General Discussion

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)

165. Are patriotic slogans and cartoons all that's left of NSA-gate?

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:06 PM

Jul 2013

Or is that all there ever was? Snowden didn't expose any treason, that's clear. He exposed a perfectly legal warrant and a legally meaningless PowerPoint. If, however, he also shared classified US information with the Chinese, as both he and Chinese media have claimed, he certainly is a traitor. And he betrayed the US because he hates Obama and everything Obama stands for.

Not exactly hero material in my book but no accounting for tastes.

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Snowden Is No Traitor. What He EXPOSED Is What's TREASON. [View all] Octafish Jul 2013 OP

The Government Answers To The Oligarchs And Corporations - Not The People cantbeserious Jul 2013 #1

Pretty clear to me. nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #73

I'm so old I remember when one Party didn't. Octafish Jul 2013 #83

Peace and prosperity where? HumansAndResources Jul 2013 #180

JFK mentioned 'prosperity and peace' in his 1963 State of the Union address... Octafish Jul 2013 #205

He stole intel and ran to China and Russia. Bradley Manning didn't run NightWatcher Jul 2013 #2

Tell that to most of the world who are up in arms about it. It was new to them. Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #4

That's right, he "stole intel and ran." Never mind the wholesale domestic spying part. Right? PSPS Jul 2013 #7

it's a shame, dems backing extended surveillance on citizens. smh. all in the name of the party... allin99 Jul 2013 #203

Great To See The Blatant Acceptance Of Mass US Surveillance And The Desecration of The 4th Amendment cantbeserious Jul 2013 #13

I think you confuse an understanding of what the patriot act did Egnever Jul 2013 #91

We Will Have To Agree To Disagree - Thank You For Your Honesty cantbeserious Jul 2013 #116

This message was self-deleted by its author allin99 Jul 2013 #206

No, Manning got supermaxed. backscatter712 Jul 2013 #19

'Snowden is what the Government gets for failing to provide working whistleblowing pathways sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #45

Let's see, you got at least two of the talking points in your post.... Th1onein Jul 2013 #22

That's right. Tiny Bradley Manning, who knew full well what he would face DevonRex Jul 2013 #25

A gutless coward would have stayed on the job with Booz-Allen and kept snappyturtle Jul 2013 #30

A lying motherfucker went to work FOR BAH to commit espionage. Then DevonRex Jul 2013 #54

You must have been absent for the lesson on civil disccourse. nt snappyturtle Jul 2013 #70

Yeah, I said fuck that shit and said what I had to say the way I wanted to say it. DevonRex Jul 2013 #95

Like you, I was just stating my opinion. nt snappyturtle Jul 2013 #107

There's absolutely no evidence that he committed espionage. reusrename Jul 2013 #174

+1. Well said, snappyturtle. n/t Laelth Jul 2013 #57

Exactly......nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #76

Manning didn't have a chance to run. magellan Jul 2013 #46

Seems to be a lot of folks trusting the wrong people. Nt DevonRex Jul 2013 #56

Your opinion is noted. n/t magellan Jul 2013 #92

This message was self-deleted by its author magellan Jul 2013 #92

Like you, and the NSA. [n/t] Maedhros Jul 2013 #143

Explain your post. Now. nt DevonRex Jul 2013 #150

LOL, good luck with your orders there, tough guy. Marr Jul 2013 #182

LOL! I see you edited out "assholey top-spin." But it's all still there: DevonRex Jul 2013 #207

Yeah... I thought it was too rude, like the things you said up-thread to that other poster. Marr Jul 2013 #209

When i said explain your post now? or when i called snowden a lying motherfucker? DevonRex Jul 2013 #210

You trust the wrong people [n/a] Maedhros Jul 2013 #211

Ok. DevonRex Jul 2013 #216

I believe that any harm Snowden has caused Maedhros Jul 2013 #217

The documents DevonRex Jul 2013 #218

Our biggest problem in America is our citizens' collective disinterest Maedhros Jul 2013 #219

Manning is the reason for Snowden. Not a good idea to bring up Manning in this conversation. sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #48

Sabrina, Snowden will be lucky not to wind up in a gulag or worse in Russia. nt DevonRex Jul 2013 #58

Why on earth would Russia do that? reusrename Jul 2013 #175

if it's all known and no big deal backwoodsbob Jul 2013 #52

How many people do you know who before Snowden even heard of NSA? Octafish Jul 2013 #86

None of us knew that NSA was collecting data on EVERYONE. None of us, leveymg Jul 2013 #102

