General Discussion

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)

175. we don't know for a fact what happened...

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:27 AM

Jul 2013

According to two witnesses, there was a chase sequence. Jeanter heard the chase on the phone, which is corroborated by a neighbor who heard and/or saw a chase.

They could have rolled around, wrestling on the grass, which would explain why some neighbor's saw one on top and some saw the other on top.

Zimmerman could have slipped on the grass, fallen over backwards and banged his head against the sidewalk without any help from Martin.

He could have run into a wall in the dark and broken his own nose. Kickback from his gun held in an awkward position could have broken his nose -- this would explain the punctures on his nose, as well as his blood on his gun.

Or perhaps after Zimmerman pulled out his gun, Martin grabbed Zimmerman's hands and was wrestling with him, trying to point the gun away from himself. In such a wrestling match, the gun could have punched Zimmerman in the nose. That would explain the "downward motions" of Martin's hands as he desperately tried to keep from being shot. That would explain why Martin's dna was not found on the gun -- his hands would be on Zimmerman's hands or wrists or forearms, not the gun itself. That would also explain how Zimmerman thought his shot "went wide." And it certainly is what I would do in desperation, were somebody to pull out a gun at point blank range and aim it at me.

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ZIMMERMAN TRIAL - MORNING, Day 12, Wednesday, July 10, 2013 [View all] GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 OP

The defense did have the phone material, it had been given to them in a 'bin file'... Spazito Jul 2013 #1

OK. I only saw a few minutes of that session. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #2

The state did their job when they avebury Jul 2013 #3

do you know what is meant by a bin file? TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #7

binary file that needs to be opened by an application, I believe as in convert to pdf chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #11

AFTERNOON THREAD LINK Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #354

It is like a computer file. I imagine they avebury Jul 2013 #13

Yes, they gave the defense what they had and basically made them do chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #15

thanks! TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #18

I think they're referring to a binary file. Jim__ Jul 2013 #17

The defense seems to be playing games. Evergreen Emerald Jul 2013 #4

Yep, and adding to that the defense seems to have plenty of time for press... Spazito Jul 2013 #5

It's a delay tactic. Lisa D Jul 2013 #8

Ding ding... Winner! n/t JimDandy Jul 2013 #56

I saw that video and was gobsmacked justiceischeap Jul 2013 #9

I thought the same thing. Evergreen Emerald Jul 2013 #22

The complaining defense attorney JimDandy Jul 2013 #66

Trying to get a declaration of mis-trial? Myrina Jul 2013 #49

Is the prosecution expected to call any of Martin's friends in rebuttal to chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #6

Any witnesses the prosecution wanted to put on the stand had to be called during their phase of the Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #20

The State has the right to put on a rebuttal case after the defense rests.... Spazito Jul 2013 #23

No animation, no text messages Marrah_G Jul 2013 #10

Judge Nelson has denied the defense re the animation and the... Spazito Jul 2013 #12

Whaaaa? That's not good to allow it in closing, though, JimDandy Jul 2013 #75

they can only use it to illustrate evidence that is already admitted magical thyme Jul 2013 #86

The State, having the final say through their rebuttal closing argument after the defense... Spazito Jul 2013 #172

Judge ruled. Cartoon can't be used as evidence. TM's phone stuff can't be used. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #14

The correct ruling warrior1 Jul 2013 #16

Could this end up being grounds for appeal? YarnAddict Jul 2013 #30

they weren't admitted because they weren't authenticated TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #37

People think there are all sorts of grounds for appeal; there aren't. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #103

Dennis Root, Private Investigator and defense trainer called. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #19

This guy is about to say deadly force was used correctly, I believe. chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #21

This could backfire. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #24

Very much so. chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #25

If nothing else, it will showcase Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #27

I am looking forward to prosecution asking what the procedure is chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #28

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #274

They could very easily address how Martin could use self defense. Evergreen Emerald Jul 2013 #29

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #277

I agree, particularly if the PA avebury Jul 2013 #31

I agree... Punkingal Jul 2013 #48

The second livestream works: ellisonz Jul 2013 #26

So in other words, we are to believe that avebury Jul 2013 #32

Expert on fighting & personal weapons. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #33

