO. But that distinct possibility does not override the legitimate need to make sure we don't get hit with another 9/11, or worse.

Obama has little to no control over the NSA program. No president does. There are much greater forces at work than any one man sitting in the oval office.

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An alternative view from a �lackey butt-kissing shit� [View all] grantcart Jul 2013 OP

Seriously? NoOneMan Jul 2013 #1

And yours highlights the lost art of reading and comprehension. sinkingfeeling Jul 2013 #4

lol..nt xiamiam Jul 2013 #7

That would require I valued wading past the first few paragraphs NoOneMan Jul 2013 #8

Allergic to complexity and nuance? JaneyVee Jul 2013 #56

IOW ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #82

�lackey butt-kissing shit� pocoloco Jul 2013 #172

I ws prepared for a rant and then for a looooooong rant. Well done and worth the read. I think..... marble falls Jul 2013 #89

+ a million or 2..nt xiamiam Jul 2013 #5

What? cyberswede Jul 2013 #6

"Had I but more time, I would have written less." NoOneMan Jul 2013 #10

Post like this remind me snooper2 Jul 2013 #11

Look - not all of us are "Hooked on Phonics" survivors Mopar151 Jul 2013 #13

Its a bit sarcastic... NoOneMan Jul 2013 #18

Quite the opposite. HappyMe Jul 2013 #15

I read it and it took about 10 minutes. phleshdef Jul 2013 #17

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #20

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #25

Haha NoOneMan Jul 2013 #26

With the right hand or the left? zeemike Jul 2013 #60

Mounted Fleshlight FTW. phleshdef Jul 2013 #62

So you can't really commit to one or the other. zeemike Jul 2013 #67

The inanimate object was asking for it. You could tell by the way it looked at me. phleshdef Jul 2013 #69

Well that would make a diference... zeemike Jul 2013 #74

Masturbate, Rub Face In Filth --- Interesting Set Of Options You Favor, Fella.... The Magistrate Jul 2013 #28

speaking for everyone? Sheepshank Jul 2013 #50

I had the opposite reaction. Why attack someone Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #72

Seriously? You think there aren't those still on DU who would Cha Jul 2013 #129

Reading is fundamental. That was a great read. MADem Jul 2013 #154

+1. I thoroughly enjoyed it. nt Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #203

Rec because it is a GREAT post. nt Bonobo Jul 2013 #2

Indeed...eom Kolesar Jul 2013 #51

I agree. Blanks Jul 2013 #177

Well Done, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2013 #3

You lost me here: GeorgeGist Jul 2013 #9

That's a shame ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #85

Good post...nt SidDithers Jul 2013 #12

The opposite is also true here. hobbit709 Jul 2013 #14

If there are people who state that then it is wrong and counter productive, but grantcart Jul 2013 #21

Here is the counter list: Pholus Jul 2013 #135

Don't forget "authoritarian" and "jack booted thug"... MADem Jul 2013 #155

Two wrongs don't make a right--and ironically, you complain about their name calling you ("hater)-- Moonwalk Jul 2013 #35

Phony enthusiasm is like high school pep rallies. hobbit709 Jul 2013 #39

Once again, you prove the point, by trying to excuse YOUR condemnation.... Moonwalk Jul 2013 #128

A swing and a miss hobbit709 Jul 2013 #130

No miss at all if others get the message. Thank you for being such a good example. Moonwalk Jul 2013 #132

That's a natural and very old cognitive habit that is used by either/any side to OPPRESS. patrice Jul 2013 #96

There's an old saying IrishAyes Jul 2013 #195

This should resonate more than it will. great white snark Jul 2013 #16

I WILL FITE YOU for "lackey butt-kissing shit" #1 position. phleshdef Jul 2013 #19

Yeah, I'd be no where in the Cha Jul 2013 #131

It's a shame that the President has put his most ardent supporters into a position where ... dawg Jul 2013 #22

^^^^this^^^^ L0oniX Jul 2013 #24

some of which are war crimes, un constitutional and crimes against humanity..very sad indeed..nt xiamiam Jul 2013 #34

^^This!^^ BrotherIvan Jul 2013 #36

^^^THIS^^^ = strawman...noted along with Paulian memes. uponit7771 Jul 2013 #40

That's all you've got? dawg Jul 2013 #42

Is more needed? uponit7771 Jul 2013 #65

I honestly don't think you even understand ... dawg Jul 2013 #70

Unfortunately, many of our conservative defenders of an authoritarian government ... bvar22 Jul 2013 #185

That's all any of them have. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #120

That was not pitchy at all, dawg!! bullwinkle428 Jul 2013 #76

that's not support, it is OBSESSION Skittles Jul 2013 #143

Zactly.......nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #149

Yep. East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #162

+1 leftstreet Jul 2013 #181

Overload ...got a life ...I reserve book time for late night. L0oniX Jul 2013 #23

lol did someone force you by gun point to read the OP? grantcart Jul 2013 #30

bwahh haa haa haaa *gasp for air* haaahhaaa Sheepshank Jul 2013 #52

I thank people like that for the kick.... MADem Jul 2013 #156

I appreciate the friend who sent me a link to your OP IrishAyes Jul 2013 #196

Well done. bemildred Jul 2013 #27

Sorry but your OP is way too long to address each point. I do find it interesting rhett o rick Jul 2013 #29

