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In reply to the discussion: Above all, you must realize that if you go ahead with this invasion, Osama bin Laden will triumph... [View all]xocet
(4,431 posts)83. A known prediction does not require its author to be reliable - anyone can judge its truth value....
Here is the case against her which was dropped:
448 F.Supp.2d 558 (2006)
UNITED STATES of Americav.Susan LINDAUER, a/k/a "Symbol Susan", Defendant.
No. S2 03 CR. 807(MBM).
United States District Court, S.D. New York.
September 6, 2006.
559 *559 Michael J. Garcia, Esq., United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York,Edward C. O'Callaghan, Esq., Assistant U.S. Attorney, New York City, for Plaintiff.
Sanford Talkin, Esq., Talkin, Muccigrosso & Roberts L.L.P., New York City, for Defendant.
OPINION AND ORDER
MUKASEY, District Judge.
...
Although it is concededly a risky business to judge the thrust of underlying charged conduct from the overt acts set forth in an indictment, the acts attributed to Lindauer in the indictment are the following: meetings in 1999 and October 2001 with IIS officers, at the latter of which she accepted an unspecified task; acceptance in January 2002 of $232.77 and on two dates in February of $311.10 and $270.00, respectively, for travel, lodging and meal expenses;travel from February 23 to March 8, 2002, to Iraq, via Jordan, and meetings there in venues that included the Al Rashid Hotel in Baghdad, where she accepted $5,000; a meeting in Manhattan where she accepted $200.00 for travel, lodging and meal expenses; delivery on January 8, 2003, to the home of an unspecified government official, of a letter in which she conveyed "her established access to, and contacts with, members of the Saddam Hussein regime, in an unsuccessful attempt to influence United States foreign policy." (Indictment ¶3n) Thereafter, she is alleged to have engaged in a series of acts involving an undercover FBI agent posing as a member of the Libyan intelligence service, all apparently directed at supporting what are referred to as "resistance groups in post-war Iraq" (Indictment ¶ 3o), by which I conclude is meant groups resisting the United States and its allies and the post-war Iraqi government.
Lindauer has been reported in numerous news articles to be a cousin, to a remote degree of consanguinity, of Andrew Card, a former White House chief of staff in the current administration. E.g., David Samuels, Susan Lindauer's Mission to Baghdad, New York Times Magazine, Aug. 29, 2004, at 25. Although Lindauer is reported in the cited article to have contacted Card during her period of contact with Iraqi officials, it is uncertain whether he is the unspecified "government official" referred to in the indictment.
The substantive counts of the indictment charge defendant with acting as an unregistered agent of the Iraqi government in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 951 (Count Two); accepting about$10,000 from IIS as payment for "various services and activities," including her trip to Baghdad in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2332d (Count Five); and engaging in financial transactions with the government of Iraq in relation to her trip to Iraq in violation of 50 U.S.C.§ 1701 et seq. (Count Six).
From these charges, it appears that the high-water mark of defendant's efforts to act as an unregistered agent for the Iraqi government was her delivery of a letter in January 2003 to the home of an unspecified *561 government official, in what is described even in the indictment as "an unsuccessful effort to influence United States foreign policy." (Indictment ¶3n)
...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/46046645/US-v-Susan-Lindauer-NYSD-448-F-Supp-2d-558-2006
UNITED STATES of Americav.Susan LINDAUER, a/k/a "Symbol Susan", Defendant.
No. S2 03 CR. 807(MBM).
United States District Court, S.D. New York.
September 6, 2006.
559 *559 Michael J. Garcia, Esq., United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York,Edward C. O'Callaghan, Esq., Assistant U.S. Attorney, New York City, for Plaintiff.
Sanford Talkin, Esq., Talkin, Muccigrosso & Roberts L.L.P., New York City, for Defendant.
OPINION AND ORDER
MUKASEY, District Judge.
...
Although it is concededly a risky business to judge the thrust of underlying charged conduct from the overt acts set forth in an indictment, the acts attributed to Lindauer in the indictment are the following: meetings in 1999 and October 2001 with IIS officers, at the latter of which she accepted an unspecified task; acceptance in January 2002 of $232.77 and on two dates in February of $311.10 and $270.00, respectively, for travel, lodging and meal expenses;travel from February 23 to March 8, 2002, to Iraq, via Jordan, and meetings there in venues that included the Al Rashid Hotel in Baghdad, where she accepted $5,000; a meeting in Manhattan where she accepted $200.00 for travel, lodging and meal expenses; delivery on January 8, 2003, to the home of an unspecified government official, of a letter in which she conveyed "her established access to, and contacts with, members of the Saddam Hussein regime, in an unsuccessful attempt to influence United States foreign policy." (Indictment ¶3n) Thereafter, she is alleged to have engaged in a series of acts involving an undercover FBI agent posing as a member of the Libyan intelligence service, all apparently directed at supporting what are referred to as "resistance groups in post-war Iraq" (Indictment ¶ 3o), by which I conclude is meant groups resisting the United States and its allies and the post-war Iraqi government.
