General Discussion

Igel

(37,493 posts)

98. Yes. I rather liked that book.

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 11:55 AM

Jul 2013

It was probably the first entire book I ever read in Russian. Thin little tome.

He was off by a few years. Ridiculed horribly by Sovietologists. Then again in 1991 or 1992 I was at a AAASS meeting in which the panel discussion was essentially, "How did we screw up so badly?" in predicting that the USSR was stable and would be around for many decades to come.

The old men said they hadn't. Or they cited their work saying that there was uncertainty. Or that they hedged their bets. Often they cited stuff from the last minute or a hedge in the second to last paragraph of a 300-page book or the footnote of a masterful article demonstrating that the USSR was solid as a rock.

One young guy who got his PhD young, had a job, and wasn't going into academia just railed against them--both for screwing up so massively and being unable to admit it. It was amusing to watch him laugh when they made some far-fetched ass-covering claim.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

179 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Remember the old Soviet Union? [View all] SheilaT Jul 2013 OP

but atleast we have over 400 TV stations olddots Jul 2013 #1

And I-shit! - nt HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #87

I remember. I was playing chess with some Russians back in the day The Straight Story Jul 2013 #2

Do you remember those Radio Free Europe public service announcements? Art_from_Ark Jul 2013 #3

"We were not so different then, and less so now..." Kolesar Jul 2013 #29

You are discussing details The Straight Story Jul 2013 #33

flag colored glasses Kolesar Jul 2013 #35

Oh, I know it was worse than it is here NOW The Straight Story Jul 2013 #39

So, when were the golden years of USA freedom? geek tragedy Jul 2013 #75

indeed. cali Jul 2013 #79

Yessirrrreeeee! ReRe Jul 2013 #134

The US is freer than at any time in its history. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #136

You mean when the government was keeping dossiers on nuns who were for (gasp) peace? Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #161

"we need passports to go to Canada" as opposed to being SHOT for trying to leave the USSR. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #55

That was all true in the 1950's America, 1960's America, etc etc. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #53

I do remember. bluedigger Jul 2013 #4

"Over there, they don't know the truth. The newspapers tell them what to think." NBachers Jul 2013 #5

Yes. That is why I am so appalled by the fact that the Obama administration is arresting JDPriestly Jul 2013 #6

But passing a bill does make it law. COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #48

True. But as I pointed out, people accepted segregation as the law for a long, long time JDPriestly Jul 2013 #131

I agree. You can either work to change the law so that it COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #133

We're worse? Really? MirrorAshes Jul 2013 #7

Soviet Union under Stalin had an incarceration rate of about 800 per 100,000 davidn3600 Jul 2013 #10

Thank you... ReRe Jul 2013 #15

What percentage of the U.S. prison Jenoch Jul 2013 #70

Depends who you talk to. Igel Jul 2013 #89

"If you look at those arrested for political views per se, pretty much none." Jenoch Jul 2013 #100

But the US has it set up so that it doesnt take much to be convicted of a crime anymore davidn3600 Jul 2013 #142

I have family who lived through the Jenoch Jul 2013 #143

At least in the US it is actually pursuant to conviction of crime treestar Jul 2013 #129

Those Data From Stalinist Russia Come From Where? ProfessorGAC Jul 2013 #137

Under Stalin 1.7 MILLION died in gulags. Another 799,455 were executed outright. DevonRex Jul 2013 #139

Damn right. DeSwiss Jul 2013 #14

So, when is Obama going to send you to a Gulag and have your family shot geek tragedy Jul 2013 #56

Seriously. n/t MirrorAshes Jul 2013 #97

This crap is becoming the norm on neoDU. It's horribly embarrassing. nt tridim Jul 2013 #102

Unrec treestar Jul 2013 #8

I'll second that. great white snark Jul 2013 #19

guess the "Stasi" did not work either treestar Jul 2013 #23

& this is Ms. Unhappy's climax of a decade of DUing. Kolesar Jul 2013 #30

YUP ... up next ... comparisons to Mao and China. JoePhilly Jul 2013 #47

LOL great white snark Jul 2013 #50

Perfect!! JoePhilly Jul 2013 #58

Pol Pot is the next logical step I think. nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #59

If they go there JustAnotherGen Jul 2013 #156

Just keep telling yourself that. hobbit709 Jul 2013 #24

What does that mean? treestar Jul 2013 #123

"What does it all mean, Mr. Natural?" hobbit709 Jul 2013 #124

People around here have seriously lost their freakin' minds. Scurrilous Jul 2013 #105

Well said oberliner Jul 2013 #166

+1 JustAnotherGen Jul 2013 #154

America was never that great. Starry Messenger Jul 2013 #9

Just like how conservatives claim the 1950s were the golden age davidn3600 Jul 2013 #12

McCarthyism was rampant during the Red Scare and black listings of actors, comedians, and others. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #22