I didn't complain about DU not hiding a thread grantcart Jul 2013 #33

We must fight apathy and complacency and be vigilant. It's not paranoia to recognize rhett o rick Jul 2013 #81

Kick & Recommend Pirate Smile Jul 2013 #31

What does it mean to be a "100% supporter of the President" ??? polichick Jul 2013 #32

I consider myself to be a FDR Democrat. grantcart Jul 2013 #41

I must've missed "the vitriol that is used to disparage the President"... polichick Jul 2013 #73

Great post. nt Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #88

It's pretty obvious that 'shit' refers to behaviour, not a person muriel_volestrangler Jul 2013 #37

Obviously you find vitriol against the President and his supporters to be grantcart Jul 2013 #49

If they're fishing through everyone's records for patterns, then everyone's under surveillance muriel_volestrangler Jul 2013 #61

missed his point, I think bigtree Jul 2013 #58

"ask them what they believe or represent" - so why didn't he ask WillyT, instead of posting the OP? muriel_volestrangler Jul 2013 #68

good example bigtree Jul 2013 #78

Thank you! Cha Jul 2013 #136

Lame attempt. No one.. much less bigtree is Cha Jul 2013 #137

Hey, count me in too! IrishAyes Jul 2013 #197

K&R. Well said. Bottom line: GOTV 2014. FSogol Jul 2013 #38

Second that motion nt flamingdem Jul 2013 #44

Absolutely n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #90

An excellent OP, grant! sheshe2 Jul 2013 #43

Kick! sheshe2 Jul 2013 #45

I'm seeing this issue in pretty much the same way as grantcart Jessy169 Jul 2013 #46

thank you! bookmarking to read later BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2013 #47

Yes. Long time since I heard that one. IrishAyes Jul 2013 #198

nice thread, as usual bigtree Jul 2013 #48

Well, first of all, let me say this is very well put-together OP NuclearDem Jul 2013 #53

Wow...a complete list of excuses and rationalizations all in one place zeemike Jul 2013 #54

K & R MoreGOPoop Jul 2013 #55

Do you expect me to read books about your hurt feelings? xtraxritical Jul 2013 #57

Based on your nuanced and insightful response, no one expects you to read any books at all. Ever. 11 Bravo Jul 2013 #79

This message was self-deleted by its author xtraxritical Jul 2013 #84

The lexicon and manners of those who wear Obama's name like a shield speak volumes Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #169

I can't imagine someone who objects to this OP being too long reading Dostoevsky or Tolstoy stevenleser Jul 2013 #194

Your incredible effort on the OP is appreciated - well done, and thought-provoking. NRaleighLiberal Jul 2013 #59

I couldn't have said it better. malokvale77 Jul 2013 #125

If you can't catch a rodent any other way, IrishAyes Jul 2013 #199

Well done and worth the read Sheepshank Jul 2013 #63

K & R! Quite possibly the most sane and rational OP I've ever read on DU. JaneyVee Jul 2013 #64

This is the longest post at DU I have read all the way Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #66

Great OP ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #71

Not entirely. IrishAyes Jul 2013 #200

I want to start... Wait Wut Jul 2013 #75

A rather long thread to get the point across. Savannahmann Jul 2013 #77

Maybe you should have ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #92

I did read it. Savannahmann Jul 2013 #95

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #99

The other points were burrs on bushes that scratch your leg. Savannahmann Jul 2013 #107

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #110

Touche. IrishAyes Jul 2013 #201

Thanks for the authoritarian view. GeorgeGist Jul 2013 #167

A couple of points and a question. cali Jul 2013 #80

Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #94

I doubt cali read the whole thing the first time. nt BumRushDaShow Jul 2013 #98

I doubt more than a few ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #100

well written and seriously needed sigmasix Jul 2013 #83

Enthusiastic K&R!!!!! cliffordu Jul 2013 #86

Sanity has returned to DU with your post BumRushDaShow Jul 2013 #87

Fascist propaganda against those with whom they disagree is prejudiced & over-simplified. You can patrice Jul 2013 #91

These same people Jamaal510 Jul 2013 #157

And we are known by our fruits. IrishAyes Jul 2013 #202

There is no such thing as an absolute right. Rights are relative; that's what makes them rights. patrice Jul 2013 #93

K/R CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #97

If you want to think of yourself as a lackey etc etc Rex Jul 2013 #101

You said, "No one is going to be persuaded by this thread." Ilsa Jul 2013 #102

Its just on this issue that for the most part opinions have crystallilzed grantcart Jul 2013 #105

Yes, a ton of assumption, conclusion jumping (me too), and petty personal attacks here BornLooser Jul 2013 #103