Nope, he's an expert on everything. n/t ellisonz Jul 2013 #38

Ok, I imagine I'm on the jury, I am doing my best, but my mind wanders as I wonder Ninga Jul 2013 #34

Zimmerman's wife has yet to testify... Spazito Jul 2013 #35

Maybe defense thinks that all the blah blah blah will make the jury forget she even exists.......nt Ninga Jul 2013 #41

They can hope but it won't happen... Spazito Jul 2013 #46

I would think the jury is already been wondering TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #43

Yep, that is my thinking as well... Spazito Jul 2013 #47

and if they do call her, Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #258

The defense is between a rock and a hard place due to the actions of their client and... Spazito Jul 2013 #281

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #269

How will the judge handle the defense witness that violated the sequester order Ninga Jul 2013 #36

There were two witnesses who violated their sequestration order.... Spazito Jul 2013 #40

Thx... Nt Ninga Jul 2013 #42

can you say more about this? Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #270

Oh I get it...this arms expert wants his five minutes in the spotlight.... Ninga Jul 2013 #39

I can't figure out what he's doing on the stand at all TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #45

He's there to promote himself and his business n/t tom_kelly Jul 2013 #55

so far that's all I can see with this guy TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #61

Interesting that Root reached out to the defense in order to help them MrScorpio Jul 2013 #44

I think so, and as a jury person, if my job is to be a critical thinker, when he Ninga Jul 2013 #50

The payment he is received may be free advertising for avebury Jul 2013 #54

Of course... Ninga Jul 2013 #59

Bingo! MrScorpio Jul 2013 #60

I would like to get Root to admit that a person avebury Jul 2013 #51

I vote for you to question Root...good thinking! Nt Ninga Jul 2013 #52

"totally incapable of defending himself physically" ??? Common Sense Party Jul 2013 #238

Testimony on Zimmerman's physical ability came from his avebury Jul 2013 #248

And the trainer said that Zimmy was completely incapable of defending himself? Common Sense Party Jul 2013 #249

pretty much said he is "soft" HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #253

Yup. Doesn't even know how to throw a punch. nt avebury Jul 2013 #261

and even without MMA training, TM knows how to punch. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #264

So wait, Mr Good talked to the defense attorneys or just the defenses ME?! thx in advance uponit7771 Jul 2013 #53

Mr Goode violated the sequester order by talking to the ME, and before he testified...the other Ninga Jul 2013 #58

Mr. Goode also talked to Daniel Schumaker, consulted on the animation... Spazito Jul 2013 #64

Freakin wow!! What usually happens when soemone does this? uponit7771 Jul 2013 #65

I am not sure, the Judge will take this up for sure... Spazito Jul 2013 #73

just got the answer to the question I posed you above.. Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #276

I am hoping Florida's Sunshine Laws will apply to any hearing on this... Spazito Jul 2013 #286

I guess this witness thinks everyone should have the rights of a LEO... Spazito Jul 2013 #57

I would say it calls attention to anyone being able to protect themselves, which LEO's do. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #63

Yes, I can see why you would think so... Spazito Jul 2013 #71

and most LEO's will give you a ticket for not wearing your seat belt while they are not wearing HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #77

LOL, great shift of topic... Spazito Jul 2013 #85

I should have worded it differently then, I didn't mean what you think I meant. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #91

LEOs have the right to defend themselves... Spazito Jul 2013 #114

but he has the right to defend himself if he feels his life is in danger, no? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #121

Everyone has the right to defend themselves if they feel their life is in danger... Spazito Jul 2013 #131

I'm saying that people have the right to defend themselves. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #137

did Trayvon Martin have a right to defend himself from a man with a gun? CitizenLeft Jul 2013 #325

yes. he just didn't do it well enough. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #327

does that include TM? frylock Jul 2013 #337

as I have stated before, yes. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #338

LEOs don't use seat belts because they have to exit the vehicle quickly. displacedtexan Jul 2013 #308

ok forget about seat belts. what about officers who drink and drive or let their "buddies" HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #311

