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alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)

23. This idea that some people "can't use" these words is also silly: anyone CAN use them

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:58 AM

Jul 2013

They just have different social effects.

If my brother walks into a room and says "Hey asshole" to me, I laugh and say "What's up, dick."

If a student walks into a classroom and says "Hey asshole" to me, something else happens (actually, I'd probably also reply "What's up, dick&quot . The student CAN say "Hey asshole" to me. But it will have far different social consequences for the student than it would for my brother.

Same word, two different social effects. And why? Because of social bonds, history, the character of the relationship. Everyone who uses language understands this. White folks CAN use the N-word anytime they want to, but they do not get to choose out of the social consequences for their actions. They do not get to erase the social bonds, history, and character of the social relationships in which they operate, anymore than the student can just CHOOSE to be my brother.

White folks wondering why so-and-so "can" use the n-word but they "can't" would be a bit like the student complaining that my brother can call me an asshole but he cannot: if your brother can call you an asshole, why can't I? Huh? Huh? Huh? Because it doesn't work that way, and YOU KNOW IT.

Anyone who pretends not to understand why the social consequences for Jay-Z using the n word are different than the social consequences for Paula Dean using it is a liar, and probably a racist. Because it is not a difficult concept. It is the exact same dynamic as my brother, who I love, calling me an asshole as opposed to a student or a stranger doing the same.

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As a white guy, I'm perfectly fine with the fact I can't say N______. Even if black people can. [View all] Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 OP

This old white guy agrees. Great post Tommy, thanks. Scuba Jul 2013 #1

Beautiful Post Tommy! JustAnotherGen Jul 2013 #2

Hey, there's a large and vibrant White American culture in this country! rrneck Jul 2013 #3

Also, I am not offended by the words "cracker" and "cracka" (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2013 #4

No black guy ever shouted "cracker" while whipping a white guy. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #6

I've had my ass kicked by black guys calling me a cracker cbdo2007 Jul 2013 #28

Cracker: (n) one who cracks a whip. ieoeja Jul 2013 #75

Actually the word is very old, derives from Craic (pronounced crack) which is a word Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #91

Was that ass kicking ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #102

Early 90's. I was one of about 10 white kids in an all black school.... cbdo2007 Jul 2013 #135

I grew up in Central Florida tavalon Jul 2013 #116

I'm glad your not, but it is a racial slur, actually tavalon Jul 2013 #115

The word "Nigga" is not the same AgingAmerican Jul 2013 #5

Even so, I still don't like using that term myself. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #7

I hope that you would also never use c--n, c--t, or f-g (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2013 #11

No, I don't use those words either. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #18

Interesting side story tavalon Jul 2013 #118

clit? snooper2 Jul 2013 #81

No, the clit is a good thing tavalon Jul 2013 #120

Wow, that was almost like a game tavalon Jul 2013 #117

I don't use that N-thing in any fashion Plucketeer Jul 2013 #66

'I can use this word, but you cant' does not advance relations markiv Jul 2013 #8

That's pretty silly, imo. noamnety Jul 2013 #16

who's 'we'? markiv Jul 2013 #21

It's a fallacy to believe discrimination ended with slavery. noamnety Jul 2013 #50

talk about missing the point markiv Jul 2013 #53

Perhaps I'm being polite in assuming that's not your point. noamnety Jul 2013 #59

unreasonable interpretation/twisting markiv Jul 2013 #62

It's really not twisting anything. If you're an outsider to an oppressed group, you don't get a say. noamnety Jul 2013 #64

That's a good comparison tavalon Jul 2013 #123

So, did Nelson Mandela have a specific position on that word's usage? tavalon Jul 2013 #121

They jokingly referred to each other as 'jarheads.' LanternWaste Jul 2013 #38

but even in your example, it's a choice of separation vs inclusion markiv Jul 2013 #41

It isn't black or white, the relationship is a grey one. Half-Century Man Jul 2013 #82

Very interesting tavalon Jul 2013 #124

How many dumb sentences start with, "I took a class once"? Half-Century Man Jul 2013 #129

So what I intuitively thought has actually been looked at tavalon Jul 2013 #134

I think the blacks are reclaiming the n word in much deafskeptic Jul 2013 #100

Of course that is the converse of what the OP said. n/t whopis01 Jul 2013 #94

And of course it is the duty of all black people to advance relations with whites. Chemisse Jul 2013 #97

Other way around actually, tavalon Jul 2013 #125

Lots of things don't advance relations. Like acquitting Zimmerman. Or Squinch Jul 2013 #103

k&r! nt alsame Jul 2013 #9

I don't understand what you mean by white people not having a culture. Neoma Jul 2013 #10

I think I get it. There is an Irish culture, Nye Bevan Jul 2013 #12

You have to be white to be considered Irish or Polish as far as I can tell. Neoma Jul 2013 #58

There's no shared common experience for White Americans. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #15

That's like saying being heterosexual isn't a sexual origination. Neoma Jul 2013 #19

correct azureblue Jul 2013 #25

As a white pipi_k Jul 2013 #13

Yes! Ignorance and stupidity are the cause-- what we often call "racism"... TreasonousBastard Jul 2013 #51

I grew up in a very ethnic neighborhood. femmocrat Jul 2013 #14

+1, this white guy fully agrees with you. eom tarheelsunc Jul 2013 #17

Great post Tommy skeewee08 Jul 2013 #20

Well said (nt) matt819 Jul 2013 #22

This idea that some people "can't use" these words is also silly: anyone CAN use them alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #23

