General Discussion

Pholus

(4,062 posts)

183. The absense of interest in this discussion is important...

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 07:47 AM

Jul 2013

Dismissed as "paranoid fantasies" with a libertarian bent. I've been "outed" several times as a Randian this last week as if that means a victory is won.

Never mind we had the same "paranoid fantasies" during Bush -- and as it turns out he was doing exactly that.

The luminaries in this thread believe we shouldn't worry that something like 75% of Total Information Awareness still definitely exists and probably its closer to 90%.

Nor should we be concerned about the new "fact of life" that we live each and ever day as a suspect in this country and will be for the rest of time.

http://business.time.com/2013/06/11/big-brother-is-watching-you-swipe-the-nsas-credit-card-data-grab/

"Based on what we’ve seen so far based on PRISM, that makes me think they’re going to be looking at weapons-making capability,” Pascual says. As the Boston Marathon bombings illustrate, a tactic today’s terrorists use to stay under the radar is using common purchases (pressure cooker, nails, ball bearings) to create weapons. A red flag may be raised with the NSA if agents detect several of these everyday items being purchased at the same time and/or in unusually large quantities."

Ari Fleischer used to tell us to watch what we say. That's been extended by General Clapper to watch what you buy...

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"US worse than the USSR"? American Amnesia of the worst sort [View all] Hekate Jul 2013 OP

Ask the Native Americans and African Slaves the same questions. We're immaculate. leveymg Jul 2013 #1

Are we worse than the USSR? Hekate Jul 2013 #2

Using unequal time frames doesn't really help your argument. dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #4

I agree, that allows anyone else to bring up slavery Rex Jul 2013 #8

Both in fact. dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #11

Or the internment of Japanese Americans Rex Jul 2013 #48

Yep, those were all horrible things. And the US is STILL not worse than the USSR. renie408 Jul 2013 #58

Never said it was, the OP decided to pick parts of USSR history as an example Rex Jul 2013 #61

I am saying that, as a whole, the US does not have the same history of human rights renie408 Jul 2013 #67

Really? Slavery? The forced relocation of Native Americans? Rex Jul 2013 #70

Seven million dead Ukrainians? renie408 Jul 2013 #74

So you want to keep with the binary thinking, fine. Rex Jul 2013 #75

Do you know what binary thinking is? Cause I don't think you are using that phrase correctly. renie408 Jul 2013 #83

Did you see this much-recced OP in GD Thursday night? Hekate Jul 2013 #165

Are you an American? Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #144

No. dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #173

And modern Russia is much better than the USSR? dbackjon Jul 2013 #134

We have more persons incarcerated. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #18

And many of the incarcerated are in work prisons iemitsu Jul 2013 #128

Beyond better or worse, are we really that different? leveymg Jul 2013 #19

How many punk bands are in jail here for protesting against the President? renie408 Jul 2013 #76

We have genocides on our own hands too. ananda Jul 2013 #3

IMHO you have hit the nail on the head. I have read many replies here. snappyturtle Jul 2013 #125

You are right. We are worse because we are more hypocritical and blind to our own crimes leveymg Jul 2013 #131

Hogwash dbackjon Jul 2013 #135

That does not address the issue. leveymg Jul 2013 #136

What? Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #146

Lol dbackjon Jul 2013 #155

!!!! dionysus Jul 2013 #196

Well said. polichick Jul 2013 #151

Lots of people who rooted for the USSR during the cold war are still bitter. nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #5

Residual self-hatred, perhaps? randome Jul 2013 #7

Snowden and Assange aren't voices of a generation. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #10

Well, they have an 'entourage' called Wikileaks but yes, you're probably right. randome Jul 2013 #14

self-promoters who take aim at low hanging fruit. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #15

That's the thing, it will never happen davidpdx Jul 2013 #181

You mean "the United States of Stasi"? Cha Jul 2013 #174

How is that statement you just made not Red Baiting? leveymg Jul 2013 #139

This isn't an NSA thread. nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #141

Where else could this OP and thread have come from? leveymg Jul 2013 #148

Where could the topic have come from? See link here Hekate Jul 2013 #168

Seems the original for this was from Ann Coulter's "Treason," page 16. Pholus Jul 2013 #215

We are not nearly as bad as the USSR. Not even close. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #6