Zimmerman - the wannabe cop is avebury Jul 2013 #76

and yours is so believable! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #79

It is known that Zimmerman did make a phone call (remember there is avebury Jul 2013 #88

and why has that information not come out about who was called? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #93

anyone does have a right to protect themselves. magical thyme Jul 2013 #140

which he did, did he not? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #142

we don't know for a fact what happened... magical thyme Jul 2013 #175

the gun would have to be right in from of his nose for the kickback to cause damage to the nose. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #179

And Martin may have been wrestling with Zimmerman after Z pulled his gun magical thyme Jul 2013 #196

have you ever fired a handgun before? do you realize what it would look like holding a gun right in HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #200

1. No. 2. Have you ever fired a gun while somebody had their hands over yours and was wrestling with magical thyme Jul 2013 #207

1. that answers a lot, especially how you feel about self-defense with a gun. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #211

My understanding is it takes only one finger to pull a trigger. Even toddlers seem to be offing magical thyme Jul 2013 #229

you are saying that Z would pull the gun all the way to his nice before he fires? yeah he can do it HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #233

when 2 people are wrestling for a single object, nobody has complete control over where it is magical thyme Jul 2013 #257

but Z ended up feeling his life was threatened and did what he felt he needed. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #260

it's not enough to claim to feel threatened. it must be reasonable to feel threatened. affirmative magical thyme Jul 2013 #267

maybe not enough for your life to feel threatened, but maybe it was for him. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #273

And he was friggin wrong then, and when he struck out after unarmed, innocent kid. Hoyt Jul 2013 #297

so you can tell in different situations when a person should fear for their life and when they HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #305

I can tell that your buddy Zimmerman did not give a damn about Martin. Hoyt Jul 2013 #368

LEO "rights???" HUH Duckwraps Jul 2013 #81

LEOs are given authority to act in ways the public are not... Spazito Jul 2013 #98

LEO's have powers. Citizens have rights. Duckwraps Jul 2013 #181

Actually, they have a 'legal authority' the public does not... Spazito Jul 2013 #185

LEO's don't have any different "rights" than the average citizen does, premium Jul 2013 #90

LEOs do have the authority to act in ways the public cannot... Spazito Jul 2013 #122

Legal authority would be the correct term, premium Jul 2013 #126

So many here don't understand the difference between rights .... oldhippie Jul 2013 #208

He claims that, by his training and experience, he can look at the different testimonies... GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #62

Zimmerman had "no prowess" as a fighter Generic Other Jul 2013 #67

Wow, a defense witness made-to-order Lisa D Jul 2013 #72

Yeah total bs Just Saying Jul 2013 #74

And neither were any of us, premium Jul 2013 #112

We're not testifying on court. N/t Just Saying Jul 2013 #115

So? premium Jul 2013 #139

but this is so hard for people to see. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #141

Oh come on Just Saying Jul 2013 #149

but people on a message board and talking about how expert witnesses are flat out wrong. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #153

Experts are never wrong? Just Saying Jul 2013 #160

don't have a problem at all. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #165

Experts are often wrong, premium Jul 2013 #166

So we agree on one thing. n/t Just Saying Jul 2013 #176

We probably agree on a lot of things, premium Jul 2013 #187

Here we go again with this crap that I'm defending Zimmerman. premium Jul 2013 #161

We're all posting theories based on what we see. Just Saying Jul 2013 #171

I've said several times that I'm a retired FLEO, premium Jul 2013 #182

I think it's your attitude that leads to my perceptions. Just Saying Jul 2013 #205

I can only speak for myself Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #298

Long winded to the point of boring katmondoo Jul 2013 #68

Is this guy saying that TM could have handled Z? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #69

Can you PLEASE find another thread to clutter up? WCLinolVir Jul 2013 #380

No I cannot. thank you for trying though. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #381

Wait, the guy who trained MMA for a year has LESS prowess than the person who didn't? uponit7771 Jul 2013 #70

Zimmerman should demand a refund.. that would be 4-6 hours a week for chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #78

OH NO! he said something you done believe so it must be wrong! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #80

