General Discussion

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)

180. First, you keep saying 'American citizen' as if this means that Americans are entitled to rights

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:37 PM

Jul 2013

that non-citizens are not. Persons who are enemy combatants have the same rights, whether or not they are citizens. This is not Imperial Rome, where only 'citizens' have the benefit of the laws. So what if they are citizens. Are the lives of non-citizens not as valuable?

Second, once war is declared, an enemy combatant (citizen or not) may be killed wherever they are engaged in conflict. Anywhere, if they are not custodial. Hamdi and its progeny have repeatedly confirmed the right of the President to act under the AUMF of 9/18/2001, using his discretion.

Third, citizen or not, you can be named an enemy combatant. Awlaki was. So was Bin Laden. Because neither submitted to custody, they both could be killed under the same AUMF.

Fourth, read the AUMF---if the President decides that a drone strike, or a raid in Pakistan is how you deal with persons under the AUMF, he's got the power to do so.

If Congress didn't want this...they can always seek to revoke the AUMF.

Awlaki, as a non-custodial combatant, had no right to trial. It does not matter if he was a citizen. He got the drone strike he deserved.

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Highlight:

David Sirota: Obama is George Zimmerman. Trayvon Martin is Al-Awlaki. [View all] AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 OP

Some crazy firebagger shit...what the hell is David Sirota on? nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #1

They're either unhinged or they try to outdo each other's cretinous behavior. nt AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #4

It takes werk to outcrazy Greenwald.....nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #7

Recently Fired Radio Talk Show Host otohara Jul 2013 #109

ah ha! that explains it then. Why I had the comments I did Whisp Jul 2013 #130

Racial dirty tricks in the Philly mayoral--another firing of Sirota. We here in Philly remember msanthrope Jul 2013 #144

thanks for the link, yes, Sirota appears to be very Greenwald like. Whisp Jul 2013 #148

He's An Angry Guy otohara Jul 2013 #153

Here in Philly, we remember when he was fired for racial dirty tricks during the mayoral race. msanthrope Jul 2013 #141

Sirota is on pretzels laced with megahater steroids. You know the usual. Cha Jul 2013 #159

Sounds like Sirota has jumped the Sharknado. JoePhilly Jul 2013 #2

Do you want to discuss the "presumption of innocence" or just throw rhett o rick Jul 2013 #18

I found Sirota guilty of jumping JoePhilly Jul 2013 #22

I believe in the presumption of innocence. onenote Jul 2013 #67

It sounds like you have a valid subject for discussion. I am not claiming to agree with what rhett o rick Jul 2013 #82

Don't you laugh when certain posters on this board claim they are "FDR Democrats?" nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #90

I laugh as well Yavin4 Jul 2013 #119

Sirota is talking about the 16 yr old al-Awlaki AND his father. NOVA_Dem Jul 2013 #75

Of course, to justify the righteous ridiculing and ad hominem. rhett o rick Jul 2013 #100

Exactly. Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #120

not heaven05 Jul 2013 #101

Yeah, exact situation... what a complete ass. kysrsoze Jul 2013 #3

Jumping the Shark, Part III frazzled Jul 2013 #5

Jumped a long time ago. ProSense Jul 2013 #14

The Declaration of Independence is a syllogism. ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #49

Or was he more like Hitler, wait was he worse than bush NightWatcher Jul 2013 #6

Jeezus H. Keryst on a trailer hitch, Sirota MrScorpio Jul 2013 #8

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #9

Here's a direct link to Sirota's column Electric Monk Jul 2013 #156

Wow thats some kinda stupid. GeorgeGist Jul 2013 #10

So he's calling Martin a terrorist? arely staircase Jul 2013 #11

That's the gist of it. Regardless of how someone feels about drones... AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #13

Was Al-Awlaki's son innocent or not? Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #121

One can make that argument, as they have many times, AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #123

Was disidoro01 Jul 2013 #127

Fair enough if we're talking about the father. Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #128

comparing Trayvon Martin to any terrorist is sick. nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #186

Do you know how to read? Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #187

But, Abdulrahman al-Awlaki palled around with terrorists! NuclearDem Jul 2013 #189

Yeah, very Palinesque answers in this thread. Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #191

a sick comparison arely staircase Jul 2013 #190

Appealing to emotion to dodge the underlying issue. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #192

To compare him to another innocent kid? Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #193