Yikes I didn't realize so many were living like babes in the woods NightWatcher Jul 2013 #111

See.below leveymg Jul 2013 #195

Or unless you watched the movie "Top Secret: National Security Agency" bhikkhu Jul 2013 #114

Sorry but no, you just didnt care when it was revealed Egnever Jul 2013 #147

yep. nebenaube Jul 2013 #184

Many.inferred,nobody.could.prove.it. leveymg Jul 2013 #193

Snowden did make YOU "aware of anything that we didnt know was already happening" because you have rhett o rick Jul 2013 #149

he revealed that your country spies on my country and treats us Swagman Jul 2013 #161

Snowden published the Verizon warrant. reusrename Jul 2013 #176

Manning "Got Caught" - He did not announce what he had done. HumansAndResources Jul 2013 #181

Snowden is anti-America, an Obama hater, a disgrace, and a CRIMINAL THIEF Tx4obama Jul 2013 #3

Oh, yes. By all means, let's "arrest Snowden" and that will make domestic spying OK! Yeah! PSPS Jul 2013 #5

There is evidence that Snowden committed crimes and he has publically admitted it. Tx4obama Jul 2013 #8

Oh God, I know! He's so bad! We all like beging spied on! Right? PSPS Jul 2013 #12

What is your solution for discovering and investigating terrorists in the US? Zorro Jul 2013 #31

which terrorists are you talking about? frylock Jul 2013 #53

The kind that fly airplanes into buildings Zorro Jul 2013 #63

that could've been prevented without all this invasive surveillance.. frylock Jul 2013 #69

Investigations after the fact Zorro Jul 2013 #71

Thomas Drake disagrees with you.. frylock Jul 2013 #78

I see no disagreement with Drake Zorro Jul 2013 #94

you claim the nsa needs to collect massive amounts of meta-data to prevent such events.. frylock Jul 2013 #135

Drake says no such thing Zorro Jul 2013 #156

It is not an opinion on the collection of data by the NSA, they obtained the warrants Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #36

You're right, we can't hang the NSA Jack Rabbit Jul 2013 #16

"under current law" marions ghost Jul 2013 #89

Plus "He didn't get his pony." n/t AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #9

Great To See THe Blatant Disregard Of US Malfeasance And The Desecration Of The Constitution cantbeserious Jul 2013 #14

Wow, Tx4obama! WOW. Th1onein Jul 2013 #23

The 50s are over friend. That shit only plays in retirement homes. Nt galileoreloaded Jul 2013 #40

lol! frylock Jul 2013 #55

He did not bring harm to our country. Our country benefits from knowing the information totodeinhere Jul 2013 #49

I agree...+1. What some don't understand is that in the U.S. our allegiance is to snappyturtle Jul 2013 #90

Why does a Carlyle Group company have access to my communications? Octafish Jul 2013 #139

Who says they do? randome Jul 2013 #144

That's the point, isn't it? Octafish Jul 2013 #153

K&R MotherPetrie Jul 2013 #6

Branded. Octafish Jul 2013 #115

Huge K&R. Thank you. This is self-evident, woo me with science Jul 2013 #10

They pass a bunch of unconstitutional laws and then claim LuvNewcastle Jul 2013 #17

The actions of Snowden is unconscionable. When you spy and lie and this seems to fit his Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #42

It IS tyranny. Octafish Jul 2013 #160

It seems most Americans have lost sight of the context of democracy. Gregorian Jul 2013 #11

Wish I could K&R your reply....so, +1. nt snappyturtle Jul 2013 #35

Fools, indeed! n/t Laelth Jul 2013 #61

This is how it happened before. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #81

excellent post! Thank you. wildbilln864 Jul 2013 #134

Your name Samuel Adams? Octafish Jul 2013 #199

How dare you! You must be a racist/commie/hack! PSPS Jul 2013 #15

Thank you for reposting this. It is superb. woo me with science Jul 2013 #18

You forgot No. 15 - hueymahl Jul 2013 #32

And 16 hootinholler Jul 2013 #106

+1 leftstreet Jul 2013 #98

That IS a handy list. Here's what The Worshippers miss... Octafish Jul 2013 #201

Anyone notice how "rightie" isn't talking about this? 4dsc Jul 2013 #20

It is not just you...I noticed it too. zeemike Jul 2013 #38

Secret Government is an issue that cuts across ideological, party and class lines like nothing else. Octafish Jul 2013 #204

I can't take you serious anymore. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #21

I know! Who could ever object to being spied on by their own government! Right? PSPS Jul 2013 #24