So if I took boxing lessons 2-3 a week for a year, I can't chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #84

I don't know if you remembered what you learned, I don't know what you can use what you learned. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #87

It certainly doesn't but a jury will be asking themselves that someone chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #94

Anything is possible. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #101

That goes without saying, so the issue is PROBABILITY not possibility because possibility is a given uponit7771 Jul 2013 #108

exactly. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #110

So it is MORE probbable hat the person with a years worth of boxing training has the advantage over uponit7771 Jul 2013 #125

I think you mean MMA, not boxing... HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #127

Facts are facts regardless of whether you believe them or not. FACT NOT IN DISPUTE - ZIMMERMAN uponit7771 Jul 2013 #130

but not boxing. so because Z had MMA training, he should be able to beat anyone up without a gun? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #136

I could care less, he had almost a years worth of MMA TM did NOT uponit7771 Jul 2013 #144

I could care less that Z had the training. Does this mean that TM was doomed because of HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #150

Most LIKELY he would be...the person with almost a years worth of training has MORE advantange than uponit7771 Jul 2013 #157

For every occasion? I don't buy it. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #164

Z had nearly a year of regular MMA training, was 40 pounds bigger, 10 years older and had a gun... magical thyme Jul 2013 #154

I thought I heard the expert say that age doesn't matter. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #158

40 pounds bigger can be 40 pounds more muscle magical thyme Jul 2013 #188

If you say so. to you Z was the Hulk and TM is an ant. n/t HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #190

Not to that extreme, but yes. Z had ~40 pounds more muscle mass, more life experience, and a gun. nt magical thyme Jul 2013 #201

So every time Z win because he had 40lbs on his and had some MMA experience, right? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #203

IIRC, he "won" his domestic violence assaults, when he picked on somebody smaller, but "lost" his magical thyme Jul 2013 #213

so change the topic. I see. n/t HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #216

I didn't change the topic. You wrote "Z always win," I wrote when he did or didn't win. also, n/t magical thyme Jul 2013 #242

so lets convict him of murder already, because of his past!!! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #245

BOOM!!! Really good point uponit7771 Jul 2013 #241

MMA has boxing in it Finnmccool Jul 2013 #330

right but MMA is not boxing, right? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #332

Not just boxing it has wrestling Finnmccool Jul 2013 #344

right, but MMA is not boxing. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #345

It's not the standard in this case. If it were there would never be any trials. chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #117

All things being equal so take all variants out. NO CREDIBLE person can say the guy with 1 year of uponit7771 Jul 2013 #95

I would imagine that TM wrestled around with his friends and maybe even been in a scrum. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #104

Please link and quote the evidence that TM "wrestled" with his friends?! tia uponit7771 Jul 2013 #128

haha omg. I said "I WOULD IMAGINE" not that I read somewhere that he did. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #134

That's what Z Defenders want people to believe, it's assinine at best and racial in context uponit7771 Jul 2013 #89

who said "a black guy is the better athlete vs boxer"?? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #97

Strawman noted, I never said anyone did. Anything else? tia uponit7771 Jul 2013 #102

so who are you calling a boxer then? I wasn't aware either TM or Z was a boxer? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #106

The person who had nearly a year of boxing traing uponit7771 Jul 2013 #120

do you mean Mixed Martial Arts or boxing? Two completely different things...... HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #124

MMA includes boxing...nice try...come on dude, this is getting silly uponit7771 Jul 2013 #133

well then why do you only focus on the boxing aspect? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #138

because the other guy had NO TRAINING IN BOXING!! My Goodnes, this isn't hard uponit7771 Jul 2013 #145

and that means EVERYTHING! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #148

When it comes to common sense logic it means a lot. Common sense - the guy who trained MMA uponit7771 Jul 2013 #155

I think you are assuming things... Just because you had MMA classes doesnt make you better than HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #162

MMA is a full contact combat sport. It's not "completely different" from boxing. Nine Jul 2013 #296

Of course you can. Just Saying Jul 2013 #92

...REALLY good point and Z wasn't fat like he is now uponit7771 Jul 2013 #99

Some people are Chuck Norris, some are PeeWee Herman Generic Other Jul 2013 #105

what's wrong with Pee Wee Herman????? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #113

