General Discussion

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)

37. OK, I'm going to say that I think your tactics are a bit underhanded (without

Mon Jul 15, 2013, 11:34 AM

Jul 2013

indicting you personally for them).

Specifically, on one hand, you seek to discredit Snowden by saying he has shown no 'evidence' for his claims. But, on the other hand, you seek to indict Snowden by claiming he has sent damaging information to Der Spiegel (and, presumably, others).

This smacks a bit of wanting to have your cake (no evidence) but eat it too (intel provided to Der Spiegel). It makes your claims a trifle difficult to respond to, as they seem to shimmer and move as effortlessly as a desert mirage or a kaleidoscope.

But perhaps I should back up a step. You previously claimed that the interests of the global working class are not 'uniform.' So I must ask you, by way of establishing initial premises, do you agree that there is such an entity as a 'global working class'? Perhaps you do not. That's fine but, if so, it seems we are like two ships passing one another in the night. My ship, the good ship "Internationale" crosses paths with your ship, "The U.S.S. Exceptional". We flash Morse code at one another but our signals are so much gibberish, each of us speaking a different language.

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Highlight:

Snowden Stuck It to the Overclass - For All of Us [View all] warrprayer Jul 2013 OP

du rec. xchrom Jul 2013 #1

No one needs to read any opinion about Snowden. randome Jul 2013 #2

take the time warrprayer Jul 2013 #3

Okay atreides1 Jul 2013 #9

I am grateful warrprayer Jul 2013 #16

Snowden worked for a living. In my universe, that makes him a member HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #11

So anyone in management is automatically our enemy? randome Jul 2013 #18

Do you disagree that Snowden worked for his living (as opposed to living HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #20

Yeah, about that title. Snowden didn't do shit for anyone but himself. randome Jul 2013 #22

Yes or No: Is Snowden a worker? HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #24

He was a worker. Now he's a runner. randome Jul 2013 #25

OK, now we've established Snowden's relationship to HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #26

The interests of the global working class are not uniform. randome Jul 2013 #28

I am an 'internationalist'. We internationalists look askance at skeezy HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #32

Neither. He has no evidence. randome Jul 2013 #34

OK, I'm going to say that I think your tactics are a bit underhanded (without HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #37

I think you should "ignore" Randome. xtraxritical Jul 2013 #39

I'm only going by what Der Speigel says. However, you can't believe everything you read. randome Jul 2013 #43

Then the search for facts should take place sulphurdunn Jul 2013 #65

He certainly has national security secrets. randome Jul 2013 #72

He has denied revealing any state secrets sulphurdunn Jul 2013 #83

Nearly every criminal pleads 'Innocent'. He stole documents and he is wanted by the authorities. randome Jul 2013 #85

Several whistleblowers have testified that they could pull information on anyone's phone numbers. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #81

I can't give too much credence to Tice. randome Jul 2013 #84

That they collect the metadata is enough to permit them to tag anyone who dissens in any way. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #94

It's not likely that anyone at the installation in Hawaii could access the domestic metadata. bornskeptic Jul 2013 #121

The metadata collection has been ruled legal for decades. randome Jul 2013 #87

The courts have never considered this kind of mass collection of metadata including metadata JDPriestly Jul 2013 #93

he was not wrong about direct access questionseverything Jul 2013 #96

This message was self-deleted by its author bvar22 Jul 2013 #35

Ah the new packaging... Half-Century Man Jul 2013 #50

FYI: It's 'rentier' (not 'renter'), a term borrowed from the classical economics of HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #59

No. I think we have a misunderstanding. Half-Century Man Jul 2013 #119

And now it is I who owe you an apology for imputing red-baiting HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #123

Great movie bro! warrprayer Jul 2013 #103

+1000 liberal N proud Jul 2013 #29

Thanks! randome Jul 2013 #58

There should be no camps. sulphurdunn Jul 2013 #73

Who is hunting him? His passport was revoked. Harsh, right? randome Jul 2013 #75

The US had the plane sulphurdunn Jul 2013 #89

The Bolvian plane incident will never be clear enough to satisfy anyone. randome Jul 2013 #91

And if his a criminal and gave away secret information? liberal N proud Jul 2013 #118

Again, what specific evidence do you need to be persuaded, and which claims does he not JDPriestly Jul 2013 #78

Posts #34 & 64. randome Jul 2013 #80

See my Post #81 for an explanation. The evidence he has given us is enough if you have the JDPriestly Jul 2013 #82

He isn't comparing labor to management. sulphurdunn Jul 2013 #63

The NSA was Snowden's employer. randome Jul 2013 #66

Yours is a common conception. sulphurdunn Jul 2013 #69

Governed by a collective of individuals. randome Jul 2013 #74

I hope so too, but doubt it. sulphurdunn Jul 2013 #86

I don't know how to fix that, though. randome Jul 2013 #88

While I agree with you sulphurdunn Jul 2013 #62

While I'd like to fashion myself a member of the 'intelligentsia,' I too HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #90

I've been having other discussions sulphurdunn Jul 2013 #97

'And he still has no evidence of his claims. ' markiv Jul 2013 #44

Waiting for the evidence. randome Jul 2013 #46

that's better nt markiv Jul 2013 #48

What constitutes evidence of his claims? sulphurdunn Jul 2013 #61

He claimed he could spy on anyone if he only had an email address. randome Jul 2013 #64

Then the truth should come out sulphurdunn Jul 2013 #67

His motive is to be a hero. I think it's obvious. randome Jul 2013 #79

That may be so, but sulphurdunn Jul 2013 #92

Not really. I need to get other stuff done. randome Jul 2013 #95

OK, thanks sulphurdunn Jul 2013 #98

What evidence do you need? Specifically, what evidence would you need to believe his claims? JDPriestly Jul 2013 #68

Post #64. randome Jul 2013 #77

the legend of snowden is in his own mind and those who kneel at the Cha Jul 2013 #100

Could I have a link on the death of Steve Kangas along with any evidence that Scaife had him rubbed el_bryanto Jul 2013 #4

purely speculation warrprayer Jul 2013 #5

If it is speculation, boy is it hilarious that in the same sentence that you make your unfounded el_bryanto Jul 2013 #7

A closed mind is certain. bahrbearian Jul 2013 #10

I open my mind to evidence; if you have any, I'll happily read it. If you don't have any, el_bryanto Jul 2013 #12

it's my OPINION warrprayer Jul 2013 #14

I'm not defending Scaife, and it's low that you would suggest that el_bryanto Jul 2013 #19

So , do you beleive in "Magic Bullets" , that will shut down CT's right? bahrbearian Jul 2013 #21

I don't understand what you are referring to here el_bryanto Jul 2013 #23

"A closed mind is certain" siligut Jul 2013 #36

Good Read bahrbearian Jul 2013 #6

Waaay ahead of it's time warrprayer Jul 2013 #8

More to thank Scaife for!!! warrprayer Jul 2013 #13

CIA forerunner agency was OSS -- Oh So Social! Octafish Jul 2013 #15

gotta run - I will be back later warrprayer Jul 2013 #17

Great post, octafish. Thanks. n/t Laelth Jul 2013 #53

K&R Americans have preferred fantasy to reality for a long time. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #27

I suppose if the US materialized from nowhere in the 1970"s Progressive dog Jul 2013 #30

And let us not forget the Powell Memorandum that kicked the whole thing off. GliderGuider Jul 2013 #31

Snowden seems to have defenders of the upper class JEB Jul 2013 #33

LOL warrprayer Jul 2013 #104

The most important statement in the OP watoos Jul 2013 #38

Maybe it won't stop them. wtmusic Jul 2013 #49

agree 100% warrprayer Jul 2013 #114

Thank You For Sharing This Information cantbeserious Jul 2013 #40

That was well worth the time to read. CrispyQ Jul 2013 #41

Yup, that jumped at me too nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #117

Snowden should explain all that at his trial. nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #42

like Chimpy, Cheney and Rove did at theirs? warrprayer Jul 2013 #101

. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #45

He did, and I am glad he did it. History will show that he is a hero. Safetykitten Jul 2013 #47

k&r for right action. n/t Laelth Jul 2013 #51

Please he isn't even in an avenger class. Historic NY Jul 2013 #52

Looks like Mr Hero, who said he would 'die for America' railsback Jul 2013 #54

Kangas' "Origins of the Overclass" looks like a rambling rant struggle4progress Jul 2013 #55

What, too many words? n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #56

"whoa dude we need a revolution against the machine but right now i got a badass case of munchies" struggle4progress Jul 2013 #60

Steve Kangas warrprayer Jul 2013 #106

very probably not. kangas died in 1999. much of the stuff he mentions in his struggle4progress Jul 2013 #120

if memory serves warrprayer Jul 2013 #126

I lived in Pennsylvania for much of the 80s and in my circles everybody knew Scaife was a dirtbag struggle4progress Jul 2013 #129

I lived in Pgh the first 29 years warrprayer Jul 2013 #130

your posts are more babble than that HiPointDem Jul 2013 #71

the ignore feature is easy to use if you need it: struggle4progress Jul 2013 #76

Thanks warrprayer and one name that has reared it's ugly head over and over again Cleita Jul 2013 #57

this is the guy Scaife hired warrprayer Jul 2013 #105

krecc'd Puzzledtraveller Jul 2013 #70

And if he starts World War III with his irresponsible behavior? moondust Jul 2013 #99

Now this is a nice exaggeration nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #102

Hi Nadin! warrprayer Jul 2013 #107

I know...it is no longer surprising nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #109

Most D.U.ers warrprayer Jul 2013 #110

Exactly nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #115

this is for you warrprayer Jul 2013 #131

Thanks nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #132

what if our fear warrprayer Jul 2013 #108

Right. moondust Jul 2013 #111

... warrprayer Jul 2013 #112

as I said in the op warrprayer Jul 2013 #113

After george bush engaged the country in aggressive war nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #116

We have already started WWIII. It was Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia. truedelphi Jul 2013 #122

All of the points in Kangas' piece are well documented. Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #124

if memory serves warrprayer Jul 2013 #125

Yes, I agree. Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #127

Oh I understand warrprayer Jul 2013 #128