I wish I could rec a reply. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #109

Thanks BornLooser Jul 2013 #114

Thank you, grantcart -- you're my kind of "lackey butt-kissing shit"! VOX Jul 2013 #104

Excellent post! zappaman Jul 2013 #106

Reminded me of the requirement to report payments over $10,000 treestar Jul 2013 #108

An excellent post. Kick. nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #111

Why are we assuming that everyone on either/any side of this is exactly what they patrice Jul 2013 #112

Thank you Grantcart felix_numinous Jul 2013 #113

An interesting manifesto. bvar22 Jul 2013 #115

Thanks for your reply grantcart Jul 2013 #118

Nobody here praises FDR for the Japanese Internment. bvar22 Jul 2013 #126

The double standard that is being used to judge President Obama is so grantcart Jul 2013 #165

Let me make it real simple for you. bvar22 Jul 2013 #187

You'd make a great spin doctor. IrishAyes Jul 2013 #205

My argument (that YOU avoid adressing in your Ad Hominen attack) is Basic Logic bvar22 Jul 2013 #206

Some people mistake a string of hot words as wisdom IrishAyes Jul 2013 #207

No ... No ... No ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #192

An excellent example of MISSION CREEP Pholus Jul 2013 #161

Not too many years ago, I could drive Coast to Coast WITHOUT... bvar22 Jul 2013 #186

which court? oh, the roberts court. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #164

PLUS ONE! nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #150

I think you completely miss the point of the surveillance state. reusrename Jul 2013 #116

Yes! dougolat Jul 2013 #189

Simply Outstanding. JoePhilly Jul 2013 #117

Truly, some people are comfortable with their chains and the callouses they have grown galileoreloaded Jul 2013 #119

are you comfortable in your chains? Californeeway Jul 2013 #191

Concise and informative post from a long-timer. Spot-on analysis, sir. byronius Jul 2013 #121

Great post grantcart! Scurrilous Jul 2013 #122

Screw that noise! I don't even trust myself 100% Throd Jul 2013 #123

K&R!!!!!! Bravo and thank you! stevenleser Jul 2013 #124

Excellent post, grantcart. Bobbie Jo Jul 2013 #127

Man... Must Have Hit A Nerve... Thanks GrantCart !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #133

Of course, it was obvious who the OP was refering to.. Cha Jul 2013 #134

anyone who supports a politician 100% lacks credibility Skittles Jul 2013 #138

Agreeing with and supporting are two different things. grantcart Jul 2013 #142

Good that you aren't announcing that you're leaving. I would have given you my normal salute bluestate10 Jul 2013 #139

WOW! A long but GREAT post! jazzimov Jul 2013 #140

I can't believe that I missed you the first time. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #141

Wow - amazing post! Politicub Jul 2013 #144

I'M A HUGE FAN!!!!! Cronus Protagonist Jul 2013 #145

Flemish? Kurovski Jul 2013 #146

You didn't hit the link grantcart Jul 2013 #166

Kick for the night crowd cliffordu Jul 2013 #147

Well, it's settled then. n/t pa28 Jul 2013 #148

This forum is totally unworthy of such an intelligent FACTUAL post Number23 Jul 2013 #151

grantcart dropping a reasonable and clear headed post, as usual. joshcryer Jul 2013 #152

That was a lovely romp! Not only do I agree with your comments, I've said most of them as well, MADem Jul 2013 #153

K & R SunSeeker Jul 2013 #158

We desperately need more threads like these in GD. Jamaal510 Jul 2013 #159

Beats the vitriolic ones for sure...and the ones that have One Cryptic Sentence as the subject line! MADem Jul 2013 #204

Great post. Bravo to my favorite LBKS. lamp_shade Jul 2013 #160

Whining about DU. East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #163

If you think this is whining about DU then first please hit the alert button grantcart Jul 2013 #168

tldr East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #183

sis boom bah bobduca Jul 2013 #170

It is impossible to have substantive discussions with those who cannot grasp, Zorra Jul 2013 #171

I found your reply hilarious and I don't apologize if you think it is condescending grantcart Jul 2013 #173

"Good luck with that whole "going to change the world by posting copies of lyrics" thing." bobduca Jul 2013 #175

I would be happy if that became the new standard for civility. grantcart Jul 2013 #178

I'm sorry, but I believe you must have missed this part of my post: Zorra Jul 2013 #182

! Number23 Jul 2013 #190

Great post. Thank you! ColesCountyDem Jul 2013 #174

Thanks, grant. I've dropped out of the NSA threads - too high strung, reactionary, toby jo Jul 2013 #176

I did read all of your post, and I am impressed Lifelong Protester Jul 2013 #179

Lol excellent point. I don't think anyone was rising to the level of an epitaph. grantcart Jul 2013 #180

Good, I would hate to see you go away! Lifelong Protester Jul 2013 #184

Here's a very public thank you. Autumn Jul 2013 #188

Kick nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #193

K'n'R ucrdem Jun 2014 #208