He slandered Pee Wee Generic Other Jul 2013 #167

++++ JustAnotherGen Jul 2013 #279

Prosecutor objected to question about Leo discharging firearm Just Saying Jul 2013 #82

Is Root serious! avebury Jul 2013 #83

Accidents. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #100

I don't think that there is really such think avebury Jul 2013 #111

So you've missed all the news reports of YOUNG CHILDREN shooting someone or themselves? WinkyDink Jul 2013 #119

Those incidents are not accidents but due to the gross avebury Jul 2013 #123

Please refer to your first post: WinkyDink Jul 2013 #132

One might make the point that a gun owner who is avebury Jul 2013 #147

but nobody has claimed an accidental shooting here Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #303

not if they felt their life was in danger. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #107

NBC not working for me; watching the FL link. Am I supposed to like this witness? I don't. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #96

I had the same problem.. FL link works just fine. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #109

In your opinion. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #118

Yes, expressing my opinion. This man seems to ME to be advocating a fully-armed citizenry. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #193

I have to disagree. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #194

And I thought the gym owner was arrogant... Saturday Jul 2013 #116

I think this testimony about the holster Just Saying Jul 2013 #129

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #135

Prosecution just blew this guy out of the water Marrah_G Jul 2013 #143

lost feed, what happened? tia uponit7771 Jul 2013 #146

Basically that the guy is testifying to market his consulting company Marrah_G Jul 2013 #151

First trial his company has testified at Generic Other Jul 2013 #169

"did you ask Zimmerman if he was afraid when he got out of the car" chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #152

the prosecution said the same thing about the ME yesterday. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #156

They are starting to sound like hacks because they didn't look at all the evidence and the ... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #159

Didn't they explain why certain evidence wasn't needed. I seem to remember that. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #163

so should experts who testify not be paid at all and do it out of the goodness of their heart? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #174

HLN muted a bunch of the opening questions on the cross of Root pokerfan Jul 2013 #244

That would be references to fucking punks and assholes Marrah_G Jul 2013 #263

That's pretty much what I assumed pokerfan Jul 2013 #288

On cross, Root is coming across like avebury Jul 2013 #168

Hmm, I haven't noticed that.. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #170

PA is swinging him around by the shorthairs. Ninga Jul 2013 #173

LIKE WHOA!!! POINT OUT THE GUN WAS ON HIS BUTT CHEEK NOT HIS FRONT HIP!!!!! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #177

Root is starting to sink fast! avebury Jul 2013 #178

He's a PA witness right now!! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #180

"PA"? WinkyDink Jul 2013 #197

preosecuting attorney uponit7771 Jul 2013 #219

Costner is destroying Z's whole shooting account, the defense is on its feet uponit7771 Jul 2013 #183

Jury reaction avebury Jul 2013 #198

appreciate you posting these twitters, please keep it up Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #309

He dances with wolves! WinkyDink Jul 2013 #199

Is this a prosecution witness? bravenak Jul 2013 #184

defense just fired the person who took the call when Root phoned them and offered his services chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #204

LOL! Spazito Jul 2013 #209

This guy is spending the day advertising his services. bravenak Jul 2013 #210

LOL. I couldn't get the lighting correct because I didn't take into consideration chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #186

lofl!! Good catch uponit7771 Jul 2013 #189

Wow! The questions with the dummy were perfect! Just Saying Jul 2013 #191

Yep, the cross of this 'expert' is excellent... Spazito Jul 2013 #195

If TM had happened to reach toward where the gun was, Z(in the heat of the moment) thought that HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #215

Are you watching the trial? Just Saying Jul 2013 #223

Yes I am watching it. And I heard him say that Z could have gotten to his gun in his holster. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #226

Yes but the prosecution is showing he's full of crap. Just Saying Jul 2013 #232

almost as impossible for the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt of second degree... HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #236

Now you're changing the subject. N/t Just Saying Jul 2013 #237

;) HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #240

Zimmerman is a little more animated today no? tia uponit7771 Jul 2013 #192

"Anyone looking down the barrel of a gun would be screaming for help." JimDandy Jul 2013 #202