David Sirota appears to be a very stupid man. Whisp Jul 2013 #12

So you attack the person and ignore the discussion? nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #19

My thoughts too. Also, now Senator Franken, used to have him on his radio show Cleita Jul 2013 #36

Relentlessly Trashing Obama & His Listeners otohara Jul 2013 #202

ha, typical. nm Whisp Jul 2013 #129

Trayvon Martin joined Al Qaeda? Sirota is a very handsome moron. nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #15

That blog you link to is some McCrartyite crap. Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #16

So, in other words, Not Guilty Freddie Stubbs Jul 2013 #17

This thread is a great example of posters with no substance but only ad hominem comments that rhett o rick Jul 2013 #20

Sirota's comments are not worth substantive discussion. nt AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #21

So they tell me nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #23

That's the usual rationalization of those that are afraid to venture out and have rhett o rick Jul 2013 #42

Okay, how in your open mind is Trayvon Martin similar to Anwar Al Awlaki? nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #47

I would love to discuss this issue, but not with someone that isnt interested in anything rhett o rick Jul 2013 #61

I read what Sirota wrote. He claimed that Zimmerman was to Martin as Obama was to Al Awlaki. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #71

And you jumped to those conclusions without any discussion. rhett o rick Jul 2013 #88

I read his article. And it was every bit as ODS-soaked as it's being portrayed. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #94

More Ardent Supporters tend to come out during the workday leftstreet Jul 2013 #24

Are you saying Obama supporters are too lazy to get jobs? AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #30

Heavens no! I'm suggesting high rates of employment! n/t leftstreet Jul 2013 #34

... bunnies Jul 2013 #115

It was all the free stuff we got, according to Mitt--like phones and welfare. We don't need jobs!!! msanthrope Jul 2013 #35

It's always the people that feel the need to reaffirm their leftiness in their usernames. nt AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #38

Isn't that in their SOP of how to troll leftwing boards-- geek tragedy Jul 2013 #51

You've been here one week. Brewinblue Jul 2013 #176

Ever notice how the supposed leftists who do nothing but hate on Obama geek tragedy Jul 2013 #39

It's ODS on fucking steroids--using Trayvon Martin's body this time. nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #45

So now you're plagiarizing Mitt Romney's 47% speech for your trashy insults. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #37

wut? n/t leftstreet Jul 2013 #46

Not fooling anyone. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #48

The lunacy of his thoughts in this matter deserve....... NCTraveler Jul 2013 #25

I would be glad to discuss what he said but not with those that clearly find rationalizations to rhett o rick Jul 2013 #50

Then why didn't you? You chose to discuss posters rather than the OP. DevonRex Jul 2013 #102

thank you, Devon, for pointing that Cha Jul 2013 #160

It had to be said, as it's rather ironic, at best, for him to do what he whined about. DevonRex Jul 2013 #163

And, I think it's important to bring out Sirota's Cha Jul 2013 #164

Trayvon Martin wasn't declared a terrorist by the UN. Awlaki was. End of discussion, and Sirota msanthrope Jul 2013 #28

that article is about the father questionseverything Jul 2013 #105

Try reading Sirota's actual column...He calls the killing of Awlaki SENIOR 'extrajudicial.' Try msanthrope Jul 2013 #111

So, can we make the comparison regarding Al-Awaki's son? Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #122

No. Leave the using of Trayvon Martin to the likes of Juror B37. nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #132

So, we can't have that discussion? Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #133

No. You don't get to compare Trayvon Martin to a UN-designated terrorist and then pretend you have msanthrope Jul 2013 #137

Al-Awaki's son was a UN-designated terrorist? Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #139

Awlaki was--and that's who Sirota mentioned first. And Sirota, who was fired for racial dirty tricks msanthrope Jul 2013 #142

I don't care about what Sirota said. Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #145

Tell ya' what. The day Trayvon Martin's family decides to have that discussion, I'm there. Until msanthrope Jul 2013 #147

I'm not "using" Trayvon anymore than I'm using Al-Awaki's son. Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #149

Yeah--you are using people to "make a point." Sirota likened a UN designated terrorist to Trayvon msanthrope Jul 2013 #154

Again, I don't care what Sirota said, or about any other red herring you're introducing. Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #162

Right--because using Trayvon Martin as a point of discussion in a lunatic ODS rant is classy. nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #168

