General Discussion

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)

82. Creating the confrontation and self-defense has nothing to do with SYG

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:27 PM

Jul 2013

Being the aggressor and later being able to claim self-defense- that's nothing to do with SYG.

The classic example of this is two guys in a bar..

One taps the other on the shoulder and says, "My pecker's bigger'n yours, wanna fight about it?" They stumble outside to engage in 'fisticuffs' and the first guy starts to get his ass kicked. He throws his hands up and says, "Fine, yours is bigger'n mine! I give up!"

The second guy continues to pound on the purported-pecker-fight-picker, making him (or a reasonable person in that situation) think that he's going to be killed or grievously wounded. After having tried to get away and being unable to do so, or having clearly communicated his intent to disengage, he would be justified in using deadly force in response.

That relies on a law from 1974- http://law.onecle.com/florida/crimes/776.041.html

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I'm stunned. I'm speechless. My last shred of respect for the law is all-but-gone. [View all] Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 OP

Yes Dwayne Hicks Jul 2013 #1

yep rurallib Jul 2013 #2

Heck, I'm making a list as we speak! WinkyDink Jul 2013 #3

Agent Bob? OMG-- Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #51

Hee---I knew I goofed! WinkyDink Jul 2013 #74

No, we now rate two agents tavalon Jul 2013 #78

Someone stood their ground awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #135

In Florida Just Saying Jul 2013 #4

Only if you are white and they are not. roody Jul 2013 #5

Is Zimmerman white? I don't think so. xtraxritical Jul 2013 #84

Zimmy ain't black, either. meanit Jul 2013 #85

white heaven05 Jul 2013 #88

Zim appears caucasian. roody Jul 2013 #101

Yep. He may be technically part Hispanic hifiguy Jul 2013 #102

That's the problem: the law didn't ensure justice in this case. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #6

That is the only logical answer I can come up with. nIt seems like that law on self-defense is avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #86

Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. NOLALady Jul 2013 #7

Katie, bar the door. Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #8

You can kill them at night in Texas if you say they're stealing something from you. nt valerief Jul 2013 #9

Jurors acted 100% in line with the law. That is the problem. The law is a bad law. BlueStreak Jul 2013 #10

This is straight self-defense law. X_Digger Jul 2013 #16

I don't believe that is correct. BlueStreak Jul 2013 #24

The circumstances leading to the confrontation ARE irrelevant galileoreloaded Jul 2013 #61

In states without the SYG law, you cannot CREATE the confrontation and then BlueStreak Jul 2013 #62

Err, that's like blaming a rape victim for getting drunk or wearing revealing clothes galileoreloaded Jul 2013 #68

Don't blame me. Blame ALEC. BlueStreak Jul 2013 #76

Creating the confrontation and self-defense has nothing to do with SYG X_Digger Jul 2013 #82

The laws the defense used, and the jury instructions.. X_Digger Jul 2013 #69

Perhaps, but the result is the same either way BlueStreak Jul 2013 #73

No, the prosecution was free to make that claim. X_Digger Jul 2013 #80

Being from Houston, Texas, you sure act like you have a lot invested in this case. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #58

Not Houston, DFW (Austin til 2002) X_Digger Jul 2013 #64

Is it "self defense" when you pick a fight, and when the other guy hits back, you shoot him? George II Jul 2013 #97

It is in Florida and a bunch of other states BlueStreak Jul 2013 #117

ALEC and the Republican Party MNBrewer Jul 2013 #115

It's disgusting RainDog Jul 2013 #11

Agreed! nt avebury Jul 2013 #12

I agree I never had any respect for the law gopiscrap Jul 2013 #13

That is silly talk. BlueStreak Jul 2013 #26

ALEC maybe the problem gopiscrap Jul 2013 #29

They don't care about Martin one way or another. They do care about fomenting conflicts among BlueStreak Jul 2013 #34

The 1% is more than happy to see the herd hifiguy Jul 2013 #104

You think they did this to kill Dem voters one at a time? BlueStreak Jul 2013 #113

And who do you think funds ALEC?... socialist_n_TN Jul 2013 #126

They don't do this to kill one potential Dem voter at a time BlueStreak Jul 2013 #127

Sets a pretty good precedent though for mass action.... socialist_n_TN Jul 2013 #134

I'm really sad about this steve2470 Jul 2013 #14

It's not perfect and this is Florida treestar Jul 2013 #15

Fucking vigilante cop wannabe. Manifestor_of_Light Jul 2013 #17

Only in certain States krawhitham Jul 2013 #18

That is exactly what it means - in FL at least. kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #19

Welcome to justice in America, white guy gets away with it quinnox Jul 2013 #20

white guy gets away with it AlbertCat Jul 2013 #81

He was, however, wealthy and famous and thus powerful. hifiguy Jul 2013 #105

My sister is an evidence tech, she has always maintained that there would have been a bloody TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #128

No, but he had millions Chakab Jul 2013 #106

No, but he had millions AlbertCat Jul 2013 #136

and then there's this... allin99 Jul 2013 #98

It's surprising, but it means they found that GZ was in fear of bodily harm. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #21

It is time for those who are heavily invested emotionally to give it a rest BlueStreak Jul 2013 #38

Yeah. I thought manslaughter. Igel Jul 2013 #40

Sorry, I looked at the evidence objectively. nebenaube Jul 2013 #96

Reasonable people can disagree. I believe the jurors seriously considered manslaughter, but Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #121

No it is not reasonable... nebenaube Jul 2013 #125

Yes, thats exactly what it means and the gun loving f'kers cheer. DCBob Jul 2013 #22

an example of "gun loving f'kers cheering:" bobduca Jul 2013 #66

get your riot on... ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #23

I will not blame ANYONE for protesting this verdict. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #28

ah, your fucking stupid laughter again... ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #31

Nope, I'm in a large majority tonight, stunned and disgusted by the verdict... Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #32

ah yes... the majority is always right... ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #35

Wow... Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #39

nah... you're too much fun in your misery ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #43

. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #45

hahahaha.... ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #47

You're clearly an idiot. NealK Jul 2013 #63

"Majority is right" is another way of saying "mob rule" BlueStreak Jul 2013 #41

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #44

. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #48

you... ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #49

What we should be protesting is these ALEC laws that promote gun violence BlueStreak Jul 2013 #53

oh, and I am not attacking you ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #46

You may want to take a break Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #57

people like you are the reason the ignore button was invented. liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #92

Only in Florida, and only if it's a black kid Kennah Jul 2013 #25

There is no justice system any longer dickthegrouch Jul 2013 #27

Is this lady tom_kelly Jul 2013 #30

Trial By Affirmation Media... KharmaTrain Jul 2013 #33

The criminal/civil trial aspect reminds me of... Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #37

A Different Standard... KharmaTrain Jul 2013 #42

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #72

He will not live a happy life. tblue Jul 2013 #107

This happens when RWers, conservatives, Teabaggers, libertarians & religious extremists are in power baldguy Jul 2013 #36

No, it doesn't mean that at all Bake Jul 2013 #50

Really I can't believe it. zeemike Jul 2013 #52

Zimmerman will never be a free man. Conium Jul 2013 #54

Welcome to DU Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #60

think I lost it on OJ PatrynXX Jul 2013 #55

It's been open season on Blacks in this country for over 200 years. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #56

Agreed. NealK Jul 2013 #65

True enough treestar Jul 2013 #77

At least in Florida. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #59

The American justice system is heavily stacked against African-Americans. Apophis Jul 2013 #67

I was preparing myself for this from the beginning. It hurts but not as much as it could've. To me craigmatic Jul 2013 #70

Law is simply a rhetorical construct. ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #71

Probably comes from the unnatural saturation Rex Jul 2013 #79

Murder is now legal in Florida Bettie Jul 2013 #75

No what this means is mstinamotorcity2 Jul 2013 #83

I'm heaven05 Jul 2013 #87

That is so how I feel. Drained. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #89

"Stand Your Ground." blkmusclmachine Jul 2013 #90

Only if you are white and the victim is black SHRED Jul 2013 #91

Only if you're white and they're black. This is America, home of racist Jesus-loving women haters. valerief Jul 2013 #93

"Load 'em up boys, and pack extra bullets--We're goin' black-boy huntin'!" lastlib Jul 2013 #94

Time for a boycott BlueinOhio Jul 2013 #95

Go ahead try it then get back to us if you can. Leontius Jul 2013 #99

Your post is nonsensical. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #100

That's not lost on gun owners. tblue Jul 2013 #103

But of course you have to do it in one of the states that has his kind of laws. My state does not. jwirr Jul 2013 #108

Yep. You're right on the money. classof56 Jul 2013 #109

The procecution did its job LiberalLovinLug Jul 2013 #110

As long as your in the Sunshine State... go for it. Agschmid Jul 2013 #111

only if they are Black, and even better if you are white JI7 Jul 2013 #112

I am, alas, neither stunned or shocked by this verdict. cali Jul 2013 #114

It's been a very long time since I've had any respect for the law. DLevine Jul 2013 #116

It's sick and disturbing. myrna minx Jul 2013 #118

Florida Jawja Jul 2013 #119

:( Whisp Jul 2013 #120

I've refrained from commenting until now. roamer65 Jul 2013 #122

When was dueling outlawed in the US? marshall Jul 2013 #123

My respect for the law vanished in Chicago in 1968. hobbit709 Jul 2013 #124

I had exhausted my Enthusiast Jul 2013 #129

Everytime justice isn't served, justice is crushed. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #130

There seems to have been a justice reset after Nixon. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #132

+1 Blue_Tires Jul 2013 #131

Just do not smoke a joint. Gregorian Jul 2013 #133

Not entirely. Only if you're white liberalhistorian Jul 2013 #137