Costner is throwing doors, hopefully the PA saved him and the other guy for last uponit7771 Jul 2013 #206

Costner made a great point - Zimmerman avebury Jul 2013 #212

Good to hear this point. FarPoint Jul 2013 #272

You hear so many stories in the news these days of avebury Jul 2013 #306

Many missed questions Deny and Shred Jul 2013 #214

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #217

so you can call Z a liar, but show me how he is a liar. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #218

Sure Deny and Shred Jul 2013 #247

why not holster your weapon if the person is not moving anymore? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #251

Exactly Deny and Shred Jul 2013 #280

ehh.. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #284

"Can I borrow your doll for a moment?" YarnAddict Jul 2013 #220

LOL! "Somehow he got to hsi weapon" as if it's not important uponit7771 Jul 2013 #221

+1 Just Saying Jul 2013 #228

"How the gun got into Z's hand is moot" HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #222

Yeah, that's laughable to me too....lol uponit7771 Jul 2013 #231

well ill take the experts claims over yours. n/t HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #234

Handgun positioning and physics now what?! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #235

in relation to...? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #239

relating to being a smart ass,...no really...Root sounds like a hack and now his testimony suonds uponit7771 Jul 2013 #246

so Z was able to move TM's leg away to grab the gun from his side. easily done. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #250

..according to Z it wasn't on his side...see, that's why it's important to show HOW he got his gun uponit7771 Jul 2013 #254

then refresh my memory. where was it in Z's statement? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #256

Root should be able to tell you.... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #266

then I guess it doesnt matter because he believe how Z got the gun in his hand is moot. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #271

Point being root is a hack, if root was TRULY worried about the TRUTH he would've taken both sides.. uponit7771 Jul 2013 #282

Root is saying that by what he has seen and heard, that is what he believes. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #287

This expert is wrong about the gun. Just Saying Jul 2013 #292

ill believe that when it is proven in court. until then I will take it as your opinion. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #299

How about your opinion Just Saying Jul 2013 #304

in my opinion Z got the gun after TM was beating him and shot him because he was being hit. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #310

Your opinion is based on what Zimmerman told police. Just Saying Jul 2013 #319

so TM was sittin on Z to where Z was not able to move his arms? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #324

the gun was not holstered on GZ's side frylock Jul 2013 #358

so where was the gun then the whole time this was going on? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #360

in my opinion? the gun was in GZ's hands.. frylock Jul 2013 #363

so when you tell me that the gun wsa not holstered, that is what you believe but you have HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #364

that is correct.. frylock Jul 2013 #367

yet you take this "expert's" and GZ's word as gospel.. frylock Jul 2013 #356

I take the experts words, not someone on a message board.. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #362

this guy is a self-proclaimed "expert" at his first trial.. frylock Jul 2013 #373

ok master shake HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #382

I am amused by his avatar combined with his posts. uppityperson Jul 2013 #372

his jedi mind tricks aren't working.. frylock Jul 2013 #378

haha good one!!! I cant stop laughing! thanks for that!! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #384

good for you. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #383

He OVERTLY didn't hear and see all the information from both sides = hack uponit7771 Jul 2013 #294

did you hear him explain why? or are you ignoring that? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #300

Yes, because he's a hack... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #313

so you are picking and choosing who you are willing to believe and who not to believe. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #316

what the fuck do you think you're doing? frylock Jul 2013 #359

those are some harsh words.. I don't even know what you are talking about. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #361

you don't seem to know fuckall frylock Jul 2013 #365

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #366

with pleasure! frylock Jul 2013 #370

Well I hope when people get fucked that it's pleasurable! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #376

His post was hidden. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #386

i didn't alert. i like those posts to stand on their own merit.. frylock Jul 2013 #387

I don't have time to watch but try to read these threads. grantcart Jul 2013 #224

quick answer Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #317

good case for manslaughter? grantcart Jul 2013 #322

my opinion, absolutely Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #328

does self defense have to be proven or..... justanaverageguy Jul 2013 #336

I don't think the defense has a convincing case Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #341

