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krispos42

(49,445 posts)

90. Then we're in agreement.

Reply to MrSlayer (Reply #69)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:03 AM

Jul 2013

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If you have a gun and the other guy doesn't . . . [View all] Brigid Jul 2013 OP

I would think that too. madashelltoo Jul 2013 #1

Is he expected to just keep being beaten up? dkf Jul 2013 #2

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jul 2013 #3

Too late. What is done is done. dkf Jul 2013 #5

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jul 2013 #7

Even if it resulted in death huh? dkf Jul 2013 #10

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jul 2013 #16

Maybe because he shot TM. dkf Jul 2013 #25

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jul 2013 #27

Yeah I am a coward...I would have shot someone who was slamming me into the ground too. dkf Jul 2013 #75

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jul 2013 #80

Obviously that wouldn't be right. dkf Jul 2013 #104

Why are you assuming this man thinks like an average person? NoOneMan Jul 2013 #110

He makes more sense to me than everyone who would let their head be repeatedly slammed into sidewalk dkf Jul 2013 #113

The very fact a 160lb kid with 1 free arm could do that means he was letting it happen NoOneMan Jul 2013 #116

Just wondering, have you ever had your head slammed into a sidewalk? Scootaloo Jul 2013 #142

I have. I have a hard head though. Quick blackness for me NoOneMan Jul 2013 #149

Exactly Scootaloo Jul 2013 #161

I don't necessarily disagree anomiep Jul 2013 #163

Not true. I was in a fight where I was doing the head slamming TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #219

Show the evidence that his head was repeatedly slammed. He had a couple of lightly bleeding 1monster Jul 2013 #217

Assuming he was being slammed into the ground repeatedly without miraculously getting a concussion NoOneMan Jul 2013 #83

Yet. You don't know it would have ended dkf Jul 2013 #109

If I was a nut enough to get into that situation why give a fuck about what I thought in the moment? NoOneMan Jul 2013 #111

Obviously he didn't know what he was getting in to. dkf Jul 2013 #115

He doesn't know what he got himself into still NoOneMan Jul 2013 #117

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jul 2013 #131

you would have been well advised to stay in your fucking truck as well frylock Jul 2013 #134

You are correct, we (and the jury) don't know what happened Travis_0004 Jul 2013 #176

No full grown man - even one in the midst of an ass kicking - thinks for a second he will be alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #41

Really? pipoman Jul 2013 #54

Zero, evidently. Lex Jul 2013 #63

Are people seriously trying to justify murder Just Saying Jul 2013 #68

Yes, because they are cowards Lex Jul 2013 #70

Yeah, really alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #72

Just can't discuss this or anything else civilly, eh? pipoman Jul 2013 #82

Hit alert alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #84

I like to let silliness (in the clinical sense) remain for all to see.. pipoman Jul 2013 #86

keep posting then, buddy alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #87

you think the right to self defense only applies to gun humpers Skittles Jul 2013 #210

+1 Lex Jul 2013 #93

Maybe if we didn't let any insecure men strap a gun on them.... (or any at all) NoOneMan Jul 2013 #99

26. NoOneMan Jul 2013 #102

This ^^ Just Saying Jul 2013 #64

Whether he thinks so or not anomiep Jul 2013 #189

Of course it happens alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #207

Sure anomiep Jul 2013 #212

Learned a valuable lesson Just Saying Jul 2013 #8

Seriously, these people think.. RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #13

Then you disagree with the law. You don't believe in a right to self defense. dkf Jul 2013 #18

I don't believe only an armed person has that right. N/t Just Saying Jul 2013 #21

No they both had that right. dkf Jul 2013 #32

There's no evidence that TM hit Z either. Just Saying Jul 2013 #38

How did Zimmerman know that Martin was unarmed? Jenoch Jul 2013 #39

Zimmerman was breaking the rules by carrying the gun on neighborhood watch duty to begin with. Brigid Jul 2013 #47

Why would he follow Trayvon at all? Just Saying Jul 2013 #49

I don't think Zimmerman Jenoch Jul 2013 #57

Mmmhmmm Just Saying Jul 2013 #62

I too believe Zimmerman Jenoch Jul 2013 #85

A manslaughter conviction doesn't make sense to me anomiep Jul 2013 #119

I mean anomiep Jul 2013 #121

It sure is confusing. Jenoch Jul 2013 #122

It's only my opinion on the logical implications of the jury instruction as written anomiep Jul 2013 #125

and, of course, now I think of a way. anomiep Jul 2013 #133

Me neither. I am stuck on this question also. dkf Jul 2013 #158

he knew because he got out of his truck.. frylock Jul 2013 #136

The kid still had the bag of Skittles in one of his perfectly clean, dead hands. displacedtexan Jul 2013 #181

I don't know. Jenoch Jul 2013 #185

Lol, I disagree with many laws. RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #22

No proof Z initiated physical contact. dkf Jul 2013 #42

Did I mention Z? RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #46

Actually that's not even the law. dkf Jul 2013 #55

What would those circumstances be? RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #60