Was not institutional though, in that the Civil Rights Movement was able to take place treestar Jul 2013 #126

And we weren't so wonderful to Native Americans... polichick Jul 2013 #159

Americans were free to criticize the USSR, but those who criticized the USA, well they got their own leveymg Jul 2013 #11

Yes, there is virtually no one who criticizes the US government in our society. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #65

There are 2 approaches to police states: Big Brother and Great Fear leveymg Jul 2013 #71

If people aren't punished for their political beliefs or disabled from geek tragedy Jul 2013 #72

Even dissent can be an instrument of Big Brother. Goldstein was actually a double agent, and the leveymg Jul 2013 #76

So, is Skinner working for the government then? geek tragedy Jul 2013 #78

We all are, quite willingly, because expression of difference is a shared psychological need leveymg Jul 2013 #95

A lot of busted unions, detained peace activists, brutalized Occupiers, and jailed environmentalists NuclearDem Jul 2013 #168

What rights did unions have in the USSR? nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #169

Wasn't defending the USSR. Nice deflection, though. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #170

Yes, that was rampant. Kent State was repeated on college campuses and towns cali Jul 2013 #80

Most people don't remember Jackson State that happened the same weekend. leveymg Jul 2013 #111

Where's the photos of the 101st Airborne? telclaven Jul 2013 #81

One doesn't forgive the other or disprove the point. leveymg Jul 2013 #112

This message was self-deleted by its author ReRe Jul 2013 #13

I got so see some of the last of those lines. Igel Jul 2013 #90

This message was self-deleted by its author ReRe Jul 2013 #132

I will JustAnotherGen Jul 2013 #160

The Soviets had a tradition of 'samokritica'--self-criticism pinboy3niner Jul 2013 #16

Thank You For Sharing - Yes We Have Become Our Worst Fears cantbeserious Jul 2013 #17

Remember how they dragged sick grannies off to prison for smoking a plant? Remember when they Warren DeMontague Jul 2013 #18

This message was self-deleted by its author LumosMaxima Jul 2013 #20

nobody is going to send you to die digging a canal in the Arctic, Maximo...eom Kolesar Jul 2013 #27

This message was self-deleted by its author LumosMaxima Jul 2013 #32

" all those evils committed by Communist governments -- are happening here now." Kolesar Jul 2013 #36

This message was self-deleted by its author LumosMaxima Jul 2013 #37

Sheila the O/P really blew this one...eom Kolesar Jul 2013 #38

No, the appeal to glandular anti-government and anti-American hatred geek tragedy Jul 2013 #66

Yes, I remember. It's one of the reason I have been so appalled with the actions our Cleita Jul 2013 #21

I've been living 8 years now in the former USSR... MattSh Jul 2013 #25

I bet she never met anyone who experienced the Holocaust either. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #67

I've met holocaust deniers. Igel Jul 2013 #92

Project much? MattSh Jul 2013 #107

You're denying that the USSR was a totalitarian regime that had zero tolerance for dissent. nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #109

Only those born before 1970 would remember much of these people. Igel Jul 2013 #91

I'll bet they called your teacher a rootless cosmopolite, to boot. Hekate Jul 2013 #162

I read the Gulag Archipelago and you didn't ... eom Kolesar Jul 2013 #26

Actually, I have read all three volumes SheilaT Jul 2013 #120

You become what you hate. bemildred Jul 2013 #28

Except the USSR died 25 years ago. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #64

No, we are not worse than the old Soviet Union, or even the new Russia. n/t pnwmom Jul 2013 #31

Unrec. Pointless exaggeration. FSogol Jul 2013 #34

The visiting Republicans would say DU, DailyKos, New York, and Chicago ... eom Kolesar Jul 2013 #40

Where would America's Siberia be? GliderGuider Jul 2013 #41

Yes and no. Igel Jul 2013 #94

Russia is not a friend to civil rights. MineralMan Jul 2013 #42

Where is the "blind praise" in the OP? GliderGuider Jul 2013 #45

You're right, it's delusional hate of the United States and its government. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #57

But we're "worse than the old Soviet Union?" MineralMan Jul 2013 #113

Whatever your opinion on that, GliderGuider Jul 2013 #119

I see. Thanks. MineralMan Jul 2013 #121

"we are even worse than the old Soviet Union" Huh?? DCBob Jul 2013 #43

Neil Young got it right: GliderGuider Jul 2013 #44

But I thought we were Nazi Germany? JoePhilly Jul 2013 #46

The mouth-foamers are running out of hyperbole. nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #54

They have gone so far around the bend ... JoePhilly Jul 2013 #61

The paranoids have always had a lot more in common than they realized. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #63

Gulag Archipelago. Javaman Jul 2013 #49

How about this... Fearless Jul 2013 #51

So now Obama is Stalin, and America is now Amerika.. DU has become the Tea Party geek tragedy Jul 2013 #52