The USSR was fighting a civil war (funded from the west) nearly right up to ww2. Post WW2 HiPointDem Jul 2013 #24

In upwards of 60 million people died under the Soviet regime from 1917 to 1959. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #35

From 1917 to 1922 a horrible Civil War took place ... Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #36

Both sides summarily executed hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #44

Both sides? Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #54

wtf does 'died under the soviet regime' even mean? all deaths? The first statement referred HiPointDem Jul 2013 #39

Here you go... Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #56

1. that doesn't answer my request. 2. rudy rummel = not a scholar, but a propagandist. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #64

Rummel's calculations are backed up by many other sources. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #69

no. they are 'backed up' by a limited number of sources which all feed on each other. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #77

Is Solzhenitsyn a right-wing propagandist? Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #81

well, he's no leftist. his orientation was religious & nationalist. but let's stick with the topic HiPointDem Jul 2013 #84

You're actually right. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #115

does that mean your claim that "he USSR was a death machine post WWII for many decades" HiPointDem Jul 2013 #133

Uh no. Because population growth has little or nothing to do with killings. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #137

"a death machine" does, in fact, imply decreasing population. "A problem with killings" does not. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #145

No, a death machine implies that it is a machine that produces death. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #153

When you call the post-war USSR a death machine for several decades, which you did, HiPointDem Jul 2013 #154

Are you waxing philosophical or attempting to argue the literal meaning of "death machine?" Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #156

If a country is a death machine, that is not a limited claim. It's a generalized claim. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #157

I actually never claimed that there was a genocide after WWII. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #159

Yeah, Transition. LOL. A 'teachable moment' too I suppose...eom Maximumnegro Jul 2013 #97

Ain't American Amnesia grand? Hekate Jul 2013 #167

Take it from this Snowden supporter: Stalin most certainly carried out genocide in the USSR DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #57

Genocide = "the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or HiPointDem Jul 2013 #59

yep. that's what genocide is. DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #60

you have not yet told me how that definition applies to your post. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #68

here you go: a tableau of Soviet genocide DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #80

no link. my comments in this thread have nothing to do with snowden. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #140

You don't care much about impartial scholarship DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #160

you haven't presented any impartial scholarship. impartial scholarship would mean using the same HiPointDem Jul 2013 #161

Remember what Barbie said when they gave her a voice: "Math is haaard." Hekate Jul 2013 #192

Stalin got away with a lot of it for two reasons... Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #62

He mostly let Molotov and Berea craft the orders, but he was definitley behind it. DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #71

Holodomor/Great Purge denial? That's a new one. (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2013 #100

There's no scholarly consensus about the extent and causes of the Holodomor, other than a famine leveymg Jul 2013 #143

I View It As A Perverse Sort Of 'We're Number One!' Cheerleading For The Ol' U. S. of A., Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2013 #9

Certainly #1 in incarerations dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #20

We Are Number One In Best-Ness, Sir --- Let's See Them Rooskis Top That! The Magistrate Jul 2013 #22

That is because the US is a paragon of the inverted totalitarian system nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #27

I Did Not Say There Were Not Limits, Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2013 #33

There are far more limits than you imagine nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #37

My Obliviousness And Ignorance Are Legend, Ma'am.... The Magistrate Jul 2013 #45

I bow to your legendary obliviousness and ignorance, comrade Hekate Jul 2013 #99

Just jumping in for a second here ConcernedCanuk Jul 2013 #113

My favorites are still the ones claiming North Korea's freer. Posteritatis Jul 2013 #102

Links please. truebluegreen Jul 2013 #184

You are ruining perfectly good faux outrage!!! JoePhilly Jul 2013 #12

This revisionism brings to mind Orwell's notes on Nationalism, specifically the negative nationalism stevenleser Jul 2013 #13

Wow, that's some interesting reading. randome Jul 2013 #16

I thought so when I first saw it too! I never forgot it! stevenleser Jul 2013 #21

a mirror to those who would have us believe that any faction backed by the US is 'right'. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #26

Eric Blair was far from the British Empire's biggest fan. baldguy Jul 2013 #114

nobody 'dismissed' anything. the fact is that the empire creates the frame. the frame sets up HiPointDem Jul 2013 #124

Thanks. Scurrilous Jul 2013 #28

Great post dbackjon Jul 2013 #138

I think DU includes too many people who never paid attention in history class. pnwmom Jul 2013 #17

