General Discussion

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)

119. Actually he wasn't fleeing, he was living in a country with a government that has proven itself

Sat Dec 17, 2011, 05:00 PM

Dec 2011

more than willing to cooperate with the US Government, even to the point of allowing the US to bomb its own country while lying to its people and pretending THEY did it.

Sorry, but these powers given to the US PResident by the Bush gang were a huge problem then, and not just because it was Bush, but there is no greater power a government can have over its people than to give one individual the right to order the killing of its citizens without even filing charges. This should and does scare the hell out of people who care anything about this COUNTRY. I thought this was clear during the Bush administration and didn't really need to be argued on the left of all places.

I'm sure the Bush supporters who defended it back then, who I know I reminded about the probability of a Democrat once day using those powers, are probably regretting their unquestioning support for giving the POTUS or anyone, the powers of a king right now.

This is not about this one individual case, nothing ever is, it is about undermining the very foundation of this country.

You are telling me this guy was guilty, of something, and you are taking it on faith because a Democrat is in the WH. Did you take Bush on faith when he had these powers? But I see nothing to back that up, nothing of substance, other than 'our guy is in the WH so we have nothing to worry about'.

I don't take anything on faith. I have seen no list of charges in this case or in the case of the teenager. I have seen 'we are the good guys and he was a bad guy' kind of arguments. Sorry, I believe our Constitution is the best way to run a country. And to say we have to abandon it for the great, and mostly phony WOT? What does that say? That you don't trust a system we are taught is the best in the world suddenly?

I want our elected leaders to abide by the laws of THIS land and the treaties they signed internationally. If that makes me a traitor, which I was certainly told often enough when Bush was president, then I disagree, sorry.

But I never thought I would be arguing this way on the 'left'. This is the biggest shock to those of us who stood up against Bush when it was often not easy to do. That now we are making the same arguments to those WE thought were also opposed to those anti-Constitutional Policies. This is a shock frankly and is causing people to have to rethink everything they thought they knew.

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I'd Like To Apologize To DU... [View all] WillyT Dec 2011 OP

If you had posted a single positive thing about the President geek tragedy Dec 2011 #1

Well, he might want to apologize to the truth, for so often mangling and destroying it. nt TheWraith Dec 2011 #3

OMG, my fingers were mere seconds from typing something similar Number23 Dec 2011 #7

And next week it will be yet another exercise in ott jefferson_dem Dec 2011 #15

I see DeathToTheOil Dec 2011 #31

You said it. secondwind Dec 2011 #92

OP gets small props for packaging the same "I don't like the POTUS" message in a different wrapper. CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #115

You Mean Voting For Him Wasn't Enough ??? WillyT Dec 2011 #9

You had an accountability moment in '08 noise Dec 2011 #10

No. It required more. Jakes Progress Dec 2011 #43

yep because every democratic president since the begining of the country has okieinpain Dec 2011 #67

Well. It's good to see that you finally understand. Jakes Progress Dec 2011 #95

dang it i forgot the sarcasm thingy okieinpain Dec 2011 #133

me too. Jakes Progress Dec 2011 #134

That was naive. randome Dec 2011 #59

are you keeping track? nt G_j Dec 2011 #70

Obama does something, Outrage comes out ... Never a Miscommunication. MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #73

3 Big Positives: Lilly Ledbetter, DADT repeal, two seemingly solid SC justices... ihavenobias Dec 2011 #90

Bingo! The winner. The OP has NEVER posted ANYTHING positive about President Obama. nt bluestate10 Dec 2011 #108

Re-#Occupy begins the 17th. Fire Walk With Me Dec 2011 #2

+100000! SammyWinstonJack Dec 2011 #4

Can we look forward to the Obama 2012 DUers UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2011 #33

wtf? Capn Sunshine Dec 2011 #111

I meant the ones who post here. UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2011 #112

To be fair, we all hoped to see the president truly stand up against this egregious Bush era sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #5

The President and his secret panel noise Dec 2011 #8

I did not know that Brittany Spears was a DUer MattBaggins Dec 2011 #16

I didn't either, can you point her out? Not a fan, but sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #101

