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onenote

(46,139 posts)

63. still waiting for you to show a case in which the duty to "avoid conflict" means what you claim

Reply to uponit7771 (Reply #58)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:29 PM

Jul 2013

But don't worry, I'm not holding my breath.

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Here's Florida�s Next Trayvon Martin Case [View all] BainsBane Jul 2013 OP

Under SYG Mike Dunn WILL...> WILL go free because the jury will NOT be able to deliberate on uponit7771 Jul 2013 #1

Dunn would first have to prevail in a SYG hearing BainsBane Jul 2013 #2

Zimmerman didn't CLAIM SYG protection ... it was in the jury instructions and the jury... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #3

I agree Punkingal Jul 2013 #5

Man, you get all the smiley points etc if that could be found out. Why did the judge include them in uponit7771 Jul 2013 #8

Because SYG has rewritten FL self defense law in general BainsBane Jul 2013 #9

Well the media sure did a hell of a job explaining that... Punkingal Jul 2013 #11

This is all predicated upon the CLAIMS of juror B37 AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #46

Not true BainsBane Jul 2013 #52

Again, it does not matter. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #54

To pretend SYG had no effect on this case BainsBane Jul 2013 #55

That's not what I said. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #56

I believe the jury instructions are part of the court record BainsBane Jul 2013 #60

Actually, we agree on several points. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #64

Okay, I'm sorry I misunderstood you BainsBane Jul 2013 #75

I have used him as a poster child for what not to do. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #76

I agree with that BainsBane Jul 2013 #79

Yes, but AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #81

I think the prosecution should have more consistently argued that from the start BainsBane Jul 2013 #82

I agree. I think adding the manslaughter charge later on AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #83

I didn't know he was on Adderall BainsBane Jul 2013 #84

Adderall and Temazepam AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #85

Goes together BainsBane Jul 2013 #86

No, they didn't. Manslaughter is included in COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #103

Yes, actually they did. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #105

I don't find anything in the WSJ article COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #106

The problem with arguing that the incident began when Zimmerman first spotted Trayvon onenote Jul 2013 #89

Isn't it true that in some states the defendant must prove BainsBane Jul 2013 #90

The prevailing rule these days is for the burden of proof onenote Jul 2013 #93

Thanks for the info. nt BainsBane Jul 2013 #96

Yes SYG changed Florida's self defense law. But those changes probably did not impact the outcome onenote Jul 2013 #65

Sounds to me like there is no real need for SYG then BainsBane Jul 2013 #87

As I've said, I'm not a fan of SYG. I think the common law duty to retreat is a better approach onenote Jul 2013 #92

In some states, there was an explicit duty to retreat. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #98

The lawyer here explains it well BainsBane Jul 2013 #99

This is false, the "DANGER" arose when Z called TM "scary" NOT NOT when TM started bashing uponit7771 Jul 2013 #111

Link? onenote Jul 2013 #113

...to what? That Zimmmerman indicated he was afraid of TM?! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #116

Wrongo. I've asked you multiple times to back up your claim of what it means to "avoid conflict" onenote Jul 2013 #118

So GZ didn't say he was afraid of TM?! Were you watching the same trial?! And tons of words does uponit7771 Jul 2013 #119

And once again you fail to back up your misreading of the law onenote Jul 2013 #121

Because its part of the self defense law. onenote Jul 2013 #13

good points BainsBane Jul 2013 #7

even by that standard he is sunk dsc Jul 2013 #19

its going to be interesting. if you read up on the story okieinpain Jul 2013 #28

They didn't "leave the scene" joc46224 Jul 2013 #37

as i said its going to be interesting. n/ t okieinpain Jul 2013 #39

Nope, he's going to jail. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #45

You have a fundamental problem with COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #102

Unfortunately I think Dunn will go free Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #4

YEAP that's the way SYG is written because, like in the Zimmerman case, the jury can NOT deliberat uponit7771 Jul 2013 #6

Despite the efforts of many over an extended period of time, you still don't understand the law. onenote Jul 2013 #14

unfortunately "reasonable person" generally means white jurors BainsBane Jul 2013 #15

That would be the case whether Florida has enacted SYG or not wouldn't it? onenote Jul 2013 #18

a strong case? BainsBane Jul 2013 #25

a strong case that the common law duty to retreat didn't apply onenote Jul 2013 #26

What fear could he possibly claim? BainsBane Jul 2013 #32

I don't think he had a reasonable fear onenote Jul 2013 #36

Okay BainsBane Jul 2013 #41

How can one not be a threat in their unreasonable minds? lunasun Jul 2013 #23

There's no use talking to someone COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #104

That doesn't allow you to imagine a shotgun that doesn't exist. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #48