Excellent examples TNNurse Jul 2013 #30

It really is that simple, isn't it? eissa Jul 2013 #56

Here's another example: moose65 Jul 2013 #69

I'm glad you made the point Mariana Jul 2013 #78

In short, the linguistic term is "in-group solidarity." Behind the Aegis Jul 2013 #110

Excellent post. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #122

It speaks volumes when clowns like limpballs say... RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #24

Limbaugh is a dumbass drug abusing pedophile tavalon Jul 2013 #126

On the one hand... RevStPatrick Jul 2013 #26

If black people want to take away the power of that word, they can. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #33

Who is the black comic who tried that on stage and admitted it didn't work... TreasonousBastard Jul 2013 #44

You haven't taken away the power if you still get mad depending on who uses it. dkf Jul 2013 #46

Don't all ethnic groups have terms caseymoz Jul 2013 #27

I don't think it's even just 'ethnic' groups anomiep Jul 2013 #37

'The other' team/group/person/nation/religion/creed/etc is always easy to 'classify' and AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #39

Great post ismnotwasm Jul 2013 #29

What a wonderful post TNNurse Jul 2013 #31

I know, EC Jul 2013 #32

As am I. It's one of the few words that makes me cringe. nt AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #34

Check out these ass hats. trusty elf Jul 2013 #35

typical heaven05 Jul 2013 #55

I get 12 months a year of 'white history month'. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #36

I really hope that some day... davidthegnome Jul 2013 #40

Me too, but it may be another few thousand years of evolution before we get there... TreasonousBastard Jul 2013 #47

Wow, that's optimistic tavalon Jul 2013 #127

I officially give up my right to call anyone derogatory names based on their ethnicity coldmountain Jul 2013 #42

+1,000,000! backscatter712 Jul 2013 #43

Exactly what I believe, the cringe worthy, racist term has been 'reappropriated' nenagh Jul 2013 #61

I'm using this the next time one of my older +60 friends uses the "N" word.... Historic NY Jul 2013 #45

I'm heaven05 Jul 2013 #48

This middle-aged white RURAL SOUTHERN female tosh Jul 2013 #49

There actually is/was a National Association for the Advancement of White People KamaAina Jul 2013 #52

When my sister was about 8 yrs. old she called a friend of my dad's a "bastard" loyalsister Jul 2013 #54

Where I grew up, "bastard" essentially means jerk or asshole. Myrina Jul 2013 #60

For some bizarre reason it is almost an affectionate term loyalsister Jul 2013 #84

Fine until your last sentence... TreasonousBastard Jul 2013 #57

Read through this thread and recognize how divisive the word is... dkf Jul 2013 #63

All of the derogatory terms to describe any group of people should be unacceptable AndyA Jul 2013 #65

Rush Limbaugh Seizes a Chance to Violate the N-Word Taboo AsahinaKimi Jul 2013 #67

Fools Rush In Blue Owl Jul 2013 #74

Rush has been practically begging to use the N WORD on his radio show.. AsahinaKimi Jul 2013 #76

In another few years, Whites will be a minority anyway.. HipChick Jul 2013 #68

And when whites' status changes from majority to plurality white privilege will totodeinhere Jul 2013 #73

They will die out soon enough.. HipChick Jul 2013 #83

Bookmarked to bring out the next time somebody whines Warpy Jul 2013 #70

K&R. I feel exactly the same way about it. forestpath Jul 2013 #71

Meh you can say whatever you want LittleBlue Jul 2013 #72

Do you have a point? nt Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #77

Even within the family, this is true-- my black relatives may use it but I never would carolinayellowdog Jul 2013 #79

For a hundred years after the Civil War blacks in the South were denied jobs off the plantations... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #80

White people still use it the same way they have for centuries. nomorenomore08 Jul 2013 #85

If someone wakes up in the morning JoeyT Jul 2013 #86

As an older blackman i was encourage not to BrainMann1 Jul 2013 #87

Not me Kelselsius Jul 2013 #88

I'm not fine with it. Hip hoppers tried to take the power from that word. valerief Jul 2013 #89

I'm white. And that word never enters my mind... ReRe Jul 2013 #90

I remember hearing it once. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #132

Dayam... Oh well, you can get her twice the next time. Otherwise, be nice. ;-) ReRe Jul 2013 #133

Another old white dude here. Great post. Thanks. cliffordu Jul 2013 #92

I'm Not White. White is a Color, not a Person Wolf Frankula Jul 2013 #93

Bravo ! treestar Jul 2013 #95

Well said, Tommy. 99Forever Jul 2013 #96

Great thread, Tommy. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #98

What you say is true. BlueJazz Jul 2013 #99

K&R and THANK YOU. MotherPetrie Jul 2013 #101

Brilliant Old and In the Way Jul 2013 #104

Tommy: publish this. Bertha Venation Jul 2013 #105

Low class word Redford Jul 2013 #106

i'll end the discussion. no one should use it ever, ever, ever. period, end of report! Nanjing to Seoul Jul 2013 #107

I take a bit of issue with "you look like fools." BobTheSubgenius Jul 2013 #108

Well, naturally. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #131

I forgot to mention.... BobTheSubgenius Jul 2013 #109

EXACTLY! blackspade Jul 2013 #111

Fuckin' A. Zoeisright Jul 2013 #112

Whitey here agrees. Except roody Jul 2013 #113

Well spoken tavalon Jul 2013 #114

K&R. Excellent post. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #119

Actually there certainly IS a "white American culture" Scootaloo Jul 2013 #128

As a white mom, I'm NOT fine with that word - lynne Jul 2013 #130