Nah not you MattBaggins Dec 2011 #109

Lol, yes, I remember that ~ sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #110

Correction....they demand our unconditional trust. ooglymoogly Dec 2011 #102

Actually the person you are refering to who was killed might well still be alive cstanleytech Dec 2011 #88

Actually he wasn't fleeing, he was living in a country with a government that has proven itself sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #119

If anyone is telling you he is guilty its him in the many videos he kept filming cstanleytech Dec 2011 #120

Turn himself for what? Do people who have not been charged with any crime, generally just walk into sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #121

Actually you are right cstanleytech Dec 2011 #122

Actually ProSense Dec 2011 #6

I had a friend tell me if he did not veto this Mojorabbit Dec 2011 #12

At THIS Point... If The President Signs It, It May Be Decided By The Supreme Court... But... WillyT Dec 2011 #13

Please explain 'why' and 'what' in the bill would be decided by the Supreme Court. Tx4obama Dec 2011 #35

Certainly not someone sulphurdunn Dec 2011 #69

I read a lovely article on it earlier today. Mojorabbit Dec 2011 #84

Which could very well be what he wants since if he opposed it the onus would be on him cstanleytech Dec 2011 #89

Apology accepted. But don't let it happen again. styersc Dec 2011 #11

Good gracious. jefferson_dem Dec 2011 #14

And You Call Yourself A... WillyT Dec 2011 #19

Zee mask is off zee monster a simple pattern Dec 2011 #17

The true nature of the beast......rare footage indeed...thanks Magoo48 Dec 2011 #78

Welcome to the under-the-bus club! Odin2005 Dec 2011 #18

Proud Member !!! WillyT Dec 2011 #20

pretty soon ignore will be back and it wont be so much of an endurance feat xiamiam Dec 2011 #23

:) WillyT Dec 2011 #24

+1 Sherman A1 Dec 2011 #37

Here ya go! hifiguy Dec 2011 #48

Thank You Kindly Sherman A1 Dec 2011 #53

I always counted you as a member....I was surprised you ever counted yourself among the tpsbmam Dec 2011 #41

The 'my president, right or wrong' crowd is definitely riding in the bus, I prefer under the bus. RKP5637 Dec 2011 #71

How about some Teddy Roosevelt? Mnpaul Dec 2011 #105

Yep, I love it too, it's excellent and very appropriate. IMO we should always question the RKP5637 Dec 2011 #106

I'm seriously considering getting a tattoo of Javaman Dec 2011 #51

I can't wait for election season to officially begin...nt SidDithers Dec 2011 #21

I Feel Your Pain... WillyT Dec 2011 #22

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #26

I'm pretty sure those "critics" will silence themselves...nt SidDithers Dec 2011 #27

What do you expect to happen? joshcryer Dec 2011 #29

= "I have no substantive rebuttal to your OP." nt Bonobo Dec 2011 #34

Why? Can you say honestly you will vote in that election? Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #45

LOL... SidDithers Dec 2011 #46

La La La La La .... LiberalLovinLug Dec 2011 #83

Hotlink fail... SidDithers Dec 2011 #85

He who lives in mirrorless houses……. 12AngryBorneoWildmen Dec 2011 #47

"...the President ... is an ignorant and bigoted fool" rinse, repeat. and repeat. and repeat. dionysus Dec 2011 #63

I've been there WillyT slay Dec 2011 #25

Think a lot of people thought the veto threat was to protect people, rather than executive power. DirkGently Dec 2011 #28

The best way to protect civil rights is to avoid war bhikkhu Dec 2011 #30

It declares America a part of the "battlefield" MedleyMisty Dec 2011 #40

No worries, mate pscot Dec 2011 #54

"nothing the bill provides for is worse than what was done before" ... Oh REALLY??? bvar22 Dec 2011 #77

That may be the worst defense for FDR's internment of Japanese-Americans onenote Dec 2011 #80

....And your post may be the Worst Strawman EVER posted at DU. bvar22 Dec 2011 #94

It is sad that I have to come to the defence of FDR even to another ooglymoogly Dec 2011 #104

Comparing FDR, a legally elected president, ooglymoogly Dec 2011 #113

NO, WillyT! Zorra Dec 2011 #32

So much for closing Gitmo Jim_Shorts Dec 2011 #36

Great post malaise Dec 2011 #38

Great post, WillyT MissDeeds Dec 2011 #39

"Make No Mistake: I pledge to never use these powers to imprison Americans MannyGoldstein Dec 2011 #42

And job creators. Jakes Progress Dec 2011 #44

Free WillyT! slackmaster Dec 2011 #49

I hear ya boomerbust Dec 2011 #50

No need... welcome to the real Underground! fascisthunter Dec 2011 #52

I WANT MY IGNORE FEATURE BACK PLEASE n/t sharp_stick Dec 2011 #55

FYI, it's back! go into a users profile and the ignore button is back. dionysus Dec 2011 #60

Wow! I didn't know that you could be unquestionably true to Democratic principles and post this. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #56

When do we get the ignore feature installed on DU3? Ian David Dec 2011 #57

it's back.. open up a posters profile and there's an ignore option. dionysus Dec 2011 #61

Thanks! n/t Ian David Dec 2011 #64

i've been told the button is there but non functional yet.. hope i didn't get your hopes up. dionysus Dec 2011 #76

Good Lord! Read the actual bill as passed! Unca Jim Dec 2011 #58

I did read the bill "as passed" SomethingFishy Dec 2011 #81

the melodrama.. runs deep. dionysus Dec 2011 #62

I deeply regret not emigrating when I had opportunities in my 20s and 30s Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2011 #65

the audacity! nt G_j Dec 2011 #66

make that unionworks Dec 2011 #68

This slipped between sulphurdunn Dec 2011 #72

Yup, he gave up any chance to be great and settled for "marginally better than them" mistertrickster Dec 2011 #74

The FDR who illegally rounded up and imprisoned tens of thousands of Americans NYC Liberal Dec 2011 #82

Could you imagine what DU would be like if FDR were president today... SidDithers Dec 2011 #93

A lot of us wouldn't have time to worry about posting on the internet mistertrickster Dec 2011 #99

I knew someone would mention that. Apples to oranges. mistertrickster Dec 2011 #98

Pearl Harbor did not justify illegally imprisoning over 100,000 Japanese Americans NYC Liberal Dec 2011 #107

Of course . . . I'm not arguing that it was justified. mistertrickster Dec 2011 #116

And some of (or more likely, a lot of) the people at Guantanamo are actually terrorists. NYC Liberal Dec 2011 #117

My point was not about the indefinite detention. It was about Obama blowing his chance to be great mistertrickster Dec 2011 #118

I read it as exempting U.S. citizens from being required to be detained indefintely mvd Dec 2011 #75

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #79

alert got root Dec 2011 #87

& 2nd-ed. nt mistertrickster Dec 2011 #100

Why? Why won't it happen again? mmonk Dec 2011 #86

Have you found the Higgs Boson? RoccoR5955 Dec 2011 #91

CERN likely did find it. girl gone mad Dec 2011 #97

How could Anatos Dec 2011 #124

I resent that statement. RoccoR5955 Dec 2011 #125

Dennis Kucinich Anatos Dec 2011 #126

I believe that you should look at Kucinich a bit closer. RoccoR5955 Dec 2011 #127

Too long, but I read it anyway. Anatos Dec 2011 #128

Addendum Anatos Dec 2011 #130

A few points. RoccoR5955 Dec 2011 #131

First of all Anatos Dec 2011 #132

Here's a quote for you: RoccoR5955 Dec 2011 #135

Right back at ya, Guy. Anatos Dec 2011 #136

This message was self-deleted by its author Itchinjim Dec 2011 #96

I have tears in my eyes Generic Other Dec 2011 #103

KR Excellent post WillyT to the consternation of many. eom ooglymoogly Dec 2011 #114

Go cry in your soup in a corner Anatos Dec 2011 #123

So which candidate do you think is in agreement with all your views? Honeycombe8 Dec 2011 #129