I believe it is of you attempt to retreat but are unable to do so... dkf Jul 2013 #65

Just one question.... all american girl Jul 2013 #175

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jul 2013 #24

he's a scary black teenager...that's the high and low of it alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #43

I'm an elderly white female FloridaJudy Jul 2013 #162

He did. If they tussled over he gun and he shot z dkf Jul 2013 #51

Trayvon must have super vision Just Saying Jul 2013 #59

Possibly a justified murderer though. dkf Jul 2013 #74

no TM dna on gun.. frylock Jul 2013 #137

Does Trayvon Martin have a right to self defense? Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #26

Self Defense FloridaJudy Jul 2013 #107

You are making up your own rules. dkf Jul 2013 #151

They're just convincing me they shouldn't be carrying guns at all. Just Saying Jul 2013 #20

Every state has self defense laws. dkf Jul 2013 #152

Right Just Saying Jul 2013 #183

And if he had killed Zimmerman he could have claimed self defense. dkf Jul 2013 #188

You do realize how messed up that sounds? Just Saying Jul 2013 #192

Yes. In a deadly fight. dkf Jul 2013 #193

It wasn't a deadly fight Just Saying Jul 2013 #194

You don't know that. No one does. Was it impossible for TM to have done enough damage dkf Jul 2013 #195

I base my conclusion Just Saying Jul 2013 #197

I'm not defending the guy I am applying the evidence to the law. dkf Jul 2013 #198

Run away. RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #11

What you believe is meaningless in this context.. pipoman Jul 2013 #77

Really? Here I thought our discussion would impactthe jury's decision! RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #169

For as many people hereabouts pipoman Jul 2013 #179

He was told stay put Blackford Jul 2013 #17

Not really Carlpatrick Jul 2013 #81

You wouldn't make it to the jury. CokeMachine Jul 2013 #112

Might be too late to undo it, but ... Kennah Jul 2013 #159

Not really onenote Jul 2013 #167

If he initiated the physical confrontation... krispos42 Jul 2013 #23

But there is no evidence of that. dkf Jul 2013 #127

The stalking (while armed) might well be the evidence needed krispos42 Jul 2013 #143

What he did was not "stalking" in the legal sense. dkf Jul 2013 #148

I know. I'm not using it in the paparazzi sense krispos42 Jul 2013 #180

But that's not illegal. dkf Jul 2013 #182

You can if you think the person is about to attack you krispos42 Jul 2013 #184

Really? How would you establish that fact to the police? dkf Jul 2013 #186

Not a lawyer. krispos42 Jul 2013 #190

Speculation. I wondering if it was legal for TM to punch Z in the face if that was first contact. dkf Jul 2013 #191

I guess now it doesn't matter, does it? krispos42 Jul 2013 #221

under florida law, the right to stand your ground requires onenote Jul 2013 #168

I think so NoOneMan Jul 2013 #34

IF Martin was beating Jenoch Jul 2013 #50

A schizophrenic psycho killer doesn't know how far his victims will go. God told them they are satan NoOneMan Jul 2013 #61

I was unaware of Zimmerman's Jenoch Jul 2013 #71

Its a comparison. We cannot set the bar at "crazy" and cater to it NoOneMan Jul 2013 #79

I'm not disagreeing with much of your post. Jenoch Jul 2013 #89

I am not calling him schizophrenic. I am comparing him to a mentally ill individual NoOneMan Jul 2013 #94

I was positive I Jenoch Jul 2013 #96

Or course you did NoOneMan Jul 2013 #97

He was on psychotropic prescription meds, making him an "irresponsible" gun owner. Hoyt Jul 2013 #204

Well why didn't TM stop? dkf Jul 2013 #130

Because he was shot in the heart and killed NoOneMan Jul 2013 #135

He should have stayed in his car. He shouldn't have pursued Martin. doc03 Jul 2013 #58

Assumes he WAS beaten up, unprovoked lolly Jul 2013 #141

He has documented injuries. dkf Jul 2013 #160

"Beaten up" complain jane Jul 2013 #144

First, he wasn't being beaten up TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #146

You've got Zimmy's back, I see. kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #153

I can read and comprehend the law. dkf Jul 2013 #155

what about the right to walk a public road Skittles Jul 2013 #203

There is a crucial amount of time that no one but Zimmerman and the now dead Martin knows justiceischeap Jul 2013 #170

That is entirely speculative with no evidence. dkf Jul 2013 #171

I understand that but as a non-jury member and a person participating in a discussion justiceischeap Jul 2013 #173

So, in your opinion Zimmerman should walk free Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #174

his opinion is the right to self defense only applies to gun humpers Skittles Jul 2013 #209

Can't stand these Zim people beating around the bush Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #211

He shouldn't have started this whole incident is what he should have done. complain jane Jul 2013 #200

LOL Skittles Jul 2013 #201

I agree with you krispos42 Jul 2013 #4

Well said. anomiep Jul 2013 #15

Yes, Zman was well versed in legalities. I wish gun owners Hoyt Jul 2013 #28

"I wish gun owners would quit studying the law to determine when they can shoot people. " Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #30