That's ok, we haven't taken you seriously in a while. You or Dick Cheney. JoeyT Jul 2013 #39

Good one. n/t totodeinhere Jul 2013 #51

Just a bookend in Clapper's Library hootinholler Jul 2013 #26

You are most welcome, hootinholler! Octafish Jul 2013 #213

Thanks for that link! hootinholler Jul 2013 #214

Snowden is scum, Progressive dog Jul 2013 #27

Given how primed the tea party is for Snowden's actions, there is nothing I admire about him. SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2013 #50

THIS is the point. Thank you, Octafish. Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #28

+++++ marions ghost Jul 2013 #103

He going to be convicted as a traitor to his country MjolnirTime Jul 2013 #29

If that should happen, and I hope it doesn't because I regard Edward Snowden snappyturtle Jul 2013 #41

Well this will bring out the pro spying, US gov can do no wrong, attack the messeger, it's the law L0oniX Jul 2013 #33

That makes no sense. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #34

Nope he's a traitor.......eom 4bucksagallon Jul 2013 #37

A traitor to whom? The government? The U.S. Constitution? ??? nt snappyturtle Jul 2013 #60

here's a shocker; snowden comitted treason AND the NSA program is also treason pasto76 Jul 2013 #43

knr forestpath Jul 2013 #44

He's just a useful dupe for BushInc, Octafish. Sorry, but the 'coincidences' on the blm Jul 2013 #47

My Friend, where did I say Obama was no different than Bush? On this or any other thread? Octafish Jul 2013 #62

You're missing the boat on that one. DevonRex Jul 2013 #66

He didn't just expose US internal surveillance. He crossed the line into espionage pnwmom Jul 2013 #68

I didn't say you did. Others are. Lots of them. Many here at DU. blm Jul 2013 #82

BFEE Takes Charge: The Uses of 'Counter-Terrorism' Octafish Jul 2013 #123

We already KNEW about it years ago, Oct. Snowden isn't pointing one finger at BFEE - he's walking blm Jul 2013 #131

Absolute Pawns. Octafish Jul 2013 #197

Actually, Oct, Obama DID propose a budget requiring wealthy to pay more, requiring blm Jul 2013 #198

We* hear ya: ''ECHELON Today: The Evolution of an NSA Black Program'' Octafish Jul 2013 #212

You would have to completely ignore every step of the way he took. blm Jul 2013 #215

I've troubled that the roll-out of this story was really slick emulatorloo Jul 2013 #158

Still amazed that so many here can't see the level of slickness to the 'rollout' of blm Jul 2013 #188

Ironic that the ones who are pro-Snowden are being used by Bush Inc., the very DevonRex Jul 2013 #65

Honest question. Laelth Jul 2013 #67

No way. There's never been an outcome where Dems gained from being viewed as no different blm Jul 2013 #85

If Bush Inc. has little or no loyalty to the Republican Party ... Laelth Jul 2013 #88

They don't. They use the GOP as a vehicle. The Bushes are fascists - pure and simple. blm Jul 2013 #96

So Bush is behind the exposure of NSA secrets? felix_numinous Jul 2013 #208

Edward Snowden is an American hero, yes he is. another_liberal Jul 2013 #59

Disclosing classified national security information to foreign powers is treason. shawn703 Jul 2013 #64

No evidence of that propaganda talking point. It is all distraction from woo me with science Jul 2013 #72

Of course there is shawn703 Jul 2013 #118

What a slimy, disingenuous post. woo me with science Jul 2013 #127

From the articles shawn703 Jul 2013 #132

Disclosing criminal activity by governments woo me with science Jul 2013 #138

So you do support releasing NSI information to foreign governments? shawn703 Jul 2013 #140

No, that is absolutely false, woo me with science Jul 2013 #142

Read post #132 very carefully shawn703 Jul 2013 #145

I've noticed a tactic in the propaganda, woo me with science Jul 2013 #148

Again shawn703 Jul 2013 #152

Authoritarian governments always use laws about secrecy to defend abuses of power. woo me with science Jul 2013 #162

Interesting how you never address my point shawn703 Jul 2013 #164

No, I have explained why your "point" is invalid. nt woo me with science Jul 2013 #166

Just because you say so? shawn703 Jul 2013 #167

As usual, the vacant argument devolves into the laughing smilie. woo me with science Jul 2013 #168

There you go again shawn703 Jul 2013 #170

Totalitarian governments always use treason as an excuse to silence their critics. n/t totodeinhere Jul 2013 #79

