General Discussion

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)

216. There are lots of instances actually

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:15 AM

Jul 2013

15 feet is a very, very close range.

If a person is coming at you with a knife or other contact weapon, 15 feet is too close to allow then to get. Google "Teuller Drill" and watch some videos, we did those drills in our basic law enforcement training to show that an attacker with a knife at 21 feet will almost always be able to close with you and stab you before you can draw, aim and fire a pistol or taser.

I have seen self defense shootings during armed robberies at greater than 15 feet. Also in apartment hallways, a persons front porch, there are lots of examples.

But even if we toss the 15 foot thing out, the other limitations are pretty significant. I usually advise my students to get a good quality pepper spray that shoots a stream ahead of a taser- it will gain you a few more feet, it has more than one shot, and if the attacker is affected the results last longer. But it has downsides as well- it does not affect all people, it can blow back into your eyes, and if you use it from inside your car against an attacker trying to get in you must lower the window and you will be affected to the point driving away will be difficult.

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If you carry a concealed gun, you are the problem [View all] Hugabear Jul 2013 OP

..... Kurska Jul 2013 #1

LOL nt Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #6

^^^ +1 discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #63

thank goodness you have no power to make that decision. galileoreloaded Jul 2013 #2

They can't get over their fear... Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #3

Carrying a gun is not murderous pintobean Jul 2013 #5

What else do you do with a concealed gun? Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #8

"A wild firing range appears!" Liberal Veteran Jul 2013 #11

Unarmed people are killed without notice all the time. pintobean Jul 2013 #12

Is there anyone out there who should NOT be able to "increase their chances of survival"? VOX Jul 2013 #22

"as long as they're doing it legally" pintobean Jul 2013 #42

Then they are indeed afraid... Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #34

We all have fear. pintobean Jul 2013 #108

Having fear and letting it dictate your actions are different things Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #115

Never start a food fight in a Mexican restaurant. nt. pintobean Jul 2013 #127

I propose that trying to increase one's chance of survival with concealed firearms DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #88

I've never seen someone shot or been shot at. Dash87 Jul 2013 #315

"Open up on random firing ranges that wander by?" ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #31

Well, that's what I see wandering by when using this ammunition: Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #145

That's some fine ammo. nt ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #146

I'm ready to kill at a moment's notice. Daemonaquila Jul 2013 #44

Seek help - nt Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #45

carrying a gun wouldn't make a difference? BainsBane Jul 2013 #54

A gun's very existence demands its own use... VOX Jul 2013 #17

Zman would never have taken off after Trayvon without a gun to bolster his courage. Hoyt Jul 2013 #19

There's only one person who knows pintobean Jul 2013 #48

It's true of him, and most who need a gun to venture out. Hoyt Jul 2013 #56

Don't you know guns are instruments of love? BainsBane Jul 2013 #15

What kind of coward is so fearful they can't go about their lives without a hidden weapon. leeroysphitz Jul 2013 #4

What about a person who has been raped or physically attacked in some other way? ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #32

Then they need help laundry_queen Jul 2013 #96

So, maybe we make some accommodations for rape victims, etc., but that's a small Hoyt Jul 2013 #110

Got it... Once you've been raped.... Pelican Jul 2013 #151

The 94% who don't carry, have rights too. Problem is most who carry are callous bigots, Hoyt Jul 2013 #169

And you base this on? Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #179

You might be an exception, but I've lived in NC and know the kind of folks who tend to tote. Hoyt Jul 2013 #184

More likely you know the kind Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #185

Yeah, we had another person who posted here -- also an "instructor" -- that used to say same things. Hoyt Jul 2013 #186

What you believe is irrelevant to what the law is Hoyt. nt. premium Jul 2013 #189

That's what we are talking about, Premium, bigoted gun laws that need to be changed. Hoyt Jul 2013 #200

Female advertising in re; firearms is quite common. Decoy of Fenris Jul 2013 #190

From right wing gun sites, yeah. But manufacturers tend to play up to male self-esteem issues. Hoyt Jul 2013 #199

I just did a quick google of "Female advertising for guns." There's quite a lot of them in general. Decoy of Fenris Jul 2013 #202

Finally, a gunner who admits that most gun "enthusiasts" tend to be right wing (hence bigots). Hoyt Jul 2013 #205

Misrepresenting what someone posted again Hoyt? premium Jul 2013 #206

Seriously? Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #213

I think you meant to reply to Hoyt. nt. premium Jul 2013 #214

Nope Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #217

Ahh, ok, I get it now. premium Jul 2013 #219

You gun nuts can't tell if you post to right person, yet you are prepared to shoot on city streets. Hoyt Jul 2013 #247

No. 1 Hoyt, I'm not a gun nut, premium Jul 2013 #254

Too bad your fellow gungeoneers don't feel the same. Maybe you should talk to them rather Hoyt Jul 2013 #257

Sorry, not my place to tell others premium Jul 2013 #260

RIF Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #258

You know *only* the kind of folks you've encountered-good, bad, or indifferent. friendly_iconoclast Jul 2013 #288

10s of millions of callous bigots... Pelican Jul 2013 #183

You cannot possibly know how most of a group that numbers in the millions thinks. friendly_iconoclast Jul 2013 #289

Well your buddy Decoy says the majority are right wingers -- and they are definitely bigots. Hoyt Jul 2013 #302

Decoy didn't make that claim-and if he did, it's an argument from authority friendly_iconoclast Jul 2013 #304

Misrepresenting again, eh Hoyt? premium Jul 2013 #305

That's my question... OneGrassRoot Jul 2013 #195

Tazers don't work worth a shit premium Jul 2013 #197

There is a reason cops don't carry just tasers Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #204

Tell me Lee-Lee, how often would a normal citizen need to shoot someone at more than 15 fee on Hoyt Jul 2013 #209

There are lots of instances actually Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #216

I'm all for pepper spray. Guns, not so much since you can't take that bullet back. Hoyt Jul 2013 #218

Happens alot huh? premium Jul 2013 #221

Saw lots when I was a deputy Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #233

I did too, but Hoyt's talking premium Jul 2013 #238

I am glad you can predict the future behavior of all criminals Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #225

I suspect you could have handled without "drawing," but hey if you carry a gun why not use it. Hoyt Jul 2013 #227

Now you are a self defense expert too.. Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #231

He'll tell you to throw a can of beans or use a bicycle tire to defend yourself. nt. premium Jul 2013 #235

You ought to try it, Premium, rather than your guns. Hoyt Jul 2013 #248

That's funny Hoyt, premium Jul 2013 #255

I do too, and see no need to spend my life preparing to shoot someone a la Zimmerman. Hoyt Jul 2013 #256

Interesting, in post #218 above it was a knife, now it's a gun. Hoyt Jul 2013 #237

My error Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #245

From this expert, a staff is quite effective against one wielding a knife. Not as "sexy" as a gun, Hoyt Jul 2013 #246

A staff? Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #251

Works for some sarisataka Jul 2013 #264

Let's not forget this guy. premium Jul 2013 #271

Once again, you tout mandatory "abstinence-only" instruction. friendly_iconoclast Jul 2013 #292

These "in-your-face" abstinence-only instructors would be paid, amirite? friendly_iconoclast Jul 2013 #294

Many here purport to have telepsychological powers. friendly_iconoclast Jul 2013 #290

Thank you Lee-Lee premium Jul 2013 #212

Well, that kind of stuff doesn't happen often to John Q gun toter on the street. But, it's nice to Hoyt Jul 2013 #220

Not fanning the fear, premium Jul 2013 #222

I admit, never had job of busting small time pot growers in national forests, but I've walked many Hoyt Jul 2013 #226

Small time pot growers? premium Jul 2013 #228

Tell me about it Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #232

Maybe people who don't carry guns don't want to be a victim either Major Nikon Jul 2013 #203

My bottom line is my family. leeroysphitz Jul 2013 #240

Another type of coward... pipi_k Jul 2013 #33

Correct. Incitatus Jul 2013 #55

Are you sure they are "the problem"? Socal31 Jul 2013 #7

Do you have stats they aren't a problem, or are setting us up for trouble Hoyt Jul 2013 #142

Yes, I have "Future stats" Socal31 Jul 2013 #153

With some issues you have to use commonsense, rather than stats. Hoyt Jul 2013 #168

Because those pesky stats keep messing up the narrative. friendly_iconoclast Jul 2013 #297

Do you care to show me stats indicating proliferation of guns will not cause issues in future? Hoyt Jul 2013 #301

I can't show stats that you wont be conked on the head by a meteorite, either. friendly_iconoclast Jul 2013 #303

When empirical evidence contradicts "common sense", then... Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #300

Voltaire would have scoffed reading post #168 friendly_iconoclast Jul 2013 #306

So much for that whole Enlightenment thing... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2013 #307

LMAO - like strapping lethal weapons to your body is enlightenment. Hoyt Jul 2013 #309

Probably a lot more, unfortunately. The NRA has spoken. MotherPetrie Jul 2013 #9

bullshit... ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #10

yup, a country full of gun nuts is fucking bullshit Skittles Jul 2013 #14

Since half the USA are gun nuts, the other half decided to get ARMED LaydeeBug Jul 2013 #272

yup - that is the NRA's wet dream Skittles Jul 2013 #310

The NRA's wet dream is the USA's bleak reality LaydeeBug Jul 2013 #313

Why is my donco Jul 2013 #13

So you admit to being a law-breaking BainsBane Jul 2013 #16

sure do. donco Jul 2013 #18

No need BainsBane Jul 2013 #21

Who said it was donco Jul 2013 #25

all the gungeoneers constantly go on BainsBane Jul 2013 #38

Its good donco Jul 2013 #70

Why should that matter to me? BainsBane Jul 2013 #86

Your the one donco Jul 2013 #114

You didn't make that claim BainsBane Jul 2013 #116

OK we got my breaking donco Jul 2013 #124

Actually, carrying concealed without a permit is only a misdemeanor in most jurisdictions. LAGC Jul 2013 #118

Please explain why you feel the need to be packing a gat... VOX Jul 2013 #24

I am a person who has had a random stranger attempt to carjack her in the past Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #36

Zman, Loughner, Holmes, Stawiki, NRA prez' son, etc., were all legal. Hoyt Jul 2013 #23

I can see the Autocorrect :-) FunkyLeprechaun Jul 2013 #161

Thanks. Sometimes I get gum or gin for gun. Hoyt Jul 2013 #164

most likely sweetapogee Jul 2013 #180

Damn Skippy! nt MrScorpio Jul 2013 #20

So what percentage of murders are committed by people carrying concealed guns? hack89 Jul 2013 #26

How many dead children are acceptable to you? Hugabear Jul 2013 #27

So you have no clue do you? hack89 Jul 2013 #28

Well then I suppose the solution is more guns Hugabear Jul 2013 #29

Now you are just being silly. nt hack89 Jul 2013 #119

not silly.... ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #166

Here you go BainsBane Jul 2013 #60

Which doesn't answer the question hack89 Jul 2013 #120

a greater percentage than from people who don't carry guns BainsBane Jul 2013 #130

If so many are looking for trouble hack89 Jul 2013 #162

Not many involve actual conceal carry it seems. aikoaiko Jul 2013 #30

No fair confusing the hand-wringers with facts. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #37

over 500 killings by CCW holders BainsBane Jul 2013 #39

Perhaps, but how many of them were actually carrying concealed when they committed aikoaiko Jul 2013 #79

All were CC holders BainsBane Jul 2013 #83

500 killings over 8 years really isnt that much.... aikoaiko Jul 2013 #98

So those lives don't count? BainsBane Jul 2013 #103

But 500 homicides our of 150,000 shooting deaths over 5 years... aikoaiko Jul 2013 #117

See this BainsBane Jul 2013 #107

How about subtracting the sucides from that list? nt hack89 Jul 2013 #125

Oh right. The lives of suicide victims don't count BainsBane Jul 2013 #131

The OP is about concealed carry and murder. Please stay on topic hack89 Jul 2013 #163

Over 120 of thoe were pure suicides. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #170

They have to pad their numbers some way. nt hack89 Jul 2013 #172

Utter horseshit. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #35

then provide evidence of that BainsBane Jul 2013 #41

Nonsense. They are only verifiably less likely to be convicted. Robb Jul 2013 #43

An example? Useless. A verifiable statistical body? Knock yourself out. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #49

Concealed carry permit holders are excellent at beating the rap. Robb Jul 2013 #51

Didn't think you could answer the actual question. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #68

8 times less likely to be arrested, 5 times less likely to be convicted. Robb Jul 2013 #106

That study was flawed. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #173

You've been given evidence but choose to ignore it BainsBane Jul 2013 #61

And *you* ignore the fact that you're dealing with a group of +10 million friendly_iconoclast Jul 2013 #296

Teh stupid... DanTex Jul 2013 #53

Are you saying Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #87

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #92

No Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #99

The argument is based on statistics. DanTex Jul 2013 #105

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #40

"Yeah, you would, if you were informed and sincere." Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #47

And that wraps up yet another culture war chapter. Thanks. Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #148

When the thousands of people with illegal guns stop killing joeglow3 Jul 2013 #46

More guns to stop killing... Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #52

Ask trayvon Martin how your theory worked out joeglow3 Jul 2013 #58

And if there had been no guns? Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #62

I want to be able to defend myself joeglow3 Jul 2013 #65

So until you feel 100% safe you want the right to kill when you are afraid... Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #73

Resorting to personal attacks says a lot joeglow3 Jul 2013 #76

I'm not attacking you... Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #90

I am not an arrogant asshole joeglow3 Jul 2013 #94

I don't look down on gun nuts... I feel sorry for them having to live with all that fear Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #111

Why do you assume only someone living in constant fear joeglow3 Jul 2013 #128

We are discussing those who do the concealed carry Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #132

try to think like a gun humping coward, Ohio Joe Skittles Jul 2013 #320

Bad Choices warrant46 Jul 2013 #178

It's a time-honored business model. Robb Jul 2013 #59

Exactly, it's all about corporate profits BainsBane Jul 2013 #64

Hmmm since you don't seem to be replying much may I suggest these images: The Straight Story Jul 2013 #50

I made my point Hugabear Jul 2013 #97

Well, I dunno The Straight Story Jul 2013 #113

The statistics say you folks not carrying guns are a bigger problem... Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #57

What is your source? BainsBane Jul 2013 #66

The charts are from "thetruthaboutguns.com" DanTex Jul 2013 #69

and she refused to read an article from Mother Jones BainsBane Jul 2013 #71

Ohh, I read them Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #74

That you justify it doesn't mean you know about it BainsBane Jul 2013 #80

I cite all kinds of sources Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #85

You hid your source BainsBane Jul 2013 #91

Your post is all emotionally driven Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #95

If you don't plan on killing BainsBane Jul 2013 #102

Maybe English is not your first language Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #112

Why are you so afraid? Nevernose Jul 2013 #122

The numbers they are based on are accurate Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #75

Of course they are! They came from a right-wing gun blog! In a nice bar chart! DanTex Jul 2013 #82

LOL. So you get your research from "thetruthaboutguns.com"? DanTex Jul 2013 #67

They cite the statistics back to a NYT article, so the numbers come from there Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #72

Mother Jones has a cleared history of skewed statistics, by "thetruthaboutguns.com" is legit? DanTex Jul 2013 #77

No Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #81

You checked them yourself? Really? Ooh, I'm impressed! DanTex Jul 2013 #84

Attacking a source? BainsBane Jul 2013 #78

But we do have Zimmermans in our streets. Hoyt Jul 2013 #165

The exception is not what you should base policy on Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #171

Bigots carrying guns is a totally different issue from social programs. Hoyt Jul 2013 #174

hit.nail.head Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #263

They use Zimmerman like anti-abortionists use Kermit Gosnell. friendly_iconoclast Jul 2013 #299

MMM graphs & charts olddots Jul 2013 #211

I don't carry, but I'm very comfortable with those that legally do. badtoworse Jul 2013 #89

RKBA does not have to mean concealed carry. For many years it did not. n-t Logical Jul 2013 #93

Marriage does not have to mean same sex, for many years it didn't Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #100

RKBA is not impacted without CC. n-t Logical Jul 2013 #104

I agree. The point in my mind is making major changes in law over one incident badtoworse Jul 2013 #101

I agree. NaturalHigh Jul 2013 #249

Guns kill people donja know. ileus Jul 2013 #109

ROFL krispos42 Jul 2013 #121

hundreds a year BainsBane Jul 2013 #134

The illegal drug trade directly results in thousands of deaths a year. krispos42 Jul 2013 #135

The OP is about Zimmerman BainsBane Jul 2013 #138

And you're responding to ME krispos42 Jul 2013 #140

Such a strange disconnect BainsBane Jul 2013 #143

Your comment was based on your excessive extrapolation of my comment krispos42 Jul 2013 #147

You're using world wide stats now? ieoeja Jul 2013 #223

Try this out krispos42 Jul 2013 #234

Hunter is in a bad mood. He will take guns from cowardly idiots, and he will not give them back. hunter Jul 2013 #123

Watch out! Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #126

Mr. Lincoln Arc Welder is hungry. hunter Jul 2013 #129

Riiiiiight. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #210

Like this guy. hunter Jul 2013 #215

Ooooo! He's gonna do it with a computer, too! Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #149

Mr. Lincoln Arc Welder is hungry. hunter Jul 2013 #191

Ooooooooooh, an internet tough guy. premium Jul 2013 #188

Mr. Lincoln Arc Welder is hungry. hunter Jul 2013 #192

Uh Huh. premium Jul 2013 #194

post 196 hunter Jul 2013 #198

And......................................? premium Jul 2013 #201

CC permits are a big problem, but it does not follow that cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #133

Zimmerman is a paranoid cop wannabe LittleBlue Jul 2013 #136

If that is the case sarisataka Jul 2013 #137

Is it legal to bring a gun into a public library? BainsBane Jul 2013 #139

Yes, libraries are legal sarisataka Jul 2013 #141

"to choose to bring a gun to such a scene is the height of stupidity" BainsBane Jul 2013 #144

In the context of sarisataka Jul 2013 #152

You needed a gun at a library? Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #154

Nope, not at all sarisataka Jul 2013 #155

So you risk an accident just on the off chance of being able to kill someone? Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #156

I have been around firearms personally and professionally sarisataka Jul 2013 #157

You were playing with a child... In a library... With a loaded gun... You consider this responsible? Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #158

Handing a child a book is hardly playing sarisataka Jul 2013 #159

Yes... Playing kickball with children and a loaded gun is irresponsible... Was that serious? Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #160

He never said he was playing with a child with a loaded gun, premium Jul 2013 #193

Yes- serious, now read the whole thing sarisataka Jul 2013 #250

Yeah, I read the whole thing... Cop... Loaded gun... Playing kickball with children... I got it Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #266

I was thinking you had misunderstood sarisataka Jul 2013 #270

The way I look at this... Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #284

While not something I would choose to do sarisataka Jul 2013 #293

Well, all this fear-projection by the controllers has made me sleepy. Night y'all. Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #150