And those who studied more history, perhaps, from other perspectives. leveymg Jul 2013 #25

Why did you assume I was talking about you? n/t pnwmom Jul 2013 #31

I am envious. You studied under Zinn nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #43

It was my undergrad major Hekate Jul 2013 #38

Yeah, all those books like . . . .. hmmm. Which books did we ban again? pnwmom Jul 2013 #40

You could not be that ignorant... nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #46

Sorry, but you can't be ignorant enough to think that random librarians pnwmom Jul 2013 #50

Dear where do you think those start? nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #55

So they had freedom of the press in the Soviet Union? pnwmom Jul 2013 #82

Early on...yes...from 1918 to about 1920-1 nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #85

Oh wow. For two whole years. They're just like us. pnwmom Jul 2013 #87

But you did not know that nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #92

They had freedom of the press for 2 fucking years in the 1910s and that means they're better? DevonRex Jul 2013 #162

nadin, nadin, nadin... Hekate Jul 2013 #170

Hekate did I say we are at USSR levels? nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #185

just as long as you don't call me "dear" Hekate Jul 2013 #188

Tell you what nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #189

Not a nationalist, just a citizen who thinks we still have a chance for redemption Hekate Jul 2013 #190

See you at next Saturdays's Potluck Iggy Dinner! zappaman Jul 2013 #201

I'll bring guacamole and tortilla chips Hekate Jul 2013 #204

Totally rude. Uncalled for. insulting. DevonRex Jul 2013 #163

My senior seminar professor was a specialist in Japanese-Russian history Hekate Jul 2013 #79

You know...not worst...but in some ways not better nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #23

Some people want the US to collapse. zappaman Jul 2013 #29

Sadly, whether we want it to or not, that is what's happening. Like the USSR, for largely the same leveymg Jul 2013 #32

It's rather like the people praying for the Apocalypse and the Rapture Hekate Jul 2013 #41

agreed. zappaman Jul 2013 #52

Nailed it. nt treestar Jul 2013 #199

Guess you haven't heard about the profiteeting U.S. prisons and its slave labor. nt valerief Jul 2013 #30

The comparison was made to the Soviet Union. Are we worse than the USSR? Hekate Jul 2013 #42

The USSR didn't have Jesus shoved down their throats like we do. nt valerief Jul 2013 #86

Oh, golly. I await the witch trials. And have you seen your neighbors in the stocks lately? Hekate Jul 2013 #93

Try to get an abortion in some states. nt valerief Jul 2013 #94

Try to get an abortion in the USSR, Hero Mother Hekate Jul 2013 #106

And that's the US in a nutshell. nt valerief Jul 2013 #112

They did not have freedom of religion. treestar Jul 2013 #200

But hey, the suppression of all religions means they didn't have Jesus shoved down their throats! Hekate Jul 2013 #207

And we don't have freedom from religion. nt valerief Jul 2013 #209

You can't have that treestar Jul 2013 #212

I should have freedom from it but it's in my pledge of allegiance and on my currency. valerief Jul 2013 #216

Are you required to attend church? Are you required to pray in government buildings and classrooms? Hekate Jul 2013 #217

We've got the largest prison system in the industrialized world. backscatter712 Jul 2013 #103

We don't have to be "as bad as" to point at something and say this is wrong. Agnosticsherbet Jul 2013 #34

Is it a policy to work them to death? "Gulag Archipelago" is eyewitness Hekate Jul 2013 #47

In most states now, it is the policy to work them for profit. Agnosticsherbet Jul 2013 #66

It's a terrible, terrible system. Change it. But the Soviets.... Hekate Jul 2013 #89

No. We just drive them crazy by holding them in solitary confinement for many years. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #108

+1. not just in absolute numbers, but also per capita. and do we work them? yes, we do, & HiPointDem Jul 2013 #49

I know there is no comparison, but I was watching a group of Walmart employees sitting together renie408 Jul 2013 #95

I have friends who recently emigrated from Krasnodar. OilemFirchen Jul 2013 #51

Oh, you'll only confuse them with facts Hekate Jul 2013 #171

It's a mixed bag, really DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #53

I know. Its very wearing. renie408 Jul 2013 #63

Could you please link me to a post in which someone said the US is worse than the USSR? JDPriestly Jul 2013 #110