Is the implication here that the US has NO REASON arrest or even question Snowden? nt kelliekat44 Jul 2013 #60

The implication is that the Tea party is right about Obama. When we warned people geek tragedy Jul 2013 #62

Andrei Amalrik wrote 'Will the Soviet Union Survive until 1984?' Octafish Jul 2013 #68

Yes. I rather liked that book. Igel Jul 2013 #98

MI-Complex needed USSR to justify its budget. Octafish Jul 2013 #117

Communi$t, Terrori$t, the Briti$h Are Coming! leftstreet Jul 2013 #174

Well we don't have to stand in line to buy bread or TP. Autumn Jul 2013 #69

Nonsense but DU does have an "America sucks" clique that will eat it up. great white snark Jul 2013 #73

Is this your honest opinion snooper2 Jul 2013 #74

Remember Alexander Solzhenitsyn? cali Jul 2013 #77

And yet Solzhenitsyn said that he had it easy. Igel Jul 2013 #99

Rofl. "Worse than the old Soviet Union." Skinner Jul 2013 #82

Nothing ignorant at all. Some people recognize where the nation is heading. Octafish Jul 2013 #83

The OP is using the present tense. Skinner Jul 2013 #84

I took an undergrad course in Solzhenitsyn Kolesar Jul 2013 #86

Absolutely. And it's 39 recs now. Number23 Jul 2013 #150

Thanks for posting. I was sure you'd been sent to Siberia. JoePhilly Jul 2013 #96

+1 thanks Skinner RZM Jul 2013 #106

No shame here. Some posters rec. for the conversational content. canoeist52 Jul 2013 #110

"Russia: Worst Human Rights Climate In Post-Soviet Era" (HRW) DevonRex Jul 2013 #118

+1 Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #125

What's sad is that you probably think that's accurate Recursion Jul 2013 #85

O/P isn't participating on her thread any more. Kolesar Jul 2013 #88

I simply don't spend as much time here SheilaT Jul 2013 #122

Aren't you worried about being arrested by the Obamastapo for criticizing geek tragedy Jul 2013 #127

I just noticed the date on the OP Adsos Letter May 2015 #178

and that is exactly why Snowden chose to go to China, Russia and now maybe Venezuela Sheepshank Jul 2013 #93

682,000 people shot from 1937-38 RZM Jul 2013 #101

I think comparing the Soviet Union Jenoch Jul 2013 #103

to become like Russia, we would have to lower our incarceration rate markiv Jul 2013 #104

Well, plus the millions who were deliberately starved to death due to Stalin's ag policy. nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #108

Over 80,000 in solitary confinement right now. Catherina Jul 2013 #115

She said the Soviet Union. Stalin alone murdered MILLIONS in gulags. DevonRex Jul 2013 #140

Sureveillance wise, we sure are. Starving people? We sure are. Catherina Jul 2013 #114

OMG this is fucking ridiculous. DevonRex Jul 2013 #116

Didn't I see you marching the other day? BeyondGeography Jul 2013 #128

Down memory lane where a one party Progressive dog Jul 2013 #130

I saw Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev (his motorcade) once. 1-Old-Man Jul 2013 #135

The Tea Party, Ron Paul, and all of his supporters fully agree with you. nt. NCTraveler Jul 2013 #138

When is the US going to sequester an area the size of the Ukraine and take away all the food? Hekate Jul 2013 #141

My relatives were starved to death and SheilaT makes light of it...eom Kolesar Jul 2013 #148

Exactly what do think the US did when it sequestered all of the land occupied dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #149

That was 150 or something years ago. Dash87 Jul 2013 #167

Soviet Russia, where road forks you? Apophis Jul 2013 #144

Duck and cover Life Long Dem Jul 2013 #145

I really do want to thank everyone for the discussion SheilaT Jul 2013 #146

Anyone who says the US is worse than the Soviet Union was doesn't remember it. (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2013 #147

Excellent. Except for the last sentence, which is utter BS. Ask Solzhenitzen. kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #151

You know nothing about us or the Soviet Union arely staircase Jul 2013 #152

But, she'll get a lot .. "right on!" Cha Jul 2013 #164

I don't know JustAnotherGen Jul 2013 #153

!!! zappaman Jul 2013 #155

I love that pic! JustAnotherGen Jul 2013 #157

Yeah, there's some of our guys in charge Cha Jul 2013 #165

revising history for snowden sigmasix Jul 2013 #158

Your burning stupid hyperbole weakens any point you're Cha Jul 2013 #163

"burning stupid hyperbole" zappaman Jul 2013 #171

Hahahaha!!!!!!!!! Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #172

thanks zappa.. I thought Cha Jul 2013 #173

Post removed Post removed May 2015 #175

My cousin was in the Air Force stationed in England in 1959. He ran across a travel Cleita May 2015 #177

You seriously know nothing at all about SheilaT May 2015 #179

I also remember how we were brainwashed into believing that communism was Cleita May 2015 #176