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In reply to the discussion: Daniel Ellsberg's Downfall: A Trifecta of Shilling, Conspiracy Theories, and Lies - People's View [View all]ucrdem
(15,720 posts)162. Yes, that's an excellent review and a commendable summary.
I couldn't have chosen a better one. I highly recommend both review and book. Quoting for the journal:
JFK and the Unspeakable, by James W. Douglass
Reviewed by James DiEugenio | http://www.ctka.net/2008/jfk_unspeakable.html
Reviewed by James DiEugenio | http://www.ctka.net/2008/jfk_unspeakable.html
Since DiEugenio has nicely captured Douglass' thesis -- basically that JFK was eliminated by the CIA and Joint Chiefs for what they perceived as his traitorous reluctance to engage in military operations, particularly against Castro and Khrushchev -- and also his account of JFK's role in the Ngo brothers' assassinations, I won't rehearse either here. I'll simply add that Douglass supports his account with meticulous documentation that sets his book apart from even the best JFK bios including my other two favorites, Brothers by David Talbot and Profile of Power by Richard Reeves. I strongly recommend all three.
As to your question about Douglass' connection to Snowden's tale of NSA spying: since the thread is about Ellsberg let me start with him, simplifying a bit to save space. Douglass makes extensive use of the Pentagon Papers and Ellsberg's later work including Secrets, a 2002 memoir, as sources, and does not to my knowledge openly question Ellsberg's bona fides. However he does mention some interesting information, including that as a Pentagon analyst working on the PP in 1967, Ellsberg was greatly perplexed by JFK's steadfast refusal to commit troops to Vietnam when urgently requested by the Joint Chiefs, so much so that he sought out Bobby Kennedy for an interview and confronted him with this question:
Why, Ellsberg asked him, had President Kennedy rejected both ground troops and a formal commitment to victory in Vietnam, thereby "rejecting the urgent advice of every one of his top military and civilian officials"? Robert Kennedy answered that his brother was absolutely determined never to send ground combat units to Vietnam, because if he did, the U. S. would be in the same spot as the French -- whites against Asians, in a war against nationalism and self-determination. (Douglass p. 108, quotation from Ellsberg's Secrets)
That was in 1967. Nixon won in 1968, covertly bombed Cambodia after secretly subverting Paris peace talks, and the Vietnam war roared on. Then in 1971, it as time for reelection, and along came RAND-Pentagon alumnus Ellsberg peddling his Pentagon Papers, parts of which he himself had written, exposing and humiliating not Nixon but LBJ and to a lesser extent Kennedy. Nixon won reelection 1972, and the war rolled on until Nixon tried to end it, at which point Watergate, also featuring Ellsberg in a symbolic but non-speaking role, took care of Nixon.
So the long and the short of my analysis is that Ellsberg is a very dubious character who may or may not be the peacenik he claims to be. He wasn't in 1967, by his own account -- the RFK interview goes on in that vein, with Ellsberg determined to find out what had made JFK tick -- and his glorious deed in 1971 seems to have helped assure Nixon's reelection. Cut to Oct. 2012, and as I've already posted in this thread, Ellsberg was very vocally telling potential Obama voters that he himself did not support Obama, had no intention of voting for him, and furthermore that Obama has earned impeachment:
It's not merely understandable, it's entirely appropriate to be enraged at Barack Obama. As I am.
He has often acted outrageously, not merely timidly or "disappointingly."
If impeachment were politically imaginable on constitutional grounds, he's earned it (like George W. Bush, and many of his predecessors!)
It is entirely human to want to punish him, not to "reward" him with another term or a vote that might be taken to express trust, hope or approval.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-ellsberg/obama-swing-states_b_1979321.html
He has often acted outrageously, not merely timidly or "disappointingly."
If impeachment were politically imaginable on constitutional grounds, he's earned it (like George W. Bush, and many of his predecessors!)
It is entirely human to want to punish him, not to "reward" him with another term or a vote that might be taken to express trust, hope or approval.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-ellsberg/obama-swing-states_b_1979321.html
Since Obama is in my view the most reluctant dispatcher of US military forces since JFK -- or better put, the most successful pursuer of what JFK had called the strategy of peace -- I have to say that in this most recent instance, again, Ellsberg's weirdly wire-crossed pronouncements do not strike me as sincerely motivated.