Well, Zimmerman is a good example, and the gungeoneers sure spend a lot of Hoyt Jul 2013 #37

The counterpoint, though, is that anyone electing to have a gun for self-defense MUST know the law. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #44

A little morality -- and sense of right and wrong -- would be better knowledge. Hoyt Jul 2013 #206

They're not mutually-exclusive. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #215

+1 Just Saying Jul 2013 #40

So you want to whine and bitch about ignorant "Rambo wannabes"... krispos42 Jul 2013 #45

Do they run articles on why yahoos should not carry in public? Hoyt Jul 2013 #56

Their articles stress the seriousness of being armed in public. krispos42 Jul 2013 #78

I strongly agree. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #6

I don't think there's a legal duty for "responsibility to make sure a confrontation doesn't turn Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #9

And you are not talking morality either, but gun folks seldom are. Hoyt Jul 2013 #29

Indeed...in this case in particular, the so-called liberal gun nuts are all hiding behind supposed alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #48

This is a legal case. The law is what matters. Nothing either guy was doing was illegal, Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #88

Yes, gunners are always most interested in how laws are written to protect their use of guns. Hoyt Jul 2013 #178

The onus is definitely on the person with the gun anomiep Jul 2013 #12

Apparently, as long as the only witness is killed, the shooter should be able bushisanidiot Jul 2013 #14

This is kind of a horseshit setup. MrSlayer Jul 2013 #19

That's true, but that's not how most conflicts start krispos42 Jul 2013 #31

Agreed. MrSlayer Jul 2013 #69

Then we're in agreement. krispos42 Jul 2013 #90

Actually, in that case . . . Brigid Jul 2013 #35

That all depends anomiep Jul 2013 #52

Trayvon Martin had the sidewalk: that's how the analogy makes sense alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #53

Shoot first laws are horseshit to begin with Major Nikon Jul 2013 #67

No doubt. MrSlayer Jul 2013 #73

Well anomiep Jul 2013 #98

Here's the problem I have with these laws Major Nikon Jul 2013 #103

It is not zero benefit anomiep Jul 2013 #114

Reasonable use of force means exactly that Major Nikon Jul 2013 #124

Relentless pursuit is not an exception to a duty to retreat anomiep Jul 2013 #128

Hogwash Major Nikon Jul 2013 #139

Not hogwash anomiep Jul 2013 #145

More hypothetical, less substance Major Nikon Jul 2013 #154

I would suggest to you anomiep Jul 2013 #157

and anomiep Jul 2013 #132

How do you retreat if you are pinned down and calling for help? dkf Jul 2013 #150

I think the lie he told on Sean (Hero of the gungeon) Hannity show Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #33

SO many lies by Zimmerman. Lex Jul 2013 #66

That, and the screaming ending immediately following the sound of the gunshot. Adsos Letter Jul 2013 #118

There's no information there anomiep Jul 2013 #123

I think you are 100% right. Union Scribe Jul 2013 #36

I own guns PD Turk Jul 2013 #76

I wouldn't shoot anyone unless they also had a gun or charged me. Including if someone was in my brewens Jul 2013 #91

No warning shots anomiep Jul 2013 #100

My advice is that warning shots are never a good idea. ... spin Jul 2013 #120

A very salient point. Old and In the Way Jul 2013 #92

The participant who doesn't fear for his/her life. flvegan Jul 2013 #95

In the South and the West customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #101

That's why I am extremely polite. ... spin Jul 2013 #105

Fuckin' A. Zoeisright Jul 2013 #106

Only One Party had a gun - only one had complete control of the situation. Old and In the Way Jul 2013 #108

The premise that having a gun means having complete control of the situation anomiep Jul 2013 #140

Well, if you are a cop it doesn't matter. You shoot first for your own safety The Straight Story Jul 2013 #126

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jul 2013 #129

Fortunately anomiep Jul 2013 #138

I'm a female. If some random guy starts following me home complain jane Jul 2013 #147

No. You are not threatening his life or his health. ... spin Jul 2013 #165

Okay. complain jane Jul 2013 #199

It depends on the circumstances anomiep Jul 2013 #213

Also - anomiep Jul 2013 #214

how about if you attack someone because they pull a gun on you? Skittles Jul 2013 #216

If that happens you have good reason to fear for your health or your life. ... spin Jul 2013 #220

If you wouldn't go somewhere WITHOUT a gun, make damned sure you don't go there WITH a gun. Kennah Jul 2013 #156

Truth anomiep Jul 2013 #164

You should add one thing to your list ... spin Jul 2013 #166

I think that it's a little bit more than that MrScorpio Jul 2013 #172

Clearly. You are correct. geckosfeet Jul 2013 #177

Depends who starts the confrontation. nt hack89 Jul 2013 #187

The attacker always assumes responsibility. ileus Jul 2013 #196

But. but, but liberal N proud Jul 2013 #202

isn't it something? Skittles Jul 2013 #205

If a gunfighter in the old west shot B Calm Jul 2013 #208

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #218