In a major way, it doesn't really matter whether Snowden released NEW

[ProSense]

28. Here's the problem,

"Now, Post-Snowden, we are paying attention...For that, we are in debt to Snowden and his supporters."

...to claim that Snowden's actions helped to focus attention on an issue is one thing. It's another thing entirely to claim that "we" should be "in debt" to him.

I don't buy into the notion that the only way to have focused attention on the issue was by leaking classified information in the way that he did, via distortions that tried to portray the program as something it was not, and then maintaining that he revealed "criminality."

Snowden's motives have always been suspect. While the debate is welcomed, his actions are still suspect. The fact that he created a circus with his international adventure, sparking international incidents, and injecting himself into the story throughout, shows that his motive was not a debate about the NSA domestic programs. His actions were idiotic and self-serving.

I'll repeat this point.

Bush's illegal spying was exposed in 2005 by Thomas Tamm. FISA has always been controversial and challenged by civil liberties groups and some lawmakers (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023009232). Criticism of Snowden's actions that led him to reveal U.S. state secrets to other countries and find himself stuck in Russia have nothing to do with anyone's opinion of the ongoing debate about NSA domestic program.

Don't expect people to overlook Snowden's actions overseas simply because there is an ongoing debate and renewed focus on the program. Not going to happen.

Snowden is a delusional and self-important clown. He and Greenwald (and their supports) have done everything to help make the story about them.

First, Greenwald announces that he has enough information to bring down the U.S.

Snowden follows by declaring he's immune to torture.

He's applying for temporary asylum in Russia.

Doesn't get any more bizarre than that. Well...

Edward Snowden Declares Himself Torture-Proof
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023275112

If Snowden's case as a whistleblower is so strong, why is he afraid to face the consequences?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023236549

Putin: U.S.-Russia Relations Greater Than Snowden

Russian President Vladimir Putin made it clear Wednesday that he holds his country's relationship with the United States in higher esteem than he does former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, Reuters reported.

When a reporter asked if the Snowden case would negatively affect a September summit between the U.S. and Russia in Moscow, Putin responded that "bilateral relations, in my opinion, are far more important than squabbles about the activities of the secret services," according to Reuters.

"We warned Mr. Snowden that any action by him that could cause damage to Russian-American relations is unacceptable for us," he added, as quoted by Reuters.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/putin-us-russia-relations-greater-than-snowden

"Personally, I didn't know anything about the extent of it, but I have generally been aware of the potential for my electronic communications to be stored & monitored, & have tried to conduct myself accordingly. I don't think I'm unique in that regard."

Knowing the "extent" of the program is not justification for Snowden's actions, especially those that compromised U.S. state secrets.

Not knowing the "extent" is not the same as not being aware of the concerns.

Wyden on Senate floor: FISA’s ‘general warrants’ are like the ‘Writs of Assistance’ the founding fat
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022081086

Senator Wyden (D-Ore.) calls for oversight of agencies that might be monitoring Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022081177

PATRIOT Act Being Used to Keep Super Duper Government Spy Operation Top Secret
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002440614

House votes to renew controversial surveillance law
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014228212

Obama signs FISA extension..5 more years.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022111527

There is clearly a disagreement about the program, but it was authorized by Congress. The "extent" of the program maybe in question, but there is still nothing illegal about it. That fact, together with fleeing the country and revealing U.S. state secrets, is why Snowden will not be considered a whistleblower.

Members of Congress have oversight of the program. It's good they're awake now, but I doubt that bodes well for Snowden.

Sen. Tester Calls On Snowden To Return To America To ‘Face The Music’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023281426