Who was ranting? Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #172

Al-Awaki's father caused his death Galraedia Jul 2013 #181

That is a very sorry argument. Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #185

Are you fucking kidding me? NuclearDem Jul 2013 #188

I'm talking about the fact that his father brought him there and allowed himself and his son to be Galraedia Jul 2013 #195

So every child that is brought to or lives in whatever "warzone" has been designated by the US NuclearDem Jul 2013 #198

HE WAS AROUND TERRORISTS WHEN HE WAS KILLED Galraedia Jul 2013 #199

Some would think that Trayvon shouldn't have been in a white neighborhood. Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #200

Exactly, msanthrope. "The day Trayvon Martin's family decides Cha Jul 2013 #161

And your post discusses POSTERS. You added nothing to the discussion DevonRex Jul 2013 #81

Truthy to Power? snooper2 Jul 2013 #104

What a doofus Dash87 Jul 2013 #26

Sirota's got integrity. Here's what he wrote re Tim Geithner vs Elizabeth Warren Octafish Jul 2013 #27

"Sirota's got integrity." So you agree with the fucked up comparison he just made? n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #29

That one never sees a fucked up comparison he/she doesn't like. nt AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #33

Sheldon, is that you? Octafish Jul 2013 #43

Why don't you quote the rest of what I wrote, ProSense? Taking things out of context is sad. Octafish Jul 2013 #41

He has no fucking "integrity" making this comparison. Also ProSense Jul 2013 #56

Sirota is an excellent reporter. Octafish Jul 2013 #62

He jumped the fucking shark. Can you see that? n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #66

Just because you say so? Octafish Jul 2013 #79

Here's his skis over the shark's fin geek tragedy Jul 2013 #113

You must have trouble with parallel structure. Some minds can't adapt. No problem. Octafish Jul 2013 #157

That is not true in all cases. nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #158

An excellent reporter wouldn't write that America is discarding "old ideals" about the presumption onenote Jul 2013 #76

No, he's not required to include what you want. Octafish Jul 2013 #92

No one is "requiring" him to do anything. However, I'll reserve the label "excellent" reporter onenote Jul 2013 #118

Look, I know you "strongly support Obama"... NuclearDem Jul 2013 #184

Sirota just compared a dead 17-year old the equivalent of a UN-named terrorist. He just shit on his msanthrope Jul 2013 #31

The president killing who he wants to is un-Constitutional. Octafish Jul 2013 #55

So after claiming I quoted you out of context, you're agreeing with the comparison? ProSense Jul 2013 #64

Again: I wrote what I wrote. Octafish Jul 2013 #69

Oh please. Sirota's comparison is lunatic, and your attempt at deflection is lame. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #83

He's got a right to state his opinion. Octafish Jul 2013 #86

And I have a right to call him out on his lunatic comparison. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #91

And that's the point, what makes us fucking different, ProSense. Octafish Jul 2013 #126

No ProSense Jul 2013 #136

Yes. You can fucking say what you want, ProSense. The OP can say whatever he or she wants. Octafish Jul 2013 #150

You ProSense Jul 2013 #152

Anwar Awlaki was not 16. He was a grown man, subject to the AUMF of 9/18/2001. His son was msanthrope Jul 2013 #68

Got a link for that? The president sent a drone to kill an American citizen without trial. Octafish Jul 2013 #74

I just gave you a link. Did you read it? msanthrope Jul 2013 #85

Nowhere in that article does it state what law gives Obama the authority to kill Americans. Octafish Jul 2013 #131

I just gave you the law. Try reading it. The AUMF of 9/18/2001. msanthrope Jul 2013 #134

Here's a PDF. Nowhere in that does it say the President can kill Americans without trial. Octafish Jul 2013 #138

Under the War Powers Resolution, enemy combatants can indeed be killed without trial. msanthrope Jul 2013 #151

Where in the War Powers Resolution does it say the president can kill Americans without trial? Octafish Jul 2013 #169

First, you keep saying 'American citizen' as if this means that Americans are entitled to rights msanthrope Jul 2013 #180

You just moved the goalposts. nt stevenleser Jul 2013 #174

Really? Where? Octafish Jul 2013 #177

Here's Elizabeth Warren: ProSense Jul 2013 #32

No, because my post was written by Sirota. Octafish Jul 2013 #59

And it has nothing to do with the OP. Nothing: Pure lame deflection. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #87