73 CC deaths a year, seven years, .00002% of gun crime, 1 : 4,794,520 odds against. Decoy of Fenris Jul 2013 #167

That's probably enough to drive the Heart Of Gold pintobean Jul 2013 #175

Comparably: Same odds of 7 card Straight Flush, probability of 0.00000021% per person. n/t Decoy of Fenris Jul 2013 #187

What are odds you need a gun on a typical city street? Hoyt Jul 2013 #224

I know the bet. pintobean Jul 2013 #239

1 in 514,147. Ten times more likely than death by concealed carry. Decoy of Fenris Jul 2013 #252

I suppose if you are doing illegal things in high crime areas. Rather than preparing to shoot Hoyt Jul 2013 #259

Nah, that's just the countrywide average for both stats you asked after. n/t Decoy of Fenris Jul 2013 #267

There's your problem, you should not use countrywise averages when determining if you need a gun to Hoyt Jul 2013 #269

There's YOUR problem premium Jul 2013 #273

Did not intend to respond to you or Rand Paul. Hoyt Jul 2013 #279

Rand Paul? premium Jul 2013 #280

LOVE IT! n/t ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #243

Precious, my precious.... JimDandy Jul 2013 #176

NO. We are part of the solution. Legal concealed carry saves innocent lives. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #177

Sure. Trayvon's murder is now counted as a gun saving Zman's worthless life. Hoyt Jul 2013 #182

Missed by a mile wercal Jul 2013 #181

You can read how fearful these gun owners are in their replies to this thread. hunter Jul 2013 #196

Only if you think "telepsychoanalysis" has the slightest value. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #208

I don't have a CCW permit, Jenoch Jul 2013 #207

Flamebait. And typical. Bake Jul 2013 #229

Yes and somehow we're the hysterical and emotional ones Just Saying Jul 2013 #230

Anyone calling CCW permit holders "part of the problem" is pretty obviously... Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #261

Average what? Just Saying Jul 2013 #265

You don't have that right out in public or private businesses premium Jul 2013 #274

I live in a state where private business can and do make it illegal to carry on their property. Just Saying Jul 2013 #278

Same here in Oregon...and that's a very good law. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #281

Anything is possible Just Saying Jul 2013 #285

Average Americans, obviously. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #275

I can look at your and other's "evidence" Just Saying Jul 2013 #282

*shrug* Suit yourself. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #283

And I'll continue to not live in fear Just Saying Jul 2013 #286

Me, too! Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #287

Anyone who carries a concealed weapon is a potential murderer, IMO. Apophis Jul 2013 #236

So is most anyone else. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #241

Anyone who owns a car is a potential drunk driver, premium Jul 2013 #242

which reminds me of an idea I have sweetapogee Jul 2013 #276

Hmmmmmmmm. premium Jul 2013 #277

Carrying a gun raises the potential to be a killer. Apophis Jul 2013 #291

exactly! sweetapogee Jul 2013 #311

Your first statement is true. Your second is nonsense. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #314

The only reason anyone would carry a gun on their person would be to kill. Apophis Jul 2013 #316

I already explained why that's wrong. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #317

The point of my post obviously went over your head. Apophis Jul 2013 #318

Not even close. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #319

Exactly!!! The problem isn't the people who rob, kidnap, rape and murder other people, hughee99 Jul 2013 #244

^^^I saw what you did there.^^^ premium Jul 2013 #262

Huzzah! jpak Jul 2013 #253

Not in Sanford, Florida, where the sidewalk makes it a fair fight. LaydeeBug Jul 2013 #268

Why don't you work on the gun violence in Chicago rl6214 Jul 2013 #295

The problem is in Chicago? Not anywhre an unarmed teen is murdered? Ohio Joe Jul 2013 #308

If concealed carry is "the problem", hughee99 Jul 2013 #312

Stereotype much? Omnith Jul 2013 #298

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #321

Blatant sexism always does SO much for an argument. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #322

Paranoia is a sickness B Calm Jul 2013 #323