General Discussion

LuckyTheDog

(6,837 posts)

21. You are just wrong

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 07:16 PM

Jul 2013

SYG re-defined the entire idea of self defense in Florida.

The ACTUAL danger no longer matters. Opportunity to escape without using lethal force no longer matters.

All that matters is whether or not a person has a "reasonable belief" that his/her life is in danger. And at that point, a person has no duty to retreat and is cleared to use lethal force. That is true even if the killer provoked the altercation (which Zimmerman clearly did).

That is why the SYG law language was used in the jury instructions. That is why the jury had to consider SYG principles.

I think people are really splitting hairs and parsing to the nth degree when they say "this was not a SYG case." That might be true om a very narrow sense. But with SYG on the books, it affects all cases like this, even if the lawyers want to pretend it doesn't.

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Don't buy the spin. SYG had everything to do with Zimmerman's acquittal [View all] LuckyTheDog Jul 2013 OP

Well a juror said it did make a difference! It's the same propaganda controlling the Snowdon story SugarShack Jul 2013 #1

That was the entire point of my thread. SYG instructions OBLITERATE manslaughter laws. blm Jul 2013 #2

Yep. You got it. (nt) LuckyTheDog Jul 2013 #3

Comparision LuckyTheDog Jul 2013 #4

What about the victim? Historic NY Jul 2013 #6

Not in Florida (nt) LuckyTheDog Jul 2013 #8

As we have seen the law gives rise to vigilante style Historic NY Jul 2013 #9

Yes...But not according to the jury Tippy Jul 2013 #12

Your point? Igel Jul 2013 #15

MY point is from a LE prospective ... Historic NY Jul 2013 #49

Absolutely true if Zimmerman initiated the physical violence... Pelican Jul 2013 #53

The jury was wrong! hrmjustin Jul 2013 #55

I'm surprised to learn that Florida has 6 person juries for felony cases. tanyev Jul 2013 #5

A NY felony trial jury 12 members and up to 6 alternates... Historic NY Jul 2013 #7

Connecticut I think does it too....along with sometimes Texas davidn3600 Jul 2013 #34

I've never heard of it in Texas. tanyev Jul 2013 #52

It's not spin. You're not understanding the law. DirkGently Jul 2013 #10

Except the jury hung their hats on the SYG instructions. Instructions that TRUMP the blm Jul 2013 #13

Please explain what you mean by that. DirkGently Jul 2013 #14

The jurors were given instructions on Stand your ground blm Jul 2013 #47

The defense didn't have to invoke SYG. It still applied. LuckyTheDog Jul 2013 #17

You still have to argue it. Explain how / when that happened. DirkGently Jul 2013 #18

You are just wrong LuckyTheDog Jul 2013 #21

No, dude, YOU are just wrong. Explain how SYG applied. DirkGently Jul 2013 #24

There was no SYG hearing LuckyTheDog Jul 2013 #27

Your OP is that SYG had "everything to do with the acquittal." FALSE. DirkGently Jul 2013 #30

If not for the re-definition of self defense thanks to SYG, Zimmerman probably would be in prison LuckyTheDog Jul 2013 #33

No. Any evidence countering Martin pinning Zimm would be huge. DirkGently Jul 2013 #46

Query re actual versus perceived danger. Jim Lane Jul 2013 #50

Actually, yes. There's a special hearing to determine if the defendant's actions are covered by SYG. X_Digger Jul 2013 #36

You are saying that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman? cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #11

Not saying that at all LuckyTheDog Jul 2013 #16

I read the law before it was fashionable. I am a law-reader by nature. cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #19

Sigh. Read the jury instructions. LuckyTheDog Jul 2013 #22

The Zimmerman apologists will not back down on this MattBaggins Jul 2013 #54

Maybe you should cite the language you're talking about. DirkGently Jul 2013 #20

You're not going to make any headway, I fear. COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #23

Jesus Christ, I swore I was done with this topic, but the ignorance burns. DirkGently Jul 2013 #25

I hear you loud and clear. COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #26

So, the instructions from the judge... LuckyTheDog Jul 2013 #28

Regarding "duty to flee?" No. How do you think otherwise? DirkGently Jul 2013 #40

Maybe this will help clear up confusion ctaylors6 Jul 2013 #29

So, basically... LuckyTheDog Jul 2013 #31

I think you've got it ctaylors6 Jul 2013 #39

No, it did not redefine anything. X_Digger Jul 2013 #42

I doubt Martin was on top of him the entire time, if ever LuckyTheDog Jul 2013 #51

Without SYG, it would have been the exact same case. X_Digger Jul 2013 #56

Nicely put. But SYG deals only with the duty to flee, which did not arise. DirkGently Jul 2013 #32

It changed the case LuckyTheDog Jul 2013 #35

Arguments like what? DirkGently Jul 2013 #43

It seems to me that you're essentially arguing anomiep Jul 2013 #44

Elaborate Lurks Often Jul 2013 #45

I am totally confused about this SYG issue LittleBlue Jul 2013 #37

Not many folks around DU understand SYG. I'd suggest statute research, Decoy of Fenris Jul 2013 #38

There is an immunity element of SYG for both civil and criminal DirkGently Jul 2013 #41

For all Zimmy knew, those skittles were packed with explosives. BootinUp Jul 2013 #48