That's your term. I explained why I chose that article as an example of Sirota's work. Octafish Jul 2013 #171

This message was self-deleted by its author Cleita Jul 2013 #40

Anyone not rushing to condemn Sirota for these comments are highly suspect AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #44

This message was self-deleted by its author Cleita Jul 2013 #53

"Highly suspect" of having open minds. Rushing to condemn isnt a characteristic that rhett o rick Jul 2013 #54

"rushing to condemn" is something you do on a regular basis by smearing geek tragedy Jul 2013 #60

You should read the book, "The Authoritarians". I think you would find it rhett o rick Jul 2013 #70

Which part, the one where he blames Obama for innocent black people geek tragedy Jul 2013 #78

Everything isnt about Obama. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #93

Then why did Sirota bring him up???? nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #97

You were just asked legitimate questions about the analogy and refuse to answer them. KittyWampus Jul 2013 #98

I love how people defend Obama hatred and then come back with " geek tragedy Jul 2013 #103

Ad hominem! 1984! Obama's evil! This is not about Obama! Where's my meds? nt AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #107

Plez. "where he blames Obama for innocent black people getting killed by white racists? " rhett o rick Jul 2013 #112

He said that Martin's killing was part of a nationwide attitudinal shift geek tragedy Jul 2013 #114

Without sounding sarcastic, that's more like a real discussion. rhett o rick Jul 2013 #117

Agreed. Cheers. nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #124

We're talking about the frigging article that is about Obama. nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #99

He didnt say, "he blames Obama for innocent black people getting killed by white racists". rhett o rick Jul 2013 #116

We thank you for your vote anyway! snooper2 Jul 2013 #106

It's the people who collapse into convulsions of pure rage every time they geek tragedy Jul 2013 #84

So, people who disagree that Travyon=Anwar Al Awlaki are sychophants? geek tragedy Jul 2013 #52

This message was self-deleted by its author Cleita Jul 2013 #58

You're here bashing everyone in sight taking issue with Sirota's Obama-hating nuttiness. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #65

This message was self-deleted by its author Cleita Jul 2013 #89

Your reference to everyone in this thread as "sycophants" was meant geek tragedy Jul 2013 #96

This message was self-deleted by its author Cleita Jul 2013 #110

Right--because comparing a dead 17-year old who did nothing wrong to a UN-designated terrorist is msanthrope Jul 2013 #57

This message was self-deleted by its author Cleita Jul 2013 #63

And I have the free speech to compare Sirota to Juror B37--both using the corpse of Trayvon Martin msanthrope Jul 2013 #72

Ad hominem attacks aren't covered under the 1st Amendment? AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #73

"Free speech" is ProSense Jul 2013 #77

And we have a free speech right to call him an idiot if he's earned it. nt geek tragedy Jul 2013 #80

This message was self-deleted by its author Cleita Jul 2013 #108

Can't get much nuttier. rl6214 Jul 2013 #95

Even I find this repugnant n/t n2doc Jul 2013 #125

dog, but Sirota is skeevy. total sleazebag cali Jul 2013 #135

Poor, poor Sirota haters MNBrewer Jul 2013 #140

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #167

WTF , so he thinks Zimmerman was right in the assumptions he made about Trayvon JI7 Jul 2013 #143

Terrorist blow shit up and kill people. Rex Jul 2013 #146

Sirota actually compared Trayvon to a member of Al-Qaeda Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #155

What a fucking stupid article. Zoeisright Jul 2013 #165

Sirota's article is intruiging, to say the least. Laelth Jul 2013 #166

Absolutely stupid comparison. In addition, it is insulting for Trayvon Martin that is compared to a Mass Jul 2013 #170

Ahem stevenleser Jul 2013 #173

George Zimmerman killed the presumption of innocence (SIROTA article) Octafish Jul 2013 #175

I'm sure many here would prefer Cesca's dishonest characterization of Sirota's words MNBrewer Jul 2013 #178

You're actually ProSense Jul 2013 #179

Indeed stupidicus Jul 2013 #183

I said the same thing here: Bonobo Jul 2013 #182

no, you really, really didn't. cali Jul 2013 #201

That's some serious ODS, of the Stand-with-Rand Obama-is-worse-than-Bush variety ucrdem Jul 2013 #194

Cool, guilt by association. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #196

Could you spell that one out in more detail? ucrdem Jul 2013 #197