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Daniel Ellsberg's Downfall: A Trifecta of Shilling, Conspiracy Theories, and Lies - People's View [View all]
flamingdem
Jul 2013
OP
Could you link to an example of Alex Jones, Rand Paul type of material?
Luminous Animal
Jul 2013
#61
Says the guy that spends 99% of his posts trying to hijack the topic and make it about gay marriage.
phleshdef
Jul 2013
#13
Oh, so advocacy for equality bothers you, and semi pornographic comments about auto erotic
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2013
#18
No. Hijacking topics that have nothing to do with the topic of equality bothers me.
phleshdef
Jul 2013
#24
So stop Hijacking this thread. You should link when you accuse you are utterly mischaracterizing
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2013
#29
Well you hijacked this thread with 'auto fellatio' comments, and that was not the first such post of
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2013
#46
What I notice is that the OP does not respond at all, instead a tight group of others come
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2013
#36
Did it ever occur to you that maybe the OP hasn't been back to his/her computer in the past few hrs?
phleshdef
Jul 2013
#43
Of course. Did it ever occur to you that the OP might be the author of the blog posted?
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2013
#48
Hyperboblic mendacity. Prove your assertion if you can. You can't, so you won't.
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2013
#32
I have tremendous respect for anyone who can self-fellate and still accomplish anything. n/t
hootinholler
Jul 2013
#79
i've noticed that when people have no real argument, they turn to personal remarks & armchair
HiPointDem
Jul 2013
#41
That particular one rarely (maybe never?) contributes more than empty snark. (no text)
Quantess
Jul 2013
#89
Who is this mediocre McCarthyite you are quoting? Front Group? Seriously? Does he know what
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2013
#6
This OP poster never responds but the same set of 'volunteers' responds for him.
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2013
#25
Your speculation on someone's privacy--i.e., the OP's identity, is quite ironic in a Snowden thread.
msanthrope
Jul 2013
#27
After a day of researching irony, it looks like she or he has come up empty.
Luminous Animal
Jul 2013
#123
Again with this extremist website, which is often the source of anti-left propaganda. The author
sabrina 1
Jul 2013
#28
The other day I had one of these conservative "dems" answer me with a link to heritage.org
Dragonfli
Jul 2013
#139
Snowden/Greenwald opponents had been trying not to smear Ellsberg, an American hero
Blue Bike
Jul 2013
#58
This has to be among the most shameless posts I've ever seen on DU . . .
markpkessinger
Jul 2013
#68
I need a shower and lots of soap. I just sifted through that pile of dog shit blog
cali
Jul 2013
#73
You forgot the "Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of....?" part.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Jul 2013
#75
Two weeks before the Nov. 2012 election, Ellsberg called for Obama's IMPEACHMENT:
ucrdem
Jul 2013
#82
Brother CATO and brother RAND backing brother Booz-Allen, now there's a surprise
ucrdem
Jul 2013
#86
Yet, in the same article, he's urging people in swing states to vote for him.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Jul 2013
#96
He makes it crystal clear that "I don't support Obama" and he "does not intend to vote for" him. nt
ucrdem
Jul 2013
#105
Everyone who criticizes the intelligence services turns out to be real creeps - every time!
Douglas Carpenter
Jul 2013
#100
Well Amy Goodman and Juan Gonzales have been right-wing shills for a long time
Douglas Carpenter
Jul 2013
#103
"Well Amy Goodman and Juan Gonzales have been right-wing shills for a long time"
marmar
Jul 2013
#126
In Feb1971 Ellsberg discussed the study with NYT Excerpts started being published on Jun 13, 1971
Douglas Carpenter
Jul 2013
#109
Nixon won reelection in 1972 with the fourth-largest margin of victory in history
ucrdem
Jul 2013
#110
C'mon, Douglas. Think really really really hard and you too can find bliss
Luminous Animal
Jul 2013
#119
actually Daniel Elllsberg campaigned night and day for McGovern in 1972
Douglas Carpenter
Jul 2013
#120
Have you read the comments? They even mock Meteor Blades from DKos. This is full-on right wing BS!
FourScore
Jul 2013
#125
There was a good reason why Spanden C (author of the linked article) was banned from Kos.
Luminous Animal
Jul 2013
#133
Wow, the author is an idiot and their wording shows their obvious bias/hatred. Just dumb.
The Straight Story
Jul 2013
#150
So now we link to right wing rag sites here on DU and attempt to lend credibility to their BS?
NorthCarolina
Jul 2013
#152