Literal much? renie408 Jul 2013 #118

But no link to the post that set this OP off. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #126

Did you really think the OP was making it up? renie408 Jul 2013 #178

So you think professor woolin was crazy when he started nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #186

Blah blah blah renie408 Jul 2013 #197

And people who engage in personal attacks nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #198

What is the point in answering you? renie408 Jul 2013 #202

Yay more personal attack nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #203

So, tacking your personal attack to the end of your comment, like you did, makes it OK? renie408 Jul 2013 #205

Here you go. Skinner Jul 2013 #130

Thanks, Skinner renie408 Jul 2013 #177

Some may say that we are worse than the USSR, but . . . Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #218

If you want to talk numbers, there's no comparison. Octafish Jul 2013 #65

Did you just compare living in Detroit to being imprisoned in a Gulag? renie408 Jul 2013 #72

Yes. Octafish Jul 2013 #78

Ok, on that we can agree. renie408 Jul 2013 #88

Yes, and do we even know how many lives were lost in Central America with the U.S. propping up avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #98

William Blum has tried to make an accurate estimate... Octafish Jul 2013 #104

Excellent resource octafish. avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #107

Kick nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #73

It's setting itself up to be spectacularly bad. dairydog91 Jul 2013 #90

The panic is actually palpable. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #91

You go ahead and palpate the panic Hekate Jul 2013 #169

Huh, tried that too. The hyperbole I got back was that I was somehow a "Randian." Pholus Jul 2013 #182

Yes, we are so noted for our intelligent discourse these days. Passion I understand.... Hekate Jul 2013 #187

I would not say we are worse than the USSR. That would be a gross exaggeration. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #96

As long as Taco Bell is open til 1am Maximumnegro Jul 2013 #101

True. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #117

All I can say to this post is...non sensical nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #206

The absense of interest in this discussion is important... Pholus Jul 2013 #183

I believe what happens here is our responsibility Herlong Jul 2013 #105

I hope you weighed in Hekate Jul 2013 #109

I think that is backwards. renie408 Jul 2013 #111

Pardon my obtuseness, but is this in reference to something someone HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #116

yes Hekate Jul 2013 #121

This message was self-deleted by its author HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #122

I've got way too many irons in the fire today. Apparently, I commented in that thread and HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #123

Just look who's the Russian Allies Today compare to the US allies, it tells a lot. Nt Sand Wind Jul 2013 #119

The state of the art of totalitarianism mikeypooh Jul 2013 #120

Thanks so much for your input. Those votes won't suppress themselves, you know. Hekate Jul 2013 #195

We don't want to get there. That's the thing. Cleita Jul 2013 #127

I surely do want this country to improve, Cleita, but spreading misinformation will not do it Hekate Jul 2013 #180

kick grantcart Jul 2013 #129

And just exactly who said the US is worse than the USSR? burnodo Jul 2013 #132

I sure didn't, and I've been exceptionally critical of the intelligence and military complex NuclearDem Jul 2013 #147

Here's your answer Hekate Jul 2013 #164

I see burnodo Jul 2013 #176

Likewise a lot of posters in this thread display blithering ignorance of historical facts... Hekate Jul 2013 #179

If the President of the United States were white, would we even be having this conversation?? Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #142

Yes, because his race has absolutely nothing to do with it. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #149

Major fail. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #150

Oh? What is going on here at DU? NuclearDem Jul 2013 #152

Hooooooly shit. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #158

We certainly did when that president was Dubya. Pholus Jul 2013 #210

No, we did not. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #211

A "blue pill" for me versus "kool aid" for thee.... Pholus Jul 2013 #213

it's en vogue for some clowns to equate us to nazis and worse these days, don't fret about it. dionysus Jul 2013 #166

Pass me some of that vino, Dionysus Hekate Jul 2013 #172

Well, I wish they'd hurry up and make up their minds. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #191

Mahalo for your OP, Hekate.. Too bad for the Cha Jul 2013 #175

We are no where near the USSR, but certainly not the best. roamer65 Jul 2013 #193

Yes. Ridiculous and offensive. NaturalHigh Jul 2013 #194

The Unfavorable Comparisons to the Soviet Union are Really Something On the Road Jul 2013 #208

True. ermoore Jul 2013 #214