Lindauer has been reported in numerous news articles to be a cousin, to a remote degree of consanguinity, of Andrew Card, a former White House chief of staff in the current administration. E.g., David Samuels, Susan Lindauer's Mission to Baghdad, New York Times Magazine, Aug. 29, 2004, at 25. Although Lindauer is reported in the cited article to have contacted Card during her period of contact with Iraqi officials, it is uncertain whether he is the unspecified "government official" referred to in the indictment.
The substantive counts of the indictment charge defendant with acting as an unregistered agent of the Iraqi government in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 951 (Count Two); accepting about$10,000 from IIS as payment for "various services and activities," including her trip to Baghdad in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2332d (Count Five); and engaging in financial transactions with the government of Iraq in relation to her trip to Iraq in violation of 50 U.S.C.§ 1701 et seq. (Count Six).
From these charges, it appears that the high-water mark of defendant's efforts to act as an unregistered agent for the Iraqi government was her delivery of a letter in January 2003 to the home of an unspecified *561 government official, in what is described even in the indictment as "an unsuccessful effort to influence United States foreign policy." (Indictment ¶3n)
...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/46046645/US-v-Susan-Lindauer-NYSD-448-F-Supp-2d-558-2006
Here are a pair of articles on her situation from "Scoop" Independent News:
American Cassandra - Susan Lindauers Story
Wednesday, 17 October 2007, 2:43 pm
Article: Michael Collins
Susan Lindauer sent her eleventh and last letter on the Iraqi political situation to then Bush chief of staff Andrew Card on January 6, 2003, just two months before General Franks gave the command to invade on March 20, 2003. Shed sent ten other letters on Iraq to Card, her second cousin, over a two year period.
...
Rather than being sent back to the prison facility, she spent four months at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan. Finally, on Sept. 8, 2006 she was released by order of Judge Mukasey. He flatly denied the U.S. Attorneys request for forced medication, noting contradictory opinions on diagnosis and poor support for the efficacy of the medication recommended by court appointed and prosecution experts.
His opinion and order implied that there was not much of case against her: There is no indication that Lindauer ever came close to influencing anyone, or could have. Opinion and Order, Judge Michael B. Mukasey, Sept. 6, 2006
The Judge ordered that Lindauer be released from jail. She remains free to this day. Through former U.S. Attorney Brian Schaunnessy of Washington, D.C., she is seeking a trial on the charges levied and sees that as a public forum to verify her story and clear her name.
...
Here is a link to the above article: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0710/S00266.htm .
Also, here is a link to the letter that is mentioned in this article: http://img.scoop.co.nz/media/pdfs/0710/LindauerToCardLetterJan2003.pdf .
Wednesday, 17 October 2007, 2:43 pm
Article: Michael Collins
Above all, you must realize that if you go ahead with this invasion, Osama bin Laden will triumph, rising from his grave or seclusion. His network will be swollen with fresh recruits, and other charismatic individuals will seek to build upon his model, multiplying those networks. And the United States will have delivered the death blow to itself. Using your own act of war, Osama and his cohort will irrevocably divide the hearts and minds of the Arab Street from moderate governments in Islamic countries that have been holding back the tide. Power to the people, what we call democracy, will secure the rise of fundamentalists. Susan Lindauers last letter to Andrew Card, January 6, 2003*
Susan Lindauer sent her eleventh and last letter on the Iraqi political situation to then Bush chief of staff Andrew Card on January 6, 2003, just two months before General Franks gave the command to invade on March 20, 2003. Shed sent ten other letters on Iraq to Card, her second cousin, over a two year period.
...
Rather than being sent back to the prison facility, she spent four months at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan. Finally, on Sept. 8, 2006 she was released by order of Judge Mukasey. He flatly denied the U.S. Attorneys request for forced medication, noting contradictory opinions on diagnosis and poor support for the efficacy of the medication recommended by court appointed and prosecution experts.
His opinion and order implied that there was not much of case against her: There is no indication that Lindauer ever came close to influencing anyone, or could have. Opinion and Order, Judge Michael B. Mukasey, Sept. 6, 2006
The Judge ordered that Lindauer be released from jail. She remains free to this day. Through former U.S. Attorney Brian Schaunnessy of Washington, D.C., she is seeking a trial on the charges levied and sees that as a public forum to verify her story and clear her name.
...
Here is a link to the above article: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0710/S00266.htm .
Also, here is a link to the letter that is mentioned in this article: http://img.scoop.co.nz/media/pdfs/0710/LindauerToCardLetterJan2003.pdf .
American Cassandra: Susan Lindauer's Story
Thursday, 12 June 2008, 4:34 pm
Column: Michael Collins
...
The psych evaluation culminated in a finding that she was incompetent to stand trial, on the grounds that she was "deluded" into believing that she had worked as a U.S. asset or would not get convicted. The coup de gras (sic: grâce) was a formal request by federal prosecutors to forcibly drug Lindauer with Haldol in order to cure her of those claims and beliefs, so that she could stand trial. She would be formally cured when she stopped declaring that witnesses would substantiate her story.
...
Lindauer: The other meetings are called "status meetings." It's a formality to show that I'm still in the system. This is the first time I have been granted the right to call witnesses into court to authenticate my story. The Prosecutor has said that I am incompetent to stand trial because I am convinced of my innocence and cannot grasp that I might be convicted. Specifically, the Prosecution has used psychiatry to argue that my belief that I worked as an Asset for the U.S. Government constitutes delusional thinking. In a bizarre legal twist, the Prosecutor has argued that since I am delusional, I should be denied the right to call witnesses to prove that I am telling the Truth. Allegedly, my belief in the existence of witnesses is a function of my delusional belief in my innocence. Is that crazy or what? Talk about Kafkaesque!
...
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0806/S00141.htm
Thursday, 12 June 2008, 4:34 pm
Column: Michael Collins
...
The psych evaluation culminated in a finding that she was incompetent to stand trial, on the grounds that she was "deluded" into believing that she had worked as a U.S. asset or would not get convicted. The coup de gras (sic: grâce) was a formal request by federal prosecutors to forcibly drug Lindauer with Haldol in order to cure her of those claims and beliefs, so that she could stand trial. She would be formally cured when she stopped declaring that witnesses would substantiate her story.
...
Lindauer: The other meetings are called "status meetings." It's a formality to show that I'm still in the system. This is the first time I have been granted the right to call witnesses into court to authenticate my story. The Prosecutor has said that I am incompetent to stand trial because I am convinced of my innocence and cannot grasp that I might be convicted. Specifically, the Prosecution has used psychiatry to argue that my belief that I worked as an Asset for the U.S. Government constitutes delusional thinking. In a bizarre legal twist, the Prosecutor has argued that since I am delusional, I should be denied the right to call witnesses to prove that I am telling the Truth. Allegedly, my belief in the existence of witnesses is a function of my delusional belief in my innocence. Is that crazy or what? Talk about Kafkaesque!
...
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0806/S00141.htm
So, it seems that the background information on her mental condition does not bear up under a cursory examination. Do you have any actual information to which you might refer or can you only cite your own opinion?
Beyond this, it is obvious that she accurately predicted some of the consequences of going to war with Iraq. In what way is she an unreliable source in the context of the OP? All those events have already occurred, and she was largely spot on.
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Above all, you must realize that if you go ahead with this invasion, Osama bin Laden will triumph... [View all]
Octafish
Jul 2013
OP
Susan Lindauer is a mentally ill woman who suffers from psychotic delusions.
geek tragedy
Jul 2013
#2
Your choice to have blind faith in the rantings of a diagnosed schizophrenic
geek tragedy
Jul 2013
#9
Hey, wouldn't you know that Lindauer claims to have been part of the government effort
geek tragedy
Jul 2013
#45
Just to be clear, she claims she used her 'psychic gifts' to spy on Libya and Iraq
geek tragedy
Jul 2013
#56
This while serving as Zoe Loefgrens' press secretary in DC, and being the CIA's main asset
geek tragedy
Jul 2013
#29
The guy's chums with Ghouliani and by extension that fine American convict Bernie Kerik.
Octafish
Jul 2013
#37
He dismissed the charges against her. Which she should have seen coming, given
geek tragedy
Jul 2013
#53
I hadn't heard of her before. I just did a little googling, and found these
Electric Monk
Jul 2013
#11
Whether she's a regular citizen of a super-spy, what the government did to her is disgraceful.
Octafish
Jul 2013
#25
She claims that she used 'psychic gifts' as part of her spy work in her own pleadings.
geek tragedy
Jul 2013
#63
Not crazy. Pentagon and CIA had Remote Viewing programs going on for spy work.
Octafish
Jul 2013
#73
Of course you would say that. Do you believe her story about meeting bin Laden
geek tragedy
Jul 2013
#74
What point are you trying to make by being so nasty? Have you no compassion at all?
rhett o rick
Jul 2013
#13
So you claim it's false. Why should we believe you are more sane than she? nm
rhett o rick
Jul 2013
#34
I know nothing about her other than what you tell me. And I dont trust you.
rhett o rick
Jul 2013
#55
Her own doctor stated she had shown no signs of mental illnesses while incarcerated.
Gravitycollapse
Jul 2013
#47
Are you aware she claims that she used psychic powers to spy on Libya and Iraq
geek tragedy
Jul 2013
#52
Never had the experience. But, there's a mountain of evidence that she's nuts.
geek tragedy
Jul 2013
#64
Did you know she met bin Laden in the mid 1980's (at 22 years of age) and prevented him from
geek tragedy
Jul 2013
#67
The greatest threat that ME ever posed against us is what would befall ourselves if we attacked it
MrScorpio
Jul 2013
#20
Thanks for the post of that video. I was largely unfamiliar with her situation until a poster
xocet
Jul 2013
#89
Susan Lindauer foresaw what the cabal foresaw imo: all the ingredients for creating perpetual war
indepat
Jul 2013
#24
Interesting...Did you join just to post that comment? How about some background information?
xocet
Jul 2013
#77
A known prediction does not require its author to be reliable - anyone can judge its truth value....
xocet
Jul 2013
#83
That is some pure BS that you are spouting now. You did not even address the post.
xocet
Jul 2013
#85