Sometimes treason is just treason. n/t shawn703 Jul 2013 #120

Governments abusing secrecy laws to conceal crime and repression from the people is treason. n/t backscatter712 Jul 2013 #84

Revealing NSI information to foreign governments is treason. n/t shawn703 Jul 2013 #119

Kicked and Recommended! nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #74

K&R ReRe Jul 2013 #75

America's forefathers were most likely called traitors by the British AZ Progressive Jul 2013 #77

The Revolutionary Army were also called "cowards" and "Traitors"... bvar22 Jul 2013 #105

Great analogy. The statists/authoritarians are absolutely the new Royalists. hueymahl Jul 2013 #133

Purely projection in it's purest form, it's Ibsens ' An Enemy of the people ' orpupilofnature57 Jul 2013 #80

No. It's not a picture of a pipe. It's treason. Octafish Jul 2013 #87

It was treason in 2001-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-etc.... what NEW did Snowden reveal? blm Jul 2013 #97

Those things all sound scary :( NuclearDem Jul 2013 #100

Snowden's not scary - he's just been a useful tool for those who manipulated this outcome. blm Jul 2013 #101

Booz ALLEN & BUSH staybehinds!1111 bobduca Jul 2013 #104

Nope - I think it's Jeb2016 benefitting from the Obama is no different than Bush scenario. blm Jul 2013 #117

If you really want to know what he revealed and what is "new" bobduca Jul 2013 #122

Sorry, but, where have you been? blm Jul 2013 #136

If it's old news and it's still happening, what good did leaking it do the first time around? NuclearDem Jul 2013 #137

I'm not panicked about Snowden - he's just a dupe. Nothing unusual to me. blm Jul 2013 #141

I've reached the conclusion that ucrdem Jul 2013 #163

Ah yes, reason #1 bobduca Jul 2013 #146

I'm gonna have to update the Snowden Bashing Bingo cards! n/t backscatter712 Jul 2013 #172

Not bashing Snowden - he was just a useful dupe. blm Jul 2013 #187

Sorry to disappoint you but MANY of us here at DU knew this was going on and that blm Jul 2013 #186

But why didnt you all hold senate hearings on this issue? or write OpEds in major newspapers? bobduca Jul 2013 #192

That's the point I've been making. It was institutionalized by Congress in 2006 and blm Jul 2013 #202

Confirmation enough to draw out Clapper's Library hootinholler Jul 2013 #110

Nah - dissembling is nothing new here. blm Jul 2013 #113

This message was self-deleted by its author orpupilofnature57 Jul 2013 #99

I agree without those two there is no freedom, so I thank.... orpupilofnature57 Jul 2013 #109

Ed Snowden is Dick Cheney. baldguy Jul 2013 #108

Dick Cheney is Dick Cheney. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #121

Who's been threatening to release the identities of active intel agents? baldguy Jul 2013 #128

Ahahahahahahaha and the Manning leaks were going to get AMERICANS KILLED!!11 NuclearDem Jul 2013 #129

So, you're OK with Valerie Plame being outed by Dick Cheney? baldguy Jul 2013 #154

Dick Cheney outed Valerie Plame to punish her husband for his criticisms. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #155

Same thing. Snowden is Cheney. baldguy Jul 2013 #157

No it's not, and I just explained why it isn't. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #159

Running to foreign countries ant telling them details makes him a traitor liberal N proud Jul 2013 #112

Yeah. And Occupy is like a metastisizing mushroom that any day now will infect the world. randome Jul 2013 #124

Surreal Leolo Jul 2013 #125

Welcome to DU! NuclearDem Jul 2013 #126

what blatant criminality? Egnever Jul 2013 #151

Welcome to DU! Hydra Jul 2013 #171

k/r marmar Jul 2013 #130

Are patriotic slogans and cartoons all that's left of NSA-gate? ucrdem Jul 2013 #165

Taste has nothing to do with it. Octafish Jul 2013 #185

It's either taste or political preference and I hope it's not the latter. ucrdem Jul 2013 #191

Looks like the paranoid Right Wing nut jobs were right. RegexReader Jul 2013 #169

Welcome to DU! Hydra Jul 2013 #173

We've always been at war with Eastasia. Octafish Jul 2013 #178

Ya, we're so far down the rabbit hole it's not funny Hydra Jul 2013 #179

K & R AzDar Jul 2013 #177

yeah what gives. K&R nt limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #183

HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #189

I agree Autumn Jul 2013 #190

agreed! nt G_j Jul 2013 #194

knr Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #196

K&R felix_numinous Jul 2013 #200

K & R Quantess Jul 2013 #220