Oh i didn't mean to say that it was convincing justanaverageguy Jul 2013 #350

OK I see what you mean. Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #353

me too. The defense shennanigans are just too painful to watch. grantcart Jul 2013 #369

of all the public trials in the news, this is the only one that has captivated me in this way Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #374

you can watch the whole trial on YouTube TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #388

O'Mara is asking 'is it possible' on so many things it is becoming laughable... Spazito Jul 2013 #225

On re-cross - This would be the time to ask that, avebury Jul 2013 #227

The 10th grade kid has MORE fighting abilities than the 200lb, fit, MMA trained grown man! REALLY?! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #230

not in every case, but in some cases... HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #243

...it's kind of weak to continue to proffer POSSIBILITIES when those go without saying no? I mean it uponit7771 Jul 2013 #252

doesn't the evidence of Z's face show that TM was on top of him and hitting him? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #255

No, especially since GZ had a bloody head and TM had no blood on his hands. NONE of Z's DNA.... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #265

because blood gushes everywhere as soon as someone is hit so TM should be covered, right? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #268

No, after 25 - 50 hits on his face and head...unless you want to proffer that after all that hitting uponit7771 Jul 2013 #275

That is quite possible ... ThePhilosopher04 Jul 2013 #290

REALLY GOOD Point!! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #291

then I expect the prosecution to show that. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #293

Z probably got his head injuries libodem Jul 2013 #301

haha oh wow. thank you for that!!!! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #307

Welcome libodem Jul 2013 #323

uuuuuuhh .......... no. polly7 Jul 2013 #278

how did Z get those boo-boos then? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #283

AGAIN...his own gun, it had GZ's DNA on it....NOT tms hands... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #285

oh yeah, TM did nothing to Z and Z did everything to himself. that's right.. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #289

No, TM scared Z by being a young black man...that scares a lot of Z types and they react negatively uponit7771 Jul 2013 #295

if only you could prove that in court. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #302

I'm being facetious, it doesn't look like Z had any racial animus towards blacks just sounds like he uponit7771 Jul 2013 #312

so he must be a racist, right. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #314

Which mzmolly Jul 2013 #259

cases you don't know about that I have witnessed personally. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #262

How many MMA trained fighters mzmolly Jul 2013 #315

so Z is now a trained MMA fighter? even though his trainer said he wasn't that great? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #318

A badly trained MMA fighter beats a person with no training at all....TM wasn't a welter weight ... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #321

how do you know TM hasnt been in a fight to give him some street training? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #326

..the same way I know Trayvon is Superman! Again, you're proffering possibilities its ...come on uponit7771 Jul 2013 #329

the same way you know Z is guilty and that TM was a saint. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #333

How do you know Zimmerman didn't have an assault charge mzmolly Jul 2013 #346

Why did Zimmerman forget he had mzmolly Jul 2013 #339

he wasn't trained well enough. Like other here have said, should have gotten his money back. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #340

Laughable. mzmolly Jul 2013 #342

good to know you have a sense of humor? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #343

Good to know you're mzmolly Jul 2013 #348

;) HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #349

One would hope after a year of training... mzmolly Jul 2013 #334

you think that the shitty trainer could get anyone to be a trained MMA fighter in a year? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #335

I think after a year of training you learn mzmolly Jul 2013 #351

I would think you are right if someone had a competent trainer. I wouldnt say that Z had a competent HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #355

Did he need training to hit a cop and a former fiance - mzmolly Jul 2013 #371

+1, that are 150ish lbs and in the 10th grade !!! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #320

apparently you need to get out more.. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #331

Knock Knock just never seems to learn does he? nt avebury Jul 2013 #347

whoa!!! Kali Jul 2013 #352

How can anyone be "incapable of self defense" Finnmccool Jul 2013 #357

When it comes to the real world, Zimmerman is hardly avebury Jul 2013 #375

Guy devestating out of the gate on recross. stranger81 Jul 2013 #377

Oh boy, its gonna get messy... n/t tom_kelly Jul 2013 #379

The defense rests. Lisa D Jul 2013 #385