The two cases aren't all that similar. Captain Stern Jul 2013 #10

They are VERY familiar in the terms of SYG. All that is needed is a threat "in your mind..." uponit7771 Jul 2013 #12

A person can claim that "in their mind" they believed the victim was a vampire onenote Jul 2013 #16

...or claim that their head was being bashed in and nothing but scrataches on his head uponit7771 Jul 2013 #38

And what is your point? onenote Jul 2013 #42

I've said it multiple times; "there's no standard for reasonable REALITY" uponit7771 Jul 2013 #112

And you still aren't stating the law correctly. onenote Jul 2013 #114

"everyone" has the Zimmerman trial results. Everyone who is a rational person can see Z didn't have uponit7771 Jul 2013 #115

The law (and not just in SYG jurisdictions): onenote Jul 2013 #117

You can't just imagine a shotgun and claim SYG. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #49

according to Z trial a person doesn't have to have proof of injury just proof that an injury uponit7771 Jul 2013 #108

I agree Zimmerman is not a credible witness. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #110

Except SYG had nothing to do with the Zimmerman case. Donald Ian Rankin Jul 2013 #107

It was in the jury instructions, Z didn't have to claim SYG uponit7771 Jul 2013 #109

+1 This guy is toast. nt Dreamer Tatum Jul 2013 #17

I trust nothing when it comes to Florida juries now Blue_Tires Jul 2013 #22

exactly. n/t. okieinpain Jul 2013 #29

I wish it were just Florida BainsBane Jul 2013 #53

That's pretty much it right there Scootaloo Jul 2013 #78

lat's try to remain positive like you for now lunasun Jul 2013 #24

Does Concealed Carry classes include telling shooters what to say after the sinkingfeeling Jul 2013 #20

I think they are people who are afraid to begin with BainsBane Jul 2013 #21

That is what makes it extra scary lunasun Jul 2013 #27

agreed BainsBane Jul 2013 #34

depends naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #31

pretty much NatBurner Jul 2013 #33

Except the victim wasn't black BainsBane Jul 2013 #35

nope! NatBurner Jul 2013 #43

I remember this case BainsBane Jul 2013 #44

Mr. Martin was not stealing anything. He was walking + minding his own business. lunasun Jul 2013 #69

There is less evidence to support self-defense, and more witnesses to the homicide... aikoaiko Jul 2013 #30

Even if Zimmerman had witness's, due to jury instructions, it wouldn't matter... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #40

Given your extensive research and expertise in this area onenote Jul 2013 #47

Zimmerman case, I already did...Zimmerman didn't even have superficial wounds, he had scratches that uponit7771 Jul 2013 #57

Well, you certainly are a stubborn one onenote Jul 2013 #62

I admire Niceguy1 Jul 2013 #101

Your conclusion of what SYG means is flawed. Sorry. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #50

..NO it's not, there's no duty to retreat and there's no duty to "avoid conflict" either in that ... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #58

still waiting for you to show a case in which the duty to "avoid conflict" means what you claim onenote Jul 2013 #63

I already did...regards uponit7771 Jul 2013 #70

no you haven't. onenote Jul 2013 #73

Again, AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #67

That's NOT what the jury accepted, people READ THE JURY INSTRUCTIONS they could NOT ... NOT uponit7771 Jul 2013 #71

And the fact that he was being SAT UPON factors into that reasonable apprehension, in the jury's eye AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #72

You couldn't be more wrong if you said the moon was made of green cheese. onenote Jul 2013 #74

But if Zimmerman had grabbed or tacked TM, it could have been different. aikoaiko Jul 2013 #51

GZ had superficial wounds, there was little to no evidence that he was getting his head bashed in... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #59

GZ didn't have to be beaten badly for that evidence to support his story. aikoaiko Jul 2013 #61

You're right, he only had to fear "IN HIS MIND" that he WOULD WOULD get beat badly... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #66

absolutely a reasonable person could fear that their head was going to be bashed in onenote Jul 2013 #77

His head was no longer on the concrete when he shot Trayvon. I do not believe a "Reasonable" person SeaLyons Jul 2013 #91

FWIW, I agree with you. onenote Jul 2013 #95

"IN HIS MIND" is wrong. That is not the law. cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #94

not quite --- there's a reasonable person standard to be met. aikoaiko Jul 2013 #97

Quite the recent spate of strange and bitter crops... LanternWaste Jul 2013 #68

Not very similar madville Jul 2013 #80

The big difference here is that it will be provably UNREASONABLE cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #88

I hope you're right BainsBane Jul 2013 #100

Is the location a factor? joeybee12 Jul 2013 #120

Jacksonville has come a long way Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #122

Thanks...I didn't know much about the city... joeybee12 Jul 2013 #123